MattR

No offense taken. In fact I limit my knots to one row on one shirt that I only wear indoors. Enough to start a conversation if someone is interested.

31 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

So when you see someone with that knot, ask more about their story. Find out who made the donation in order for them to wear it and why.

I have a James E West knot and I have no idea who donated the money for it. I put it on my uniform as a way to say thank you to the donor. So please don't assume it's someone that wants to buy recognition.

Time for a new topic.

I had to pick something up from an old scouter today. I was lamenting the drop in participation and said I was reading some old books from Hillcourt that were just dripping with enthusiasm and adventure. So he said he took Woodbadge with Hillcourt being the SM. That started a discussion. I asked him about a syllabus and he told me it was pretty simple. After months of preparation by the staff he showed up the first night and told everyone there would be no flip charts and all the teaching would be outdoors (chuck all the planning). Each patrol had to teach anything they wanted, as long as it came out of the scout handbook, the patrol leaders handbook, the scoutmaster's handbook, or the field book. Also, whatever they taught had to be in the form of a game. So, basically patrols made up games that taught skills. There might have been more but that was the bulk of it.

So he used that as SM. Patrols made up games that taught skills. And to think that I used to really encourage scouts to make up games that covered skills.

I'm thinking this might be how the next camporee works.

... and the French hate the Germans ...

We were in Prague and saw a fun show. It was for kids. It was mostly a mime but in the beginning they wanted to tell everyone to turn off their cell phones. Rather than just say it they acted it out. The English version was a take off on a California surfer dude. The French version was a take off on someone that was full of himself. The German version was someone that was very stiff and formal, stay within the lines. There were a bunch of German kids there and they loved it all.

41 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I still see the sense of adventure and challenge in our younger Scouts. That is why I enjoy working with them so much.

For our older Scouts (age 15+), I frequently encounter a "too cool for school" attitude that I find super annoying. They hold back and stand on the sidelines, even when they see fantastic adventures passing them by. This attitude problem gets really maddening when it poisons younger Scouts as they age up in the program. I'm trying to remedy this problem and break the cycle.

I see this as well. That's why I started working on teamwork and leadership with just the younger scouts. They are more willing to try something new. It has started to bubble up to a few of the older scouts, so that's good news. I know, it's completely backwards.

27 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

You need to evolve and understand what drives interest or what does not drive interest,  Candidly that varies with your troop and particular group of scouts.  On the Klondike, maybe it has become stale, perhaps it is what some long term adult leaders feel a Klondike should be.  Get feedback on why they do not want to go and do a reboot of the event.

Getting feedback is my problem. I asked scouts for input on what they'd like. I told them everything was on the table. I asked adults what they thought the scouts would like. I got no feedback. So I wrote up some new events and sent them out and asked for feedback. The adults were no help so I took it to the OA meeting and asked the scouts what they thought. They all liked what I wrote. But none of them are showing up. Again, I'd be more than willing to give this over to someone else but there's no interest.

Feedback requires motivation. I don't know how to motivate others. I'll be the first to admit I'm a lousy salesman.

47 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

We're arguably one of the most successful troops in the district and one of the better ones in the council. We can't figure this stuff out.  On top that, training is so basic no-one goes.  Roundtable covers superfluous topics, so no-one goes.

I agree. We're in the same situation. I don't want to take on round table. 

I'd be willing to do roundtable for PLCs. Any PL, SPL, or ASPL is invited? And all we do is make pizza, listen to music, and oh, talk about Spring Camporee. Do you think this would have any chance?

13 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Scouting is a culture that challenges the masculinity of young men

Yes, scouting is supposed to be a challenge, and an adventure. That's how it was sold in the old days. That's how it was 10 years ago. It was the key to motivating the scouts. Make it a challenge, make it fun, train them for the challenge, let them be. Unfortunately things seem to be changing. There seems to be fewer scouts interested in a challenge, at least in my neck of the woods. We used to have 2 high adventure trips a year plus summer camp and all of them were always full. Now it's a struggle to fill one trip a year and summer camp is down. I'm the new district camping chair and this weekend is klondike. We have 38 scouts signed up, for the whole district! I used to have more scouts from just my troop show up. But it's not my troop because nearly half the scouts going to klondike are from my troop. And it's not just the scouts. I didn't really want to be the district camping chair. After 12 years as SM I just wanted a break. I'm the first to admit that someone younger and more enthusiastic would be better. But nobody else will step up.

It's really hard to challenge a young man when this is the attitude.

I don't know, maybe your point has already been made. We've lost. I don't know where that drive that wants a challenge comes from. Where a sense of adventure is born. I just don't see it often in the scouts today. The few I see it in are pushed down by peer pressure. Yes, kids these days are busy. They're so busy they can't even dream. Or wonder. Or imagine anything other than what's on their todo lists. Who knows, maybe national should add a first class requirement to discuss how much free time a scout has and track what he does with it for 12 weeks.

18 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

Which industries. I’m curious. 

Any organization that does research is going to be curious if you have a PhD. They're going to be so curious that putting it as a title will get them to read past your name. Any organization that teaches is going to be curious as to your education. Anyone that deals with regulatory or any required licensing will also want to know. So, scientists, teachers, doctors, lawyers, civil engineers, ....

My son had a problem with selling himself. He also thought it was lame. Fortunately for him he had an experience where he saw first hand what that did to his prospects. He had two interviews. The first one he barely made the cut because he didn't want to tell his story. He thought it was lame to do so. We talked. On the second one he moved from the bottom to the top. This wasn't for a job so it was not such a big deal but it was something he wanted. It was a good lesson.

One thing that isn't mentioned here is that the resume should lead to stories you can tell in the interview. It really helps if you have something to talk about. Scouts is an excellent source of stories.

I think there's still an opportunity to start a much better discussion than whether or not you'll become an eagle scout. If you were an SPL then talk about some skills you developed in that roll. Teamwork, leadership, making things happen, solving problems. That's why someone might hire you, so talk about that. If someone isn't really sure about what eagle means then it might be better to talk about what you've done in words they understand.

And the moral of the story: Have a buddy.

It was a good video.

1 hour ago, Col. Flagg said:

So fast forward to today. She's not happy with girls getting in anymore. Now she wants 1) Girls to get in faster, and/or 2) Girls who have worked on requirements before they are allowed in to get credit for that. 

No...she doesn't want any special treatment

I read a few of those posts and I was confused. How can anyone really get upset about the fact that the BSA is not letting girls into scouts a year earlier than planned? You do podcasts and change.org things for that? I would not want her dad in my troop. I've seen this before. It's never enough until you just roll over and have no standards at all. My child is perfect and who are you to stand in their way? We had a parent/child version of this and it was a nightmare. Now it's a nightmare for the council. They finally made the kid a lone scout so he and dad would quit ruining troops. This has little to do with girls anymore. This is one kid and one dad pushing like hell.

The sad thing is this girl's self worth is going to crash like a kid that just ate a huge bowl of candy.

Sounds odd to me. What exactly is an Eagle Scout Candidate? Is it like being a Parent Candidate? (i.e., pregnant).

But back on point, I've never heard the phrase before, so the guy looking at the resume likely hasn't either. Then it's just drawing their attention away from what's important. If you want to add something then add that you're a Boy Scout. Talk about leadership you've done and responsibility you've held. That would be more concrete than the mythical candidate.

Related story: My council is changing FOS to some other acronym. Not only that but next year each unit will be sent a bill for $200/scout. They can donate the money or sell popcorn or any of the other council fundraising. So last night at our district council meeting we were talking about girls and I asked what the GS council charges each youth. They looked at me funny so I explained to them that there are all these great plans for adding girls but do they know about this charge? If money is an issue and they have to raise $200 per scout to stay in the BSA but could sign up for probably much less if they go with GS, I asked them what they think the parents will do.

There are several board games you can turn into a human form. Battleship, Foosball, and Risk are what we've done. So, for Battlehip hang a tarp to split the "sea", scouts sit in chairs on their side of the sea, put a bunch of balls in there as bombs, and the scouts toss them over the tarp where, if they hit a scout or his chair, he's out. The scouts must stay in their chairs. There's a lot of guessing where the scouts are on the other side of the tarp. The general idea is to make it so everyone moves as often as they can and at the same time. It's no fun to wait.

We've also made fun orienteering courses. Give each patrol a unique course (bearings and distances) through a set of labeled flags. Get points for getting the labels correctly. We did it at halloween once and put scary movie titles on the flags. The best part was always the last point. Each patrol starts from the same spot and there are a bunch of flags out in a field. Each patrol is given a bearing and distance that will put them on one of the flags. It's all about accuracy, and having a bag of candy as the trophy.

That is a really great idea

They must teach something about movies in the UK. When my scouts made movies they were mostly, well, plotless, pointless, and not even slapstick (which I would have really liked).

Anyway, if they start writing REDRUM on the mirror, camp far away.

How often do we get into discussions that boil down to what is going on inside someone's head when they do something? Cross sticks could be hazing or a way to have some innocent fun. Dancing for lost items can be taken as fun or really embarrassing. Is that what's going on here?

How about a different view of this. Suppose a NA tribe decides to use a likeness of Jesus at an event. This could easily go two ways, depending on intent. If it were respectful I'm not sure many Christians would mind. If it were to illustrate peace and love and respect of all people then my guess is most people would be fine with it. Certainly there will always be some that would be upset but for the most part people would be okay.

On the other hand, if it were to mock Christianity then that's a different scenario. It would be in all the newspapers and it would get ugly.

So the question is not should a tribe be allowed to use Jesus, it's how are they going to use Jesus and is it respectful.

Back to the original intent of the OA. There is a certain mystique in NA cultures, just like there is at the root of all cultures, that resonates in a way that words don't. Sometimes it takes more than just talking about an "honor society." Scouts do not respond to talking. They'd rather see it. As a scout I really enjoyed watching the OA ceremonies.

We keep throwing out bits of fun and motivation because someone can abuse it. I think it would be better to get all the people involved to sit down and talk about the good that could come from these things, figure out better ways to convey what's good and bad, and also accept that a few bad situations should not be used to paint an entire organization with a single brush.

9 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

 

"Interpersonal skills" is the number one thing scouts learn.  We can talk leadership and skills, but dealing with people is where scouts shines.  But I do love the canoe trips.    

But a lot of leadership is interpersonal skills.

Either way, I strongly agree with what you say. This is also a difficult idea to get across to parents. Many see the only problems the scouts need to deal with are learning skills and dealing with things other than people, whereas the real rub, and fun, is dealing with people.

1 hour ago, The Latin Scot said:

That sub reddit is wrong. I am IN Orange County Council, and if you read my post earlier in this thread, you will see there is no such fee being charged here.

How about mark Latin Scot's thread the winner and close this thread. A lot of upset people for no reason.

Another thread might be dumb ways councils raise money but it should be kept to real situations and not unverified news.

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

I recall a couple of cabin-camping trips in temperatures around minus-5 degrees, in a barely-heated cabin with no indoor plumbing, that probably should be count-able for advancement, but they aren't.

I'll take below zero in a tent over snoring in a cabin any night of the year.

One way or the other I live in an area where we get cold and so we get the gear to stay warm. We went through a phase where scouts slept in cabins a lot and we just said enough, cabins are for special trips. Sleeping in a cabin is dessert and too much dessert is bad for you. The other side of this is camping in weather where there's little chance of below freezing is also special. Reliably, that's about 3 months a year.

So this has little to do with advancement. We don't give credit for the tent camping requirements and the scouts really don't care. Think of it as a lock in with outdoor activities.

Sorry to hear about your forced vacation, @Cambridgeskip. But the book sounds like a lot of fun. I'm just hoping the main character gets into a lot of trouble along the way. What's the phrase UK scouts uses? Youth formed, or something like that. Maybe she can take her patrol on a ride down a river on a home made raft, as a way to escape the adults! Those were the books I loved as a kid.

15 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

Our Troop cabin camped one time a year - in January.  Had you shared the cabin with us, you would probably have noticed a lot of similarities.  The adults cooked - we used paper products.  It is the only outing where the adults cooked for the Scouts and we used paper products.  Most of this was due to logistical issues

We camped in a cabin in December with the same logistical issues. The scouts decided that each patrol would cook a different meal. They did set up wash stations and each scout cleaned his own mess kit. Because the scouts were cooking for so many there were some adults that did some "constructive questioning." Some of it was a bit more than I'd have liked but it all worked out well, the scouts learned some good things about cooking for a big group, we ate well and we had a lot of fun.

Maybe they're like kids, you have to do it rather than talk about it. I'd start with an easy hike. At the end cook a meal in a dutch oven. Set up a tent. Hang out around a fire eating smores and telling stories. Then send them home. If they want to sleep in the tent they're welcome to it, and a really great meal for breakfast. Part of the method is camaraderie.  Get them to live that part. That's what the scouts like.

Same as LeCastor, when I started as SM they had a few MB meetings. I pointed out to the scouts that less than 10% of the scouts that sat through those meetings actually completed the MB. I asked if maybe doing the fun parts and making the boring parts available with a counselor might not be better. They agreed. Now that I've stepped down there has been a surge is efficiency in planning meetings (they just pick a MB). Seems great but it's been 6 months and now it's starting to be not so much fun. Why it's taken this long is another very good question.