mikeb

I was hoping to call scoutstuff by now but it hasn't happened yet so I'm looking at next week now. The belt is for my son, maybe I should see if he notices before going any further. Heck, he might dig on the upside down thing!

I received a box of World Jamboree goodies ordered from Scoutstuff yesterday and when I put the Jambo buckle on the Jambo leather belt I found that the buckle was made incorrectly, the logo is upside down! The only other option is to run the belt around the waist the opposite way, but then the lettering on the belt would be upside down. Anyone else have one of these? Is yours the same? I will be calling them next week to see what they say about this.

Update: New scout and dad attended our troop meeting this week, so with an ASM we pulled them aside for a friendly chat about the peanut allergy. It seems that dad and mom are recently separated/divorced and dad isn't very clear on the extent of the allergy! He was generally unable to answer questions on the boy's reaction level to peanut vapor/contact/ingestion, although he did say he has been involved in 3 incidents that required a trip to the hospital. The most recent involved eating chocolate chip cookies made in a factory that also handles peanuts. The boy on the other hand was able to answer all of our questions and it sounds like there is serious trouble only when peanuts are ingested. We told the dad we need a full medical report with painful detail of the peanut allergy. As a side comment I mentioned to the dad that we have a couple of other boys with tree nut allergies and he said his son does too! I told dad that he would likely have to come to all campouts with his son and keep a close eye on him. Dad said he likes to camp and that won't be a problem. I told the boy he would probably have to cook his food separate from his patrol on his own personal gear. He seemed ok with that.

One other thing I almost forgot, I asked if the boy carries Epipens. The answer, "all of the time!" So I asked to see them, "Oh we forgot to bring them tonight." I asked that they remember in the future.

I can't say I'm feeling a lot better about this. We'll see what the doctors report says and go from there.

Thanks everyone for all of the great advice and info thus far, you have given me so much more than I expected. Interestingly enough I did a site search for peanut allergy before I started this thread and I found very little on the topic, although from this thread it seems like it is something that a lot of folks are dealing with.

Anyway, from the advice given I think my first step should be finding out the reaction level this boy has. How we go forward is certainly dependant on that.

I have to believe this is a common thing, my troop is getting a new scout with peanut allergies. I don't think he's so bad that the smell will do him in, but injestion is bad bad bad. This is a new one for us, so I'd like to hear from others with this situation how they are handling it.

My initial thought is that I really don't like the idea of a peanut ban. Peanut butter, trail mix, energy bars, etc., all staples of scouting. How do we balance keeping our staples while keeping him healthy?

*sigh* I suppose I'm the guy with the "tone." Truthfully I am as big a softy as anyone else here. I have taken my fair share of scouts on trips when I knew they really shouldn't go. The difference though is when I make those choices it's only when I am certain it won't negatively impact the other scouts experience. Generally this involves having the backup of extra leaders who can attend to the issue or the ability to call the parents to come and help. I would never allow an unprepared scout on this type of trip.

And so we have this outing. These scouts have worked hard to be ready for this special trip and to take an absolute newbie remains in my mind an unacceptable risk. A badly sliced finger while learning the skill of pocketknife use, a boiling pot knocked over on himself or another scout while learning to use his new backpacking stove, having to be carried out because of dehydration or any other new guy medical issue, wandering away and getting lost or hurt, etc., etc., etc. These are things not exclusive to younger scouts, these are things that new scouts do. Any of these things could end the trip immediately. These and so many more. Let the boy join and enjoy the regular trips, don't chance ruining the special trip.

I have to disagree with the thought that this young man can engage in some sort of get-ready-quick-program that would make him unquestionably ready for a trip of this magnitude. There are aspects of hiking, camping, and working together as a group that nothing but lots of experience can teach you. The safety aspect alone would be enough to scare me away from bringing him.

Telling this young man that the group has worked very hard to make sure they are prepared for this special trip and that he is welcome to join and work hard to be prepared for the next one is the right thing to do both for him and the group.

I think you're asking the wrong question. Who cares about the insurance? That's a petty non-issue. The questions you should be asking are:

What will I do when this new scout gets a half mile down the trail and decides he wants to go home? (For any of a multitude of reasons.)

What will I do when this new scout of unknown ability is crippled with blisters (or some such thing)?

What will I do when we discover this new scout doesn't get along with others or doesn't bring the right gear or brings something he shouldn't or wanders from the group or etc., etc., etc.

Maybe I'm being too dramatic but here's what I see: On one hand you have a group that is ready for this trip and it will be a great trip with them. On the other hand you have this new person of unknown ability who thinks he would like to go. Yes he's older but he's still just a new scout. Would you take a brand new scout on this type of trip?

The big question is: Should you take a chance on wrecking this trip for the group by including him?

I say no. Tell him he can join and earn his way into being included in these types of things because that's the way it's done. If it's too late because of his age that's a shame, but it's the right thing to do for the group.

Our commissioner originally told us the 100% segments were for the scouts who completed all of the other segments. Then a few days ago we got an email from him saying they were for the adult leaders. By the time he sent out his email it was already pretty apparent from other sources that was the case. Now I see there's a possibility you are supposed to sew three on in a circle around your Jamboree patch, which to me borders on the ridiculous. Who knows what the real deal is?

Hey, menu guys, feel free to move your menu discussion to a new thread...

Back to the program award segment, in addition to Mantooth's observation that 3 of the 100% segments look good around the Jambo patch now I see an auction on eBay where someone is selling 3 of them together with the assertion the official story is to sew them all on. I suppose that would explain why we were given 12 of them, but why 3 segments that are all the same instead of a single ring or 3 segments with different designs and maybe different requirements to wear? Again I sure would like to see something in writing from National to make this official. Has anyone seen any official info on this?

Well I certainly did my part in giving the segments out quite freely and it irks me to think that now I have to recollect the 100% rockers so I can redistribute them to my fellow adult leaders. Unfortunately my commissioner was very convincing, he told me the decision to give out only a dozen of the 100% rockers per troop was based on the experience of few youth earning them in past years. It didn't sound like something he made up on his walk to my campsite, but I know there is an overabundance of people out there who boldly present whatever they think up as fact.

I can't believe that national BSA put nothing in writing for us to reference, that is as they say "dropping the ball."

TwoCub, can you please provide a little more info to support that? Bold statements are nice but it was a bold statement maker that first said they were for the scouts.

We had 13 troops attending. I've only spoken with 2 other SM's though but they received the same info I did. Maybe it was the commissioners goof if it was in fact a goof, but I'm thinking with the number of patches they gave us the goof came from higher up.

Well that would certainly solve the riddle of why it fits the adult patch, but it's odd that they would give us a dozen of them for just 4 leaders. It was our commissioner who gave us the patches and the explanation, but I can see where this could easily get confused somewhere down the line. I looked on the BSA Jambo site but didn't find anything about it there. They do have a small article about the other six segments.

Has anyone else noticed that the 100% Program Award segment is sized to fit the adult Jamboree patch? I put it up against the youth patch on my sons uniform and discovered it is too wide of an arc to fit correctly. So I put it up to mine and it fits perfectly. What gives? We were told it is for scouts who completed all 6 of the activity segments and we were given a dozen of them so they surely weren't meant for the adults. Is this simply a mistake in design?

I predict that very few signaling mb's will be earned.

Hi NeilLup,

Looking at the camping requirement you see it is three-fold:

"The youth must have experienced fifteen days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The fifteen days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps."

Breaking it down:

1. The youth must have experienced fifteen days and nights of Boy Scout camping.

-and-

2. The fifteen days and nights must include one long-term camp approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America.

-and-

3. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.

If you go to "BSA Camp Beverly Hills" and they are sleeping in luxury cabins does that not qualify? Regardless, the remaining non-long-term days and nights fall under the mysterious "Boy Scout camping" category.

Perhaps they left it vague with the intention that each campout would be judged on its own merits, but it sure would be nice if they at least spelled that out. I have a fellow leader who is stuck on the "tent camping is all that qualifies" wagon, and it's just one more irritation than I like to have.

"But it's up to the Scoutmaster (not the lodge) to determine if the candidate has met the requirements. If the SM views cabin camping as ok, then it's ok. End of story."

That's exactly what I said last year. I guess part my difficulty with this is why is it so important where you spend 6 to 8 unconscious (sleeping) hours? Also there are things to be learned particular to whatever type of camping you are doing, so isn't a variety better?

And just to clarify, when I say "cabin" camping I don't mean some resort type place. For instance last summer at scout camp we had "cabins." They had windows but no glass, doorways but no doors, and wooden bunks no better than a wooden tent platform. Like an Adirondack they were more open to the weather than a good tent. And speaking of Adirondacks, in what category should one put them?

I guess I'm wondering why Troopmaster discriminates at all. It just leads to disagreement and confusion.

Looking at the OA membership qualifications you have the camping requirement - 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping, etc., etc.

We do a lot of different camping - tent, Adirondack, cabin, laying on the ground, etc. I like the think variety is good and it would all count towards the OA requirement.

The kicker is, when I ask the gal who keeps the information vault known as Troopmaster for the OA eligibility printout, it separates the camping into "cabin nights," and "OA eligible nights." What's the deal with that?

The OA guide book offers no help that I can find defining exactly what a night of Boy Scout camping is.

So here's the question: What exactly is Boy Scout camping? Should it be separated into tent and cabin with the cabin nights being discarded, or is Troopmaster just another flawed and/or outdated software program?

If you're looking for youth election requirements they are on page 20 of the book "Guide for Officers and Advisers" which can be downloaded here if you know the admonition:

http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/

The book has a wealth of other useful info, as do some of the other books available on that page.

So was it the youth in the chapter that decided this? Was it the adult advisors? I find it very interesting that any chapter could believe they hold the ultimate power to create such a rule. It seems very "Lord of the Flies." What's next? Staking candidates to ant piles? Call in the Marines. Really.

Beavah - I love your YP comment. On a personal level I find the whole YP thing just short of offensive. Last year at camp us adults were told we couldn't go on the astronomy over-nighter because they didn't have the manpower to enforce YP. I held my tongue but man that burned me up inside. So your observation that Scout(ers) aged 18-21 lead a double YP life further adds to the ridiculousness of the whole YP program. I suppose this is a topic for a new thread though.

SWScouter - Think of this, any person who joins as a 21+ Scouter can attend a few campouts and be eligible in exactly the same way you describe. Why pick on the 18-21 folks? Because they can hold youth offices, perhaps? Maybe an alternate requirement is in order?

Hi SR540Beaver,

I don't know if you are aware of it but you centered your response around Scouters aged 21+. The folks I refer to are in the 18-21 age group and aren't categorized under the adult rules. Rather they are lumped in with the 11-17's. At this point the new-ish Scout(er) of 18-21 has no ability to fulfill the youth requirement of First Class.

As far as to why a new-ish person would be elected perhaps it's a new Troop, and/or perhaps this person has shown remarkable character. I imagine plenty of young boys come into troops and a year or two later have met all requirements and get elected. Aren't they "new" Scouts? Thus my question is why not the same opportunity for all considered to be in the "youth" category?

Again I have nothing invested in this, I just brought it up as a point of interest and wondered if anyone has ever seen this situation first hand. Thanks for your comments though, passion for Scouting is a good thing!

If one of the requirements for youth membership in the OA was to hold a valid drivers license but they still advertised it as a program for 11-21 year olds most folks would be left shaking their heads in disbelief. It's the same thing for an 18-21 year old who's new to Scouting. These folks have no ability due to age restriction to meet the 1st class requirement but the pretense is that there's no issue. Granted it's probably not an issue in one in a million elections but I was just wondering if anyone has ever run across this situation and how it was handled. From what's been posted thus far it seems it's "too bad 'till you're 21."

Hmmm, so no specific rule for the 18-21 new Scout(er) crowd? That seems like an odd hole in a pretty good selection system. I would be interested in hearing the official explanation regarding this.