MattR

I think you're asking about how to motivate someone. Given that this is the challenge of civilization don't be surprised that it's not simple.

Some people will respond to simply recognizing that they're not doing a good job and all you need to do is point that out.

Some people don't know what to do and need help figuring out a plan.

Some people need constant correction.

Some people only respond to pain, or negative consequences.

Some people respond to a combination of the above.

Some people just don't want to be there and nothing you do will change their minds.

Everyone is different. There's no science to this.

For a lot of scouts I had to start with some pain ("you will not get eagle unless you start behaving like one") followed by "I want you to be successful, let's come up with a plan." That's what I mean by tough love.

I suspect the SM has never run into this problem before. It's hard to deal with these types of problems. One thing you'll learn is to recognize these problems earlier on but it's still not fun confronting scouts, not to mention the extra time you need to spend on this.

My suggestion is first get on the same page with the SM. If she'll take care of it, bonus!

Welcome to the forum, @HistTeach .

And welcome to scouting. One quick note, the adult that stands up in front of a cubscout pack is called the Cubmaster. When you get to a scout troop you can become a scoutmaster.

As for your trailer, keep looking. Also, ask at your local DMV. There may be a way to legally claim ownership.

Technically, the chartered org would own the trailer. If they would rather not, like most units, usually some adult claims ownership and just transfers ownership to someone else with younger scouts.

Do the trek with friends. That will be memorable.

Yep, they get the credit for time served and you get a lesson on confronting a problem in a positive way - i.e. making lemonade from lemons. My guess is that your spl needs a bit of tough love along with some guidance. I've had scouts that were also cruising, were told this is not what an eagle scout does and if they don't change their ways, won't get eagle. Okay, that was more than a bit of tough love, but it was all I could think of to get their attention. Every time I had this conversation, except once, the scout took it to heart and really improved. They usually thanked me at their COH.

I stretched the rules and if you can figure out how to get their attention without doing that I'll applaud you. It's not easy confronting scouts but it can lead to a lot of growth. Doing one's best usually involves challenging oneself.

Welcome to the forum, @BearsBeetsBSG.

Since there are only 5 girls in the troop there's no need for an SPL. I'd sit them all down, make them a patrol, and have elections for a PL that wants the job.

I like @InquisitiveScouter's list but I think those are tools rather than fundamentals. They will help a troop fulfill the promise of scouting but there are a few things that need to be in place first. My troop once had the fundamentals needed to be a great troop but it has slipped and is no longer the troop everyone looks up to.

Scouting is mostly about people (look at the scout law) and so people are what make a troop great. A troop with scouts that mostly want to be in the outdoors and also live the scout law are critical. In order for that to happen the parents have to be like minded. A couple of scouts that don't fit this is fine, they will either change or leave, but when a majority of scouts are more interested in video games than going for a hike or, worse, don't treat others well, then greatness is off the table.

A young scout with a good heart and that is eager to take on the outdoors needs to have older scouts they can look up to. Eventually the younger scouts will take on that responsibility. Also, younger scouts need to see other younger scouts like them. That's the backbone of a great program. It doesn't need to be all the scouts but if the younger scouts have nobody to look up to, if what they mostly see is self centered, crude, scouts that don't want to be there then they will leave.

Now, how to implement that? That's tough. I've had really helpful adults whose kids were horrible roll models for younger scouts and also fantastic scouts whose parents didn't do much. I never figured this out but encouraging greatness is probably part of it.

Then let's talk about the beautiful fall colors. Or, I can delete the thread.

5 hours ago, FireStone said:

I think he feels like he would be considered a "snitch" if he speaks up.

Here's an opportunity to talk to him like an adult, and that will help. You say you "think he feels ..." but you aren't sure. So ask him in a way that respects his desire for not "snitching." Tell him you don't want to know the details of who or what but whether it's happening and whether he knows how to deal with it. This is a problem that a lot of young scouts go through. They're constantly being told about the scout law and oath and it only takes one older scout that's grumpy or doesn't want to be there that will make a mockery of everything. Get two together and I can easily see a scout with a good heart say this is a farce.

If this really is the problem then his walking away from scouts would be a shame. I agree with others that it should be his choice but it should be an informed choice.

Welcome to the forum, @Icheeka.

I agree that just asking for $2000 is not a great idea. A budget is a great idea. Unfortunately I can't be of much help there. My guess is there are plenty of other cub leaders that can give you ideas of where to start.

Welcome to the forum, @Pandion .

Very retro! It looks fun. Hopefully it will help start some conversations.

@Jmatt0613, to answer your original question about encouraging scouts to talk to the SM, maybe the SM is part of the problem. You said the scouts don't really like the SM. If there's no trust between the scouts and SM then I wouldn't expect that many scouts will bring up problems with him.

Then there's a blur of bullying, bad behavior, the SM not listening to adults, swastikas on arms (!?), .... Any moral code, whether the Scout Law or the Bible, can be, how to say this kindly, superceded by people's emotions, biases and desires. Without humility it's just a lot of words.

I'm sure the SM is trying to do what he thinks is right. The same goes for the parents. I give you the most credit for recognizing a problem and asking for help.

But I don't have much of an answer for you. When I was an SM I knew I intimidated young scouts. I'm tall, have a low voice and am not shy of using it where needed. I didn't take unscout like behaviorvery well.

So, I spent a lot of time creating what I called silver bullets. Essentially it was good will so when things got bad we had a relationship to lean on to facilitate solving problems. I enjoyed laughing with the scouts, I asked lots of questions and really tried to listen to their struggles, whether it was perceived unfair elections, problems with other scouts or problems with parents. I tried to develop some trust. I also encouraged ASMs to do the same. If a scout found another adult easier to talk to I'd still hear about issues. I'm humble enough to realize my limits.

But you're not the SM. Maybe you can still help develop that trust.

12 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

This weekend last, a cub from my pack presented the Council's popcorn wares.

I purchased a 6 ounce bag of kettle corn for $25.00 USD.

My first CAR (Granted, a Rambler American) was $400.  (But it did get me through college-the kettle corn barely made a snack).

 

I'm sure you can buy used popcorn for much less, just like your Rambler!

Kids need to play and adults need to learn from them. Maybe all that's needed is a way for the adults to find something they want to play while the scouts are playing at egames.

Are people dying in a video game much different than people dying in a murder mystery? Whether they're shot by a gun or a laser, stabbed with a sword, bludgeoned with a battle axe or poisoned by the tip of an umbrella, virtual people dying is a fixture of our amusement. The critical distinction is that real people are all sacred whereas characters in games,  movies and books aren't. Hopefully while playing these games the scouts will learn about this as they deal with winning and losing their games.

I hope everyone has a good new year.

Isn't retention another way of saying program quality?

I just got back from a camporee and the quality of the camporee program was really good. The patrols that did well had phenomenal teamwork. The patrols that struggled had scouts that weren't motivated for whatever reason and just had obvious teamwork problems.

There was one patrol of AOL girls along with their den chief that was just as impressive as a couple of patrols that were mostly older scouts that just clicked. Anyway, the den chief was a rock star for the program. That was an older scout making the program for younger scouts. Just like the Swiss scouts, it's the relationship between the older and younger scouts that make the program.

When I asked why our troop didn't have den leaders like it used to the response was that the scouts don't have time for both a patrol and a den meeting every week. That's fair. But then the issue is why isn't there more flexibility to let those scouts that want to work with younger scouts do that? Why doesn't the program encourage it? When I was SM and a scout wanted to be a den chief then that was considered an important POR and if all they did with their patrol was show up for a few campouts but they helped at all the den meetings then they were considered very active. Instead, troops are encouraged to create PORs for no other reason than to sign off reqs. So scouts that might really help the program aren't encouraged.

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

The presentation was about recruiting and they were just recapping where they were at YTD. 

Did they say where thry were at the start of the year? Usually when there's a thermometer, it's implied that it starts at zero, so in this case it would be how much growth there is ytd, but it's clearly not that. If there were 910k at the end of last year then being at 900k now is not great.

I assume there's more to this presentation than the one slide? This slide alone doesn't mean much. What if the thermometer is cooling off?

There is another option. Talk to the scouts and ask them what they think is the right thing to do. They all know what isn't right but may need some ideas on how to fix it.

Few summer camps teach the splices for pioneering because few people know them. So I would offer the scouts the option of my teaching them. They got one on one attention and really enjoyed it. It's a hard skill to learn so when they did, they learned about more than the MB. The point is, asking the scouts what is right works better than telling them.

@CubHerder, I understand your pain. This is why I said cubs burns out parents.

A quick response to each of your points:

1) Volunterrs. Yes, that is the reality. It used to be 4:1 but I don't doubt 10:1 now. The simple answer is make the program less complicated. More on that below.

2) facility. That hurts. We used to rent the school gym once a month for pack meetings and dens were on their own..

3) Council. Yes  and that likely won't change. Roundtables might be more helpful.

4) Cost. This is related to 1) in that you need to focus on what's important.

5) Ages. This is the one easy one. @Armymutt is correct, this is not a concern for cubs.

6) Indoors/outdoors. Don't focus on belt loops and pins. The biggest mistake I made was doing that. Do what's fun for the scouts. Getting them comfortable with being outside while having fun is the best preparation for scouts.

7) Religion. Given your wide mix, leave that to the individual parents. Focus on the scout law when the scouts don't act scout like.

So, the big issues are volunteers, cost and program. Or rather, being overwhelmed by expectations. How I would handle this is to think about the core goals of the program and eliminate those things that are preventing those from happening. Scouts is fun with a purpose. Don't confuse that with belt loops and uniforms.  A month of outdoor games (hide and seek, kick the can, ghost in the grave yard, ...) will be easier for you to set up and be more fun for the scouts than some belt loop about doing chores. If the parents are concerned with cost then replace the uniform with a neckerchief and a blue t-shirt that says "I'm a cub scout" and will last until they outgrow it.

About the program described in the cubscout handbooks, I'm not saying ignore it. It can be the basis of a great program for your scouts, especially if you have lots of parents with lots of time to donate. But you don't have that. So use the handbooks as a source of inspiration for activities you can do. Time and money spent at the scout store on pins and belt loops is not time and money organizing a fun activity at a park. Which of these is going to give you more opportunity to instill the scout law into these cubs and prepare them for a troop? Completing Wolf and Bear is not necessary. If you're not buying patches nobody will know. At the B&G you just say "you're all Bears (or webelos) now! Hooray!"

My son is now 30. He does not remember any of the pins we did. He barely remembers the pinewood derby (talk about a huge time sink for the parents). He does remember the space derby because that was incredibly fun. He remembers the B&G when the flaming arrow missed the bullseye and lit the curtain on fire. He remembers shooting BB guns and the few campouts we did. He had a good basis for understanding the scout law.

I think many cub scouters burn out because they're all trying to push a round peg into a square hole for years on end. That's why I was burned out. Cubs want fun, the cub program is not inherently fun. That leaves the adults trying to figure out how to make it fun. That's okay for a year or two. After that it becomes a slog.

When I compare cubs to other youth activities most others have a clear goal that encourages self motivation. If the idea is to win a game then by just playing the game most kids will want to figure out how to, for example, be better at putting the ball in the net than the other kid defending the net. That makes it easier for the adult to run practices because the youth are finding their own reason to be there. Cub scouts, on the other hand, don't have a clear goal that is done every week. That puts a lot of pressure on the adult to figure out how to make it fun. It's not internal motivation, but rather external motivation from the adult.

Unfortunately, there's a similar problem in scouts. It used to be you needed to know the knots if you wanted your tent to stay up or how to make a fire if you wanted to cook. That's real motivation to learn some skills. But those skills aren't really needed every week or even every month. Anyone can set up a tent or turn on a stove. It's hard for the scouts to find their own motivation to show up and improve. It's not like marching band or robotics where the goal is obvious - get better and learn new skills. The BSA treats the motivation as Eagle. That puts a lot of pressure on the adults to find other ways to make scouting appealing. The truth is the main motivation I saw for the scouts was friendships and high adventure trips. Along the way a lot of older scouts also found other aspects of scouting, like working with younger scouts or service projects. All of those things were internal motivation and they worked well. If the scouts found a way to motivate themselves they'd stick around long enough to get eagle. On the other hand, if they didn't have friends or didn't find a purpose in the troop after about age 14, they stopped coming. So eagle is not really that strong of a motivator.

For cubs, it's all on the parents. And I saw plenty of parents say, nope, we're done after cubs. Or, at best, they'd take at least 6 months off after bridging over. Some would stop volunteering but were happy if their sons would stick around in scouts.

Welcome to the forum @Jmatt0613.

Hi @Austinb, and welcome to the forum. And congratulations on your Ecoh.

To answer your question, since you've already aged out you can't wear the patch. I'm not sure about the medal. You can definitely wear the eagle knot.

Good luck with your interview.

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I've always heard the argument that Scouts is a still cheaper than most sports; however, I'm not sure that adage holds.

Probably holds in high school, but certainly not the age of your son.

I'd suggest, just like you're doing, handle it locally. I always thought the neckerchiefs was about being able to find your den at a pack meeting. Find another way to mark their uniforms, hat, whatever is cheap, and save some money.

Or just don't worry about the changing uniform. It's better to keep the program fun. That's where the burnout stems from. My son and I took off 2 years in the middle of cubs because I saw it coming, knew what scouts would be like and didn't want my son souring on cub scouts.

What's with raging on Speedo? They sponser the US Olympic swim team.