BadenP

I agree with you Le Castor, there are many new SM's and ASM's who were never boy scouts, especially in LDS troops, who really need some hands on skills training desperately but it is sorely lacking in most councils. A major reason, IMO, why the rates of serious accidents and deaths have increased over the years significantly.

I think we all agree that scouting has been watered down over the years and the handbooks reflect that fact. So it is truly up to all the scouting leaders in all the programs to instill the real essence of what scouting truly is to all the boys/Venturing girls too using Green Bar Bill's model in the handbooks prior to the 1970's and other appropriate sources.

You all know the old adage "Respect is earned, not given." Too many den leaders try to be best pals with the boys instead of their leader so when discipline is needed the boys don't respect them enough to obey or listen to them. I was a webelos leader for two years because nobody else wanted to deal with the older boys. While we had a lot of fun in our den the boys knew what and where the boundaries were. Of the 12 boys in my den 11 graduated to boy scouts, all of them earned their AOL, and eight of them became Eagle Scouts.

It sounds like a great experience Matt, maybe I can convince my Venturing crew to give it a try this summer.

With STEM taking over the traditional scouting program the boys won't need a scout handbook anymore, instead they will be using Popular Science magazine online.

Seattle Pioneer has no substance to his argument/position so as per usual he has to blame all the liberals because AHG is now rapidly dying on the vine since disassociating themselves from the BSA.

I agree with Stosh, Le Castor and Tahawk all who make excellent points. My real concern is still with the new emphasis of STEM over the outdoor skills is Wood Badge in its present format even relevant anymore?

Qwasze You make my point. Science in scouting was more directly related to what they would find in the outdoor environment than in a school lab. Now we have merit badges for video games, building robot cars, playing chess, and other such nonsense, a perfect haven for those overweight sedentary boys who are afraid of the outdoors and getting a boo- boo. That is why the numbers will continue to drop in numbers, until National realizes there is a real need to go back to the original basics that made scouting popular with most boys instead of the couch potato's it now is catering to.

Girl Scouts were never really into the outdoor skills like the BSA was. The GSA is in trouble because of a lack of direction from the National and council leadership. The BSA with STEM is trying to replace the outdoor emphasis of the BSA to attract more of the ever growing pool of sedentary boys and adults who would rather sit on their butts then go backpacking or kayaking, and that is why the BSA is and will continue to lose members at an ever increasing rate. As the saying goes, "It's time to get back to the Basics".

As a former DE for five years in the same council and districts I can tell you firsthand all National cares about from its pro scouters are MONEY and numbers units and youth being a distant second. The job has its rewards but puts a lot of stress on your marriage and personal life. After five very successful years I felt it was time to move on after having three SE's two of whom were terminated for fiscal mismanagement of council funds and assets. Scouting from the volunteer side I find much more rewarding and satisfying.

As an ordained minister this is a difficult topic for me to take sides. Stout is correct that this issue has torn scouting apart and maybe taking religion out of scouting would make it easier to recruit again in schools, and bring in new members from families who do not practice any religion. Just because Baden Powell originally incorporated it into the program doesn't mean it has to remain. In our crew we have Christians, Jews, Muslims, Quakers, Native Americans, Buddhists ,etc.. and the subject of religion can be a real minefield if not discussed in proper context. The teens are more than op

This is where you SM's need to have a talk with your boys about proper behavior. As a Venturing Advisor for over 14 years I can tell you that no Venturing girl (14-18) is even slightly interested in a boy scout 11-14 years old. We are not the Prude Scouts of America so no need making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as the girls are not running around in their underwear or nothing at all this really is a non issue.

Qwase You are so wrong, check out Venturing YPT on scouting.org, or Venturing Advisors Manual, if you have a coed crew you need coed adult leaders at "ALL" times.

LeCastor Being involved with the same Venturing crew for over 13 years now I will tell you what has worked for us, first get yourself some well trained and experienced outdoor oriented associate advisors. Second, avoid at ALL costs running your crew like a troop, older teens if properly supported by the adults, not controlled by them, will surprise you how well they can organize and plan a program that they really want. Third encourage them to earn the Venturing awards they are interested in, don't force them. Our crew is very outdoor oriented and we have a great supporter in our local spo

Huey Tahawk is correct, the only mandated training for an MBC by National is YPT and some expertise/training in the badges they are counseling.

Old Ox what you describe is exactly what our crews do, and our crews also get an extensive background on a wide variety of outdoor experiences. That is why the crews in our council are continuing to grow and prosper along with the complete support of our SE and the community. WE have even had two National reps visit our crews and they were impressed. One of them even said, "I wish we could do this on a National level" and I answered him that there was absolutely no reason why they couldn't. All it would take would be taking Venturing into a new positive and exciting direction instead of trying

The changes in the Venturing in the long run can only hurt the program, because National still has not figured out how to deliver an effective and exciting program for high school age youth. Working with Venturing for the past 15 years and maintaining a crew of now 100 members the Venturing leaders in our council both adult and youth HAVE figured out what you need to do and how to do it the right way. All of the crews have members from adjoining councils whose Venturing crews are disappearing faster than their boy scout troops. Venturing is NOT about rank or how many badges you earn and never

SKEPTIC If you want a program like STEM fine go start your own group but no way in h*ll does it have anything that can be called scouting. You old farts who are too lazy or overweight to go hiking, camping, kayaking, should retire from scouting and go start a science club for all the little boys too afraid of going into or learning about the outdoors. And National wonders why scouting continues to be in a continuous shrinking spiral. What a joke.

And this will be the end of scouting in the Smoky Mt Council. Science/Tech has a place in scouting but should NOT be the entire focus of the program. Without the OUTING it is just not SCOUTING.

I agree with SW, this is a rather immature battle that I seriously doubt that OA National will take seriously or choose to get involved with. JP time for you to move on.

As a DE I had an eager GSA Exec ask me if we could do a joint camporee and since I had female Venturers attending and that our council and the GSA council had a great relationship my leaders and I agreed. It was a great experience with a few events where the girl scouts and female Venturers challenged the boy scouts to a raft race, cooking contest, and a pioneering tower building. The girls won two of the three events, and everyone had a great time.

This is/has been a standard for councils in financial trouble, selling off camps and other scouting property, such as scout huts, lake front property, etc. The council area I live in now repossessed three scout huts that had been given to local troops by city officials but the council exec came in and told the troops any property given to scouts legally belonged to the local council and not the troop or pack, unfortunately dishonesty is widespread among professional scouters. I even told Wayne Brock about this when he visited our area and he promised he would look into this situation, but of c

Matt Your idea is a good one. I did something similar many years ago when I was a Webelos leader and it worked out great. Good Luck.

I agree with jptexas's Ideas and would add another. Have a cub parent night showing off your troops strengths and the fun the boys have. A lot of this is probably coming from false rumors being spread which you have to show the parents how false they are.

Yes this sure is wrong. Scouts today seem less committed to the program and that is why we are losing more lodges and troops every year. One reason is that they BSA has left the scouting basics behind that made scouting what it is or was in favor of more tech and science which is not what scouting is or supposed to be about. The patrol method, teaching leadership and organizational skills and the outdoor program is all but gone and so is the number of boys in scouting.