MattR

Welcome to the forum, @ramblingfam.

Welcome to the forum, @BisonBison , congratulations on your new hobby!

If they have enough photos they could make a 3d model, a new mold, and just remake it. The scouts would think that was cool.

3 hours ago, AScoutIsHonest said:

My conundrum right now is that my son likes the troop.

Please consider that maybe this should be more of his problem and less of yours. If he has friends and is having fun then he will get more out of the program than if he's not having fun but is advancing. 

This SM and all of his problems are something your son has to navigate in his pursuit of his goals. Advancement is only part of them and this will change over time.

"Fun with a purpose."

Talk about the fun 10x as much as the purpose and their eyes shouldn't glaze over.

I'm just curious, but, for the survivors, has talking helped?

Welcome to the forum,  @AScoutIsHonest.

I agree that he's a bit over the top. The SM can refuse to sign the blue card but wanting a scout to slow down isn't a valid reason, especially if the troop isn't doing anything fun over the summer.

How about teaching your son a different skill: have him talk to an ASM or two or even the CC. Eventually, someone needs to gently talk to the SM. Maybe your son can facilitate that.

I'm not sure scoutreach is an official program of the bsa anymore. There's nothing about it on the bsa website. Some councils have something called scoutreach but it might be a holdover from the old program. We talked about it a while ago and some councils are making it work. My guess is it takes funding and the right person to run it.

Just a hunch but that might be a better way to get units up and running than throwing a new parent into a room full of cubs.

True shame, but given that people are ripping off trailers for scrap I'm unfortunately not surprised.

21 hours ago, ramanous said:

Outdoor Program is one of the eight official Methods of Scouting, which are derived from the Vision & Mission of Scouting.  Other methods include Patrol, Advancement, Leadership, Uniform.

https://troopleader.scouting.org/scoutings-aims-and-methods/

Now, how do you get other Scouters to care about implementing all eight methods? Should they be implemented with equal weight, or based on troop priority?

The problem with the methods is that they don't include what youth are really looking for. All scouts want fun with friends and older scouts want a unique challenge (high adventure, working with younger scouts, service, it depends on the scout). To make scouting work they also need to learn how to create this on their own. That's not simple. It's more than organizing a campout every month.

It includes understanding what motivates the scouts, and that's an age old problem. Most people fear the unknown yet every adventure includes the unknown. 

Welcome to the forum, @MichaelD .

My suggestion is find a council office near where you lived and start asking questions.

18 hours ago, Spatulate said:

I also wonder if different units have varying policies on this topic (?) 

They do. That's why you want a written policy everyone understands. We used to treat scout accounts as property of the scout until we looked more closely at the law. Then it became you had to use the money for scout-like activities. Finally, it had to be scout activities. Given the cost of camping it was never an issue for active scouts, it only caused problems for scouts that left early and didn't enjoy camping.

@Spatulate, welcome to the forum.

The track is really cool. (Hope they have a big place to store it.)

I also really liked that they had a build day. Every scout can at least have a reasonable car and it's no more than a few hours. That brings back the fun.

@Eagle_Chris, welcome to the forum.

For one, we talk to each other. While they're showing you no interest might not be bad, communication can head of surprises. One thing you don't want with your CO is a surprise.

We also did service projects for our CO or just helped with their projects. Again, that's part of the communication.

44 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I hate finding typos in what I write.  Replace "not" with "now".   ...

And, I really wish I could come back 12 hours later to remove half the words.     

Just ask. I fixed the not now typo

Rather than give any money to the council I'd suggest going to one of the camps, ask them what they need that's worth about $250 and go buy it for them. They will be thankful. Do not give them the money and do not give it to the council saying it's for the camp as the camp will never see it. This is my experience.

In the meantime, tell the guy that told you the 40% fable that the deal is off the table because they lied to you. Nobody pays 40%, not even for popcorn - that has a built in 33% that goes to the council.

<end of rant>

I'll add my 2 cents about camping. One reason scouts say no about anything is they don't have a fun idea to grab onto. If someone asks if they want to go camping they could easily say no but if they're asked if they want to go on a campout, spend the morning playing a new game that covers a few acres, have a Dutch oven dessert competition and hang out with their friends, they might be more interested.

It is boy led, but also adult encouraged. They may need help coming up with good ideas.

2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Not sure why I was deleted previously but the Catholic Church vs BSA of who was worse in CSA is like:

"THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK"

Both are equally guilty of not protecting youth!!

I was going to send you a PM but the image, that had nothing to do with the topic, was the problem as we've posted that images that are more sarcasm than useful commentary will be removed. I would have just removed the image but that's all there was. 

All these images do is raise the temperature without adding to the conversation.

1 hour ago, Oldscout448 said:

I too have seen Eagle scouts in my troop that I thought would be a shoo-in, fail to be selected year after year. But as someone who has been the OA adult in many an election in other troops, I can see some potential problems with this.   

I'll never forget the sight of a red faced SM shouting in the face of the OA youths who had conducted the election that he had to do it over again after the SM talked to the troop, because the SM's son, the "best scout in the troop"  hadn't been elected.  I had watched the votes being counted and his son was nowhere close to the 50%  mark needed.  Perhaps he was one way in front of dad and another when with his peers.  Maybe some scouts didn't like the SM and were using the election as a way of telling him so. Or just parental blindness.  It wasn't my troop of course so I had no way of knowing.  What I did know was that nobody was going to scream undeservedly at "my" boys while I was around. Nor were we going to hold another election after he told the scouts how to vote "right".   I edged myself between them and he started in on me while the election crew beat a hasty retreat for the door.  

Admittedly, this was an extreme case.  One out of a hundred. But I believe it showcases some of the potential  pitfalls.

Dad is shouting at the scouts about how to vote and the son doesn't get the votes needed. I suspect this is a case of the acorn not falling far from the tree. When I asked scouts why someone didn't get in the common response was "that scout is a very different person when no adults are around." Just a hunch but maybe the son also yells at the other scouts.

2 hours ago, ramanous said:

Is a program better of to stick with the BSA program (as trained), or change the program to keep youth interested?

That's not very specific.

2 hours ago, ramanous said:

Recently had a parent pull the kid out of the troop because the parent didn't think their boy should be responsible for helping maintain patrol gear.

That is. I agree with the SM, and the program in this case.

2 hours ago, ramanous said:

Some of these parents are influential in the CO, so the SM is put into a difficult political situation.

Something tells me this is getting closer to the problem at hand. Can you give us a bit more information? This sounds like new parents that don't like how the troop is run. Could it be they still like the cub scout model and don't understand the scout model? If so, this is a common problem.

9 minutes ago, BAJ said:

It really has to start with thinking about the OA not as something that needs no explanation because “every scout should be honored to be elected” but something that we have to explain to them why they should want to be a part of.

This seems to be a common problem throughout the BSA - how to explain the fundamentals succinctly.

I hate to admit it but as SM it seemed to me that the primary purpose of the OA was to propagate the OA and get summer camp ready. If I were a better leader I might enjoy rebuilding my chapter to be a place to help scouts take useful skills back to their troops. I've just never seen it done this way.

Hi and welcome to the forum,  @OaklandAndy.