mls1

An interesting update - the bossy advancement chair resigend her position quite abruptly last week. No explanation given. My husband thinks it's because she was essentially aced out of our son's discipline process. However, I reminded him that she had, after all, said she would not continue once her youngest reached Eagle; his project book is at Council and in the lineup for review prior to Eagle BOR so maybe she's just making good on her earlier promise.

Thankfully, we heard this evening that the wife of the travel coordinator has volunteered to take over advancements. She is a very nice person, organized, friendly, etc. - and she has a disability that makes it difficult for her to participate in anything but family camp, so this is a great opportunity for her to help out. I am really glad to hear she is stepping forward. Hopefully this will help things take a turn for the better!

It is definitely difficult.....this person has been involved in Scouting lcoally for a long time, so most people assume she knows what she's talking about. And most people also figure if she'll take on the work, then they don't need to worry about it, they should just be grateful.

She has said that when her youngest son reaches Eagle she'll "retire" from Scouting. He has finished his project and is ready to submit his book for EBOR, so we'll see if she makes good on this. Those of us who've been in this town for a while (this isn't the only organization who's had to deal with her) have to secretly wonder if she can really go without someone/something to control, but we'll see.

The CC doesn't really feel a need to get any more training, so far as we can tell. I think the DE has figured this out and will be gently nudging the CC and the SM to attend some more training. Also, I think having several parents alternate at the Roundtables might increase the pressure for more training, not to mention more participation in Council- and District-level activities.

Yes, our DE has been a Scouting professional for over 30 years. He is very good. He would be a great legal mediator.

OldGreyEagle - that is one of our FAVORITE movies. There's something awfully funny about Genghis Khan swinging a baseball bat to decapitate a mannequin in a sporting goods store, while Beethoven rocks out on multiple keyboards three stores down.

Would that everyone would be excellent to each other...

We and our son had a very, very helpful meeting this afternoon with the SM, CC, and the DE.

The SM presented us with all the information he had either collected or been given about the incidents. Much of it was conflicting, some of it was hearsay, and some was misinterpretations. The DE deftly guided us to look at the allegations, hear what our son had to say, and find a resolution. Our son does have a couple of things to do so as to make this into a learning experience. The DE suggested that our son be the one to start off an instructional series in the troop - he will give a short talk on "some things have happened recently that don't comply with the Scout Law" and teach the Scouts what they SHOULD do in certian situations. I like this approach - it kind of turns things on their head (a typical adult would ask is this the right person to be saying this?), and I think our son will be respected for standing up to say it.

We also talked about issues with how things are handled in the Troop, and the DE offered lots of suggestions on getting people involved and ways to handle discipline. He mentioned having the boys put together their own code of conduct, based on the Scout Oath and Law - they decide the rules, they are the first line of enforcing the rules, and they end up with more ownership of the whole process - and by extension, move a little further down the road to a boy-led troop.

The DE also suggested that if the SM or CC couldn't get to the Roundtables, then send a parent or other leader. We all came up with the idea of having this be a rotation - someone different goes each month, and hopefully that will plant some seeds for folks to get more involved.

All in all, it was a very productive meeting. The SM and CC agreed to keep the discussion confidential - the Committee need know nothing more than the matter is settled. They won't be told the details of anything that was discussed. We all agreed that the gossip mills were out of control and this would be a good way to stop them.

So our son will do these "acts of service" and start on his Eagle project construction. I feel good about the SM's and the CC's cooperation and commitment to helping our son; if the advancement chair makes any trouble, you have all given me great ideas on how to keep track of things and to whom we might speak if necessary.

I know our son feels much better and at ease, and is ready to get started. Thanks for your help!!

Thanks for spinning this thread, Beavah. This is very helpful. I agree that training is a starting point, and that BSA stuff can be pollyanna-ish in terms of avoiding the hard questions.

This reminds me of my church worship work - the best worship, and in a parallel sense, BSA work - occurs when people check their egos at the door and put the greater good first. But egos are mighty demanding things, and seem to always be hungry!

So I would add to the Sayings List, "It's NOT about you!" I'll have to remember to ask our DE if that is emphasized in training in our Council.

Crew 21, thanks for your response. You bring up important points. I agree that our son threw his own rock in his Eagle road, and he must deal with that fallout. I think he should definitely be held to a high standard of showing Scout spirit before he's able to submit for EBOR.

Of course, I'd like to see all the boys in the troop treated the same. How the SM handles issues is spotty and varies widely from Scout to Scout.

Our son has behaved very well at Scouts (at least by our observation), and apparently this incident in December was unknown to everyone until all the supplies were removed from the onsite shed to go back to the Scout shed at the CO property. So that's why we're confused as to these other incidents, that only surfaced after SM broke confidence about our son's actions. The SM hasn't been willing to give us specific details, but has only made vague comments about "I'm deciding what the punishment will be". Problem is, he's been saying that for 2 months. So it's really now blown way out of proportion.

My hope is that we can clear the air and assess the situation with the DE present and just move on. Unfortunately, because it's been allowed to go on so long there are some pretty hard feelings floating around, so we do have a tough task.

Beavah, the charges are some squirrely behavior at a troop fundraiser last December. SM asked the boys in January to tell him in private if they were responsible and it would be kept in confidence and handled. My son - whose conscience is apparently in good repair, thank heavens! - went to SM immediately after the meeting, said he was responsible for part of it, and asked to make repairs immediately. He has not been given an opportunity to make the repairs (a key is required).

Unfortunately, SM did not keep the confidence, and the advancement chair got wind of it at the next Committee meeting. That has basically led to a rash of 2nd-and-3rd-hand reports, all of which my son has denied. I am not sure how these reports surfaced.

We told his teachers at school to let us know if anything was amiss, given that his dad is fighting cancer. No problems at school, and his teachers had glowing reports at the end of the term. So we are skeptical that any of this troop drama is true - but we want the air cleared so the boys can work to build a better troop. They are really trying, and the new SPL is doing a good job - now the adults just need to get out of the way!

Thanks for your thoughts and advice. We'll see how tomorrow's meeting goes.

Hmmm, I wonder who the CC submitted as COR on the new charter? Those of us who have read through the Troop Committee Guidebook and other BSA references know she doesn't have authority to approve or disapprove such things, but she does it anyway. People who have stood up to her in the past have found their sons' advancements getting held up, so no one stands up to her any more.

Thanks for your info. We've told our son to make sure he keeps his nose exceptionally clean and obeys the Scout law to the letter. We've also told him over and over, as long as you've done the right thing, always tell the truth and obey the Scout law, you're in the clear and don't need to worry about other peoples' issues. Easier said than done, of course.

We are thinking that the DE will get quite an earful at this meeting this week - hopefully it will effect some change.

Hello, I am new to the Forum. This seems like a great place to get ideas and help, and exchange information. Here's our situation:

My son's troop is dealing with a controlling personality, she's the advancement chair. She and her husband have been able to oust THREE Scoutmasters over the last 6-7 years and we've lost many Scouts due to her meddling.

Our problems vis-a-vis organization are similar to many others in this forum. Our CO (Presbyterian Church) is in the middle of a pastor search, and is bogged down in that church's national argument about human sexuality (congregational split is likely) - so even if they were involved with us (they aren't at all) they have many things demanding their attention right now.

We have no COR (advancement chair rejected the last one). No UC. (My DH was UC, but they didn't want to hear what he had to say and ran him out.) The SM has had only the minimal training he could get at Summer Camp. No other adults have taken any training other than YP, and were very hostile to my husband and a former ASM when they tried to get people to training.

This advancement chair basically decides how she wants things to be throughout the troop, and if the committee or scoutmaster stray from that agenda, she tells them why it won't work, or makes up some policy or rule. Many times we've double-checked and found the rule or policy she is "quoting" to be completely different or non-existent. The CC and SM figure since she's been doing this for some years she must know what she's talking about, and they do what she says to do.

Her current target is our son. He and her son had an argument a couple of years ago (yes, YEARS) and the boys have long since made up their differences and moved on. Apparently, the adults in the situation aren't as mature. Anyone who doesn't jump when she says jump is basically harassed until they leave the troop voluntarily, or she sees to it that "charges" are brought against the Scout so that he is removed. The charges pending against our son, according to the SM, are 2nd and 3rd hand reports. It should be noted that (1) no Scoutmaster conference with our son has EVER taken place to discuss these allegations; and (2) we weren't notified of any problems until several weeks after they allegedly occurred.

The CC and SM will not stand up to her, and have refused to get any real training. The SM has told us for the past 2.5 months that he "is deciding on the punishment" for our son, even though he hasn't followed anything resembling Scouting guidelines so far in the entire situation. My husband is fighting cancer, and we are stunned that this can even occur given our life situation right now, but people are strange sometimes. Last week I insisted on a meeting with the SM and my husband and I - SM agreed, then in a last-minute e-mail said the CC would have to be present. We replied that if he wasn't able to meet with a Scout's parents without someone else present, then there wasn't enough trust to meet at all without someone from Council present to mediate. So we have a time scheduled this week with the DE coming in as mediator.

The troop meetings have been poorly organized and boring - the new SPL has one meeting under his belt and is doing a much better job, but it's still an adult-led, lecture-style meeting. We parents are just as bored as the kids! But since no one has any training - no one knows how great the program can be.

Is there any hope here? My son's Eagle project is approved, and he is about to start construction, but he is hesitating because he's afraid the Committee will stall his progress to Eagle BOR. He likes the kids in this troop and doesn't want to switch.

We are hoping that this week's meeting will be a major eye-opener for the DE, so he'll finally know the extent of this dilemma.

Any ideas or suggestions? We have been Scouting devotees since our son came up from Webelos, but this kind of melodrama sure takes the fun out of it.