BadenP

The scout did nothing wrong or illegal, a border patrol officer is not an undercover agent in any way so it is not illegal to take their picture They are little more than security cops whose duty it is to verify identities and citizenship and if there is reasonable cause can search for contraband. They can arrest and detain only if the ID is questionable or a person is hiding something illegal. That officer for drawing down on a kid for such a minor act should be terminated, they are better trained than that.

It is sad to me how many OA lodges in my council and my former councils have bit the dust or are no longer active anymore and the total lack of concern by the councils executives. IMO the OA has seen its apex and has been in a steady decline for the last 15-20 years. The boys really seem to care less after they get their flap and sash they just seem to disappear.

Ox I understand exactly where you are coming from however I was relaying you what should be happening which your pack is not doing. This CM has NO authority to be doing what he is doing and it is the COR and the COR alone who has the authority to put him in line. Otherwise all you get is a bunch of infighting with no results and it is the boys who wind up the losers.

Ox you and perididochas are both WRONG! The CO owns and controls everything done in the pack through the COR. If the COR feels that the cubmaster is out of line they have and only they have the authority to move or dismiss a leader NOT THE CM. That is simply spelled out in all the BSA literature. The COR in league with the IH can close up a pack at anytime, especially if the leaders are going rogue. This CM is not following protocol and should probably be let go for the good of the pack and the boys

A Cubmaster can do nothing about pack leaders or their assignments without first getting the approval of the COR and Pack Committee, and he better have a good reason to begin with otherwise he should get the boot.

Which is no different than the BSA insisting that gay parents do not make good scout leaders. Where is their data to prove this position? The sad truth is that many scouts are being called names and teased and insulted by their friends and adults who see them in their uniforms because of the wishy washy stance National has taken on this issue. That is why Trail Life is attracting more new members than the BSA, why should the kids have to suffer over the politics and policies of the organization.

I think baggs is correct. The BSA has taken a turn for the worse starting with the 1970's urban scouting, as a former DE myself in the late 80's seeing some of the internal corruption on the council and national levels first hand, and watching the continuing and increasing trend of closing councils and selling camps to cover up severe financial mismanagement by council scout executives while on the other hand seeing scouts proud of receiving badges they have worked so hard to earn, and enjoying learning outdoor and leadership skills, makes me wonder where and why the disconnect. Why has the BS

Lance Just one word for all you have done for the country and now for scouting "AWESOME"

These kind of parents really ruin the scouting experience for the boys. Scouting is supposed to teach the boys self reliance, organizational skills and leadership, instead these parents push the boys the way they think is right, do all the organization for the boys, and force them into activities they may not want to do. In other words all work, no play, no fun, and limited interaction with other scouts. These boys wind up leaving scouts feeling it is" boring and no fun".

HH - Torch is correct no leader can add to or change the requirements for advancement and they can not have the boys leading the den as they will get that chance when they join a troop.

It is true that you. seem to only see the DE at FOS time and the rest of the year good luck finding him. Same thing can be said for so called council services, they sold our camp so no summer programs. What good are they anyway.

E92 I totally agree with you. qwazse - the awards really need to be the teens idea or desire to earn. I disagree with linking them with boy scout awards, that is the trouble Venturing has been having all these years, being too closely tied with boy scouts instead of the separate and independent program it is and should be. Every crew I have come across in my council that runs its program similar to a troop has FAILED within 1-2 years. If you want to have a Venturing crew you need to have it something for the teens to look forward to with NEW and DIFFERENT experiences and not a repeat of the sa

exnicios, You can always do what I have done with my DE when he asks to do an FOS talk, I tell him if he wants to ask for a certain dollar figure what additional services or benefits will the units receive from the council for the additional cash. Last year he asked the parents to consider doubling their contribution and after getting grilled with questions from the parents about what new things the council was going to offer he ended quickly and ducked out of there like a rabbit. Funny he hasn't asked about FOS since.

Click I too talked to Bill Evans as well a while back concerning our crew advancements and he was impressed by the number who had received Silver, Ranger, and Trust Awards. He asked me what my secret was and I told him, just deliver an exciting, challenging, and fun program and the teens will pursue the awards on their own without any arm twisting. Our crew is growing every year and going stronger than ever, 90 at last count.

Those morons at National just can not help screwing around with a program that none of them seem to understand how to make it work. So now they make more changes which are totally unnecessary and the numbers keep dropping nationally. Those professional desk jockeys continue to lead scouting towards a self destructive end. At least our crew is strong with 90 active members this month.

National just can not help screwing around with Venturing until they destroy the program all together. Those pencil pushers in Irving don't know what they are doing as usual, and the membership continues to decline each year.

Stosh and BD bring up some very good points. It is not the Eagle that makes an honorable scout it is the boy and how he advances and what he learns and retains as an adult. The Eagle is merely a checklist as BD said, many put their heart into receiving Eagle while many others do the absolute minimum work to squeeze by. It is those minimalists that I have no respect for.

Stosh and BD bring up some very good points. It is not the Eagle that makes an honorable scout it is the boy and how he advances and what he learns and retains as an adult. The Eagle is merely a checklist as BD said, many put their heart into receiving Eagle while many others do the absolute minimum work to squeeze by.

Moose- You have to remember that the moderators here protect Richard B because he works for National. If anyone says ANYTHING negative to him they quickly delete their posts as they did with mine on this topic. In other words the administrators for this forum have become as weak minded as those at National who are determined to destroy the true scouting program and turn it into a classroom badge mill experience. Of course they will delete this post quickly so Richard B will not get upset and report them to National, lol.

Richard- It is time for you pencil pushers at National to start thinking outside the small box in determining what is and what is not scouting. National has created so many new superfluous rules and regulations that you are choking the life out of the ever shrinking scouting program. The GTSS is so poorly written and full of nonsense that is little more than a joke. How about you let the people in the field delivering the program have much more say and control in these type of situations. There are simple practical solutions to this and most other situations in scouting without the need to cr

Sorry Barry but your experiences with the old WB course are NOT typical nationwide and neither is your comparison. WB21C really provides these untrained scoutmasters very little in helping them manage a troop and create a fun, challenging, and exciting experience for the boys. The boy scout program has been so dumbed down that almost any boy age 11 can get (not earn) their Eagle in a year and a half in the ever growing number of MB mill troops. The old WB course in my councils were excellent in taking these new sedentary SM's and giving them the tools and techniques so necessary in teaching sc

Since uniforms have always been and will continue to be optional in Venturing it really doesn't matter what National does. If the new uniform is horrible few crews will wear it and instead will choose from a myriad of options as our crew has done. The current Venturing shirt is pretty pathetic in both looks and style so almost anything would be an improvement.

All the Venturing Awards are VOLUNTARY and are NOT considered advancement awards like in boy scouts. In our crew the teens choose whether or not what they want to earn all or none. Crews can organize around any activity allowed by the BSA and should not be run like a troop. It is NOT a matter of badges earned since their is NO advancement in rank in Venturing. National's pencil pushers has NEVER really gotten a hold of what Venturing is all about, maybe they should try reading the Venturing manuals for a change instead of just making sweeping changes to the program, without rhyme or reason.

And that is why the OA and Venturing will NEVER be a good match, you can't have members in the OA who are NOT allowed to fully participate in all of the activities. jp that is why the idea is so ludicrous and poorly thought out.

Well jp It truly amazes me what you relate however you are in Texas and we all know Texas is its own little world. The three councils in my area have all had the same experience with the OA and Venturing and the answer from all the Venturing youth is a big NO WAY. So your girls are sewing the boys costumes, a little sexist that would be a huge turnoff for our girls here. Good Luck to you but for all our Venturing youth the OA is a big NO!