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Posts posted by MattR

  1. Welcome to the forum, @MichelleIsAScout.

    If I read you correctly you're saying the church ordered some supplies independent of this scout and asked the scout to install them? Question number 1, is there much complexity in the installation? What does this involve? If this is something really simple then this isn't, in my view, an eagle project. If a scout is just providing labor then that's not leadership. Anyone can put out a flier, send some email, and get a half dozen scouts to show up. It might be a great service project but it doesn't involve leadership.

    Usually when I see projects like this I try and find something else the scout can own and take care of. Figuring out how to make something work, taking a vague idea from the benefactor and turning it into a detailed project and leading that, doing some research as how to best do something. Any simple task, if it's scaled up, presents new challenges that will require leadership. The challenge for the adults is to help the scout find those types of things.

    Hope that helps.


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  2. GUESS WHAT, EVERYONE? IT"S TIME TO LOCK THIS THREAD AGAIN! It's hard to type while holding down the shift key so please just assume I'm shouting at you. I'm not really shouting but, for the following people: @HashTagScouts, @MikeS72, @desertrat77, @Eagledad, @Mrjeff, @Jameson76, @BAJ  ( @SSScout and @TAHAWK get a pass for trying to make light of it), and everyone else that is complaining about parents complaining about how unfair this virus is to our children. I'm fairly sure that there's another thread for that. Go find it and post there. This thread is supposed to be about chapter 11 and all the lawyer stuff.  Well, that and I don't want to split this thread apart again. Just let the whiny parents go, please?

    But you know, @David CO has a point. 100,000 people have died, a lot more will, and 40million people are newly unemployed. Everyone is struggling. It's time for our better angels to come out. I will unlock this thread as soon as it seems like those that want to post have figured out that won't work. And for those that do post about non legalistic stuff, I'll just hide your post as that's easy.


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  3. 29 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    This area is the seat of executive function, responsible for processing what our actions should be in

    1. Situations that involve planning or decision making
    2. Situations that involve error correction or trouble shooting
    3. Situations where responses are not well-rehearsed or contain novel sequences of actions
    4. Dangerous or technically difficult situations
    5. Situations that require overcoming strong habitual response or resisting temptation

    ^^^^^Sounds like Scouting to me...

    I think this is exactly what makes scouting unique and useful. This is where the magic occurs and where the focus should be.

    The challenge is keeping up the challenge for a range of abilities that change as scouts age. There's a big difference between what a 13 year old and a 16 year old can do. Pushing a program such that a 13 yo can complete eagle  leaves nothing for a 16 yo.

  4. 1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

    There will be a new “National Program Council” that will focus on maintaining our program templates and materials.  I believe it may largely replace the network of national committees, national standing committees, ad hoc committees and professional structures that comprise the bulk of program personnel at the national level. 

    Wait. You mean there was no program silo? I guess making one is good news.

    1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

    Replacing Regions and Areas.

    This means nothing to me. This is just org chart stuff from my perspective. My question is how will my council be kept honest. If national is smaller along with regions and areas, then my council will have even less oversight. I'd like to say this is good but it just isn't. There is currently nothing to keep my council accountable to its customers. I don't see how this change improves anything.

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  5. Several messages got me thinking, but here are 2 of them.

    9 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

    We can't be nostalgic. We have to figure out how we can serve today's youth. Lots of people think they have the answers. I don't claim to know who has the right answers. I suspect adults younger than me with younger kids will know better than people 50 - 70.


    1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

    Me, too.  We joined for the character building.  Camping and other activities keep the youth interested, but if it becomes just a camping club, then we can do that much cheaper and with no "red tape" on our own.

    I hope there's enough flexibility to get more input from the parents as to what they really want for their kids. To me, the current program seems tailored to a narrow slice of society: The BSA is targeting parents that were scouts in their youth, those that want to camp every month, and those that want to advance. But I can see other parents that just don't understand this program. A lot of parents want their kids to be responsible and able to take care of themselves, to solve their own problems and own their own decisions. Doing that with character should be the starting point. My guess is that would be interesting to at least half the parents I know of that aren't in scouting. And, if it were economical, a lot of parents that can't afford the current program. I believe scouting can do that if the definition of success is opened up.

    For example, why is it that a troop should go camping every month? Honestly, going on a hike twice in one month or doing a service project at a lake could be just as beneficial. Why the push for advancement? When scouts are young they want recognition but come 13 or 14 years old, it's no longer what keeps them around. So why does JTE push advancement?

    I would much rather start teaching scouts how to generate their own ideas and their own definition of success. Yes, I'd like to keep the outdoors central, but if a group of scouts wants to focus on environmental restoration, yoga on a mountain top or mastering white water kyaking, they should be encouraged to go for it. If they can't find the merit badges that excite them and instead they find a local science teacher that gets them interested in growing food in their gardens then let's drop the push for merit badges. While I certainly enjoyed pioneering merit badge as a youth, who is to say that we should still be doing these activities?


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  6. 10 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

    Pioneer Scout Reservation, Erie Shores Council, is doing 1/2 week troop programs.  "Each camping session will be limited to 10 groups per session. Each group must stay in separate campsites. No campsite sharing will be permitted. Group Size Group size will be limited to 10 total people per group (number subject to increase with state and local health orders). All grou i8ps must have 2 deep leadership so there is a limit of 8 youth max per group. Troops with group sizes larger than 8 youth will have to split into multiple groups. One group per campsite, no sites will be shared."

    Good for them. Now, just call it a patrol based summer camp and they might just have a great new program model.

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  7. 5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    but evidence shows that nothing replaces experience for continuing the concept of giving youth independence for making bad decisions with the intention of developing good character? 

    That has to change. What I mean is I agree with you that this is an important skill - letting scouts fail - but it would be immensely benefitial to find a way to teach this to adults. Any ideas? No fair saying it can't be done or that there will be problems. Those can be dealt with later.

  8. On 5/9/2020 at 8:50 PM, fred8033 said:

    Social distance?  Scouts can't keep their hands off each.  Pushing.  Shoving.  Sharing a chair.  Trading gear.  Playing games.  It is 100% unrealistic to think you can have 6 to 8 scouts who are 11 to 15 years old stay six part away from each other for multiple days.  I doubt if you could succeed for 15 minutes.

    I suppose it depends on the scouts involved. If it's a group of 11 year olds, I absolutely agree with you. If it's a group of mature scouts, I can see it happening. It all gets back to trust.

    I would not open this idea up to anyone, though. I also wouldn't trust just any scouts to go hike on their own. And yet, groups of 10 is starting to be allowed. My county's hospitals are not even close to full (they've restarted elective surgeries), so it sounds plausible to me. Again, it depends on the scouts and whether there's a level of trust and preparedness. Identify issues and if everyone is comfortable, including the CDC, with how to deal with it then this is an opportunity for growth.  You had concerns about shared cooking, cleaning, door knobs and the like . These are are easily eliminated - go hiking or backpacking and have everyone carry their own gear.

  9. 1 hour ago, BBQ said:

    This difference between family camping and hiking and patrol camping is that a family comes from the same family and household. 

    Yes, I agree with you. OTOH, we teach scouts how to shoot guns safely.

    2 hours ago, BBQ said:

    there are still situations that lead to close contact which leads to transmission of the virus, such as travelling to and from the campsite in the same car, cooking with the same utensils, using a single camp wide restroom, sharing a tent, and sitting close to each other for activities.    Care still must be taken.   Many states are asking visitors to state parks to always wear a mask.  

    Traveling: Hike or Camp nearby and have mom or dad drop you off and pick you up. Cooking: Bring your own backpacking stove and gear. Better yet, learn how to do no-cooking meals. Restrooms: Use the National Forest or BLM land. Tents, bring your own, preferably that you've made from a tarp, wood stakes and rope. These campouts do not need to be exotic. To be honest, starting with someone's big back yard would be great. Have each scout clean the bathroom after they use it. Sitting too close: Make a game of it. This could be a good memory.

    I agree that this will increase the risk of exposure. And maybe now is not the time to try this. It really depends on what the rules are as well as everyone's comfort level in the patrol. I've seen some parents in my neighborhood select a small group of friends for their kids that will play with each other and no others. It's worth considering this idea as it will still limit how far the virus could spread. It's the poor man's version of contact tracing. Speaking of which, when we finally do have contact tracing this could be a great way to limit exposure and still have some fun.


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    14 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

    66%?  I suppose it's possible to believe 66% of the residents of NYC are liars is an explanation.  Another is that the stay at home orders are a farce.

    There are all sorts of problems with this 66% number.

    First of all, it does not include all those that have the virus, which we only have a vague idea what the number is, and the number of admitted vs having the virus. So that 66% could be closer to 1% of those that have the virus.

    But more importantly, this has nothing to do with the original topic and this thread is not in issues and topics. So let's get back on topic.



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  11. It just seems ironic that scouting, which is primarily about being in the outdoors, which in turn is all about getting away from society, which is just an old fashioned way of saying social distancing, is struggling to figure out what to do.

    If summer camp doesn't work then go for a hike. I am doing a lot of hiking these days. If I had young children around we'd be camping. The patrol model is ideal. Do things as a patrol. Minimize crossings between patrols. Have faith that scouts have the imagination to make fun from sticks, mud and rope. They don't need a dining hall and a shooting range. Some day those will seem like a luxury, but for now, stick with the basics and 6'. What they really need is confidence and knowledge to take care of themselves in the outdoors. That way the patrol can have fun while scouts keep their 6' bubbles. Make a game of it.

  12. 14 hours ago, swilliams said:

      I dunno.  Maybe we really should just shrug off advancement for the most part for now.  The other fear is no summer camp, but that's something to be tackled if and when it comes to that.

    Or maybe your ideas are good, you could keep generating them, gently push them and just accept the few scouts and parents that take you up on your ideas. So, do your best and know that that is a job well done. If only one scout liked what you did then that's one scout you helped. Virus or no, that's a healthier way of looking at this.

    I'm beginning to think the only way I can continue with scouts, between my frustrations with my council, bankruptcy and the virus, is to find a happy place where I can help and just ignore the rest of it.

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