mdlscouting

I'm a Local Scouting Ministries Specialist with the UMC, but I'm in NC, not FL. After hearing about this secondhand, I emailed the United Methodist Men group that works with scouting ministries for clarification.

From what I understand, the UMC as a whole has every intention to continue supporting scouting, but apparently there were some legal concerns about liability, and they would like to see some modifications to the chartering contract. Because it came so late in the year, right as the recharter process was getting underway, a 6 month delay was agreed on, so it doesn't interfere with local units while the lawyers for both sides haggle over the wording of the charter contract.

I got the following letter from Mark Stowe, from the Office of Scouting Ministries, General Commission on United Methodist Men (Basically, he's the guy at the top of all scouting related stuff in the UMC.)

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United Methodist Church Re-chartering Issue

Background

On October 18, 2012, we were informed that an email correspondence was sent from the Rev. Annette Stiles Pendergrass, superintendent of the North Central District of the United Methodist Church in North Central Florida to local church officials that instructed them not to sign the charter agreement between the church and the local BSA Council in its current, approved form.

On November 14, a conversation was held between BSA General Counsel and GCFAs General Counsel. As a result of this call a six-month extension to the current annual charter agreement was proposed and accepted.

In discussing the charter registration process with pastors, please note the Q&A below and use as a reference.

Can Local Councils Re-Charter UMC Sponsored Units?

Under the Church direction units will be permitted to proceed with the normal re-registration process and continue the scouting programs without interruption for a period of 12 months. Youth in church-sponsored scouting programs can continue working on their rank advancement and participate in educational activities.

This agreement was confirmed by Richard Rettberg, General Counsel, GCFA, United Methodist Church, in an email dated 11/23/12 and was sent to all conference chancellors nationwide.

Just to clarifyBoy Scout troops (units) sponsored by United Methodist churches should register as usual, EXCEPT they will not need to sign a new charter agreement at this time. The current charter (annual charter agreement) is extended for six months.

Are Local Councils Required to Have the Annual Charter Agreement Document Signed?

No. Under the current agreement between the United Methodist Church and the Boy Scouts of America both parties agreed to a six-month extension of the current charter agreement.

Both parties are working towards the final draft of a new annual charter agreement which will be provided to local councils within a six-month period. The council will ask for the new document to be signed by local United Methodist Church pastors.

Are Local Units Sponsored by Methodist Churches Insured?

Yes. As long as they re-register they will maintain the general liability coverage provided by the BSA.

As a Cub Leader, COR/CC for the Pack, COR for the Troop, soon to have kids in both programs, I would LOVE to see the units combined administratively.

How much easier would it be if we had 1 Popcorn Kernel. 1 Treasurer. 1 person handling ordering advancements, etc. All the stuff behind the scenes that isn't directly program related is duplicated.

But mroe importantly, By the time I get a parent up to speed as a cub leader, and they start to really get invested in the program... Their son crosses over to the troop. Because they are seen as different programs, it's REALLY hard to get them to come back and volunteer at the pack level. Likewise, I know several cub parents that are waiting to volunteer until their son is in the troop. They may have skills like EMT experience, or experience as an NRA Rangemaster / Instructor that the troop could really use... But since their son is in blue, they aren't involved at the troop level.

Do the Second Class requirements really cover all that is neccesary for the Firem'n and Totin' Chips?

There's some significant overlap there, but Not 100%.

What I would suggest: Teach the Firem'n and Totin' Chips, and use them to cover the requirements for 3C, 3D, 3E(Part) and 3F... And it would also hit a few other skills that the 2nd class requirements don't call for.

If you do that, you could assume that anyone who is 2nd class or higher has those skills, including the chits, and is not required to carry the card... But I'd go ahead and give it out to those below 2nd class, to reward them and give them immediate recognition.

I got the following response back from his Boss, Larry Coppick - I'll let you know if I hear anything else.

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I cant respond to your question at this time.

Were reviewing material related to the BSA charter, etc.

We should know more in the coming weeks.

Please be patient.

Thanks.

Larry

Larry W.Coppock

National Director

Office of Civic Youth-Serving Agencies/Scouting

General Commission on United Methodist Men

The United Methodist Church

I have emailed Marc Stowe, who is on the staff at the National United Methodist Men Organization, and handles issues related to the UMC Scouting Ministries.

I'll let you know what response I get on this, whether it's a local, state or national thing.

I imagine that every parent, and every scout leader would blame themself as well.

As a COR, I don't see this being a frequently filled position.

We are far more involved than most churches, and we are lucky enough to have an active COR (Ok, COR/CC/Tiger Cub DL), and a Chaplain, and 5 parents from the church who are active as Den Leaders or Committee Members at the pack level.

I have never seen any church out there that has spare people that are involved with the Unit that would have someone to put in this role, unless it's a second hat they wear.

For that matter, I really would be surprised to see it filled at the district or council levels.

The Troop is one of several in my hometown. The boy's stepdad went to Woodbadge with me, although I didn't really get to speak with him that much there. I do know a few other scouters from that troop as well.

I don't really know what the council staff is doing about this, but it wasn't my place to get in the middle of it. I do know several well experienced and compassionate Commissioners are involved with that troop, and are surely looking out for the family, and his friends in the troop.

The family is having a Service for him this evening, and the family has asked people In lieu of flowers, send memorials to Cabarrus Pets Society P.O. Box 5042 Concord, NC 28027 or to Boy Scout Troop 128 1030 Burrage Rd. Concord, NC 28025

Our Schools have become a lot more strict.

No boy talks, fliers only allowed if the boy goes by the office to pick it up himself on the way out to the bus.

One school nearby went from 50 boys down to 5. Our Pack recruited at 6 schools this year, just to stay even with last year. Most packs are facing huge drops.

Girl Scouts are getting hit just as hard, my wife is district recruiter for them.

We have tried the invite a friend approach, without much luck. We need to get the attention of the parents who make the decision, not just hand a flier from one kid to another.

I know a few tiger cubs like that.

"I wish all the Den Leaders were like you" - At Day Camp - Our Tiger Den was the loudest - On purpose. We sang so loud, everyone at camp knew which station were hiking too.

Bear Patrol!

#1 in the Troop, #2 in the Woods!

That's going to be a really tricky call, and based a lot on the abilities of the boy. As some have mentioned, Autism Spectrum Disorders have a huge range, so it might be a relatively minor issue, or it could be something that would make him unable to do the job at all.

The link below is a document I wrote about Autism Spectrum Disorders and Scouting, and it might be of some assistance.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kJAdct2P8U7_-auih_QWzh0R7hbRXIsTgb1CYIy7vD0/edit?pli=1

I'm going to say that it would probably be easier for him to work with the kids who are not on the spectrum, in most cases. If he is extremely familiar with Autism Spectrum Disorders in general, (Not just his own experiences with it) It might be good for him to work with kids on the spectrum. However, most kids at that age do not have that kind of experience. In fact, most adults on the spectrum do not have that kind of experience.

BasementDweller: Why would it be creepy or weird for the Committee Chair to do it on behalf of the pack, as opposed to the Cubmaster or a Den Leader doing it?

I'm assuming we are talking about an involved Committee Chair that the boys and their parents know, not one of those "on paper only" types.

I have found with Webelos, that the trouble goes up exponentially as you add more boys. That is, A 4 man tent isn't 2x as much trouble as a 2 man tent... It's about 8x as much trouble.

This may very well differ with older, more mature scouts. But for younger ones, I would advocate 2 man tents.

I'm in Concord NC myself. I would definately agree with SP's advice.

I've actually stepped down as CM myself, to focus on the Committee Chair role in my pack. I would strongly advocate separating the administrative role and the Cubmaster role. Do NOT try to do it all yourself.

If you were scoutmaster, what is the first change you would implement in the troop?

If you were a new scout coming into the troop, do you think you would feel welcome?

Going back to the original question, I know of several reasons why a Cubmaster or pack Committee may not want to have district events advertised directly to the scouts / parents.

Some events involve a great deal of prep work by the pack. We plan about 3 camping trips in the fall, and another 3 in the spring. Our Committee has determined that generally speaking, we do not want to participate in the council camping event each fall, where 2000+ attendees are crammed into our council camp. Thus, we plan our own camping trips.

If a DE goes recruiting boys at a school roundup, and tells the new parents about this awesome camping trip, that the pack has already decided not to attend, there's a big problem there. The new scouts are dissapointed, and the parents want to know why we can't just plan one more trip. (Mind you, they don't volunteer to plan the trip, prep the food, bring the gear... They want the existing leaders to do that for them.) That happens to us every year.

Secondly, there may be other conflicting events. If we have a camping trip on a weekend, and the council has an event announced at the last minute, We would much rather have our boys attend the camping trip. If we have our calendar planned, (Long before the council calendar comes out in august) then we aren't going to reschedule everything just to accommodate late breaking plans for council events.

If it is something that a) A family can sign up for and attend on their own thru the council and B) Requires no Pack leaders be present... I'd be ok with that. If you expect the pack to organize attendance, plan transportation, collect money, and register as a pack, you had darn well better get my permission before you volunteer me as a leader in a Pack to coordinate all that.

I am absolutely 100% in favor of a Pack and a Troop from the same COR having a tight knit relationship.

As CM (An now Pack CC/COR) I probably call our troop's SM more often than anyone except my wife. Our units work very closely together, and I'm looking forward to improving that relationship even more, once we have some older boys who want to be Den Chiefs. (New Troop, the oldest of the boys are still very much needed as SPL/ASPL/PLs... But within a year or two, I expect some of them to be looking for more challenges.

If I had my way about it, the Pack and Troop would be considered a single unit, with a single committee. One set of Leaders to work with the Cubs, one set to work with the Boy Scouts, and both of them work with the Webelos.

I do not like splitting the boxes for individual sales.

However, I don't have any problem at all to giving a single pack out to someone who makes a donation. Often make more profit from a single pack than I would from a $10 pack of caramel Corn.

Congratulations, I hope you have a great time.

Keep an open mind, and remember that there is often an unseen reason behind a lot of the things, even the ones that might seem frustrating at the time.

When it happened, the couple had 1 kid in the troop, 1 in the pack, and 1 in the GS Troop at our church.

It's been really tricky trying to be diplomatic about it.

It's a lot easier to raise money, if you are putting the donor's name on the structure. Look at colleges all over the world, and the way their buildings are named.

FYI: There is no reason at all you can't attend a pack that doesn't actively recruit from your son's school. If you like that pack better, go for it.

Our own pack has boys from 8 different schools, only 4 of which we actively recruit from.

And One Note: The vast majority of Chartered Organizations do not know (or care) they have this authority, and have absolutely no interest in interfering with the way the unit runs.