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MattR

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Posts posted by MattR

  1. We did the Wind River Range in Wyoming. That was where the bugs were but it was stunning. My understanding is that the start of August would be fine there but don't quote me on that. We tried to do a 50 mile loop in about 6 days and we were just beating ourselves up. My GPS said we were doing something like 500' vertical for every mile horizontal. So about a mile vertical every day. We finally decided to cut a corner off of our loop and make it 38 miles or something. The scouts started smiling. Now, this was all because I, the old man in the crowd, pulled a muscle in my knee because I wasn't drinking enough. (First of all, who has ever pulled a muscle in their knee? Second, do as I say, not as I do. Finally, they did start smiling after I hurt myself, so that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.)

    Anyway, Wyoming might be quicker to get to from DIA but there are more towns and fun things to see in Southern Colorado. We have done backpacking trips that are 5 days or so and then we add on something fun like river rafting. It's a nice mix of pushing yourself and then just having fun.

    We did another trip in the Frying Pan wilderness somewhat close to Aspen and then spent a couple of days in Glenwood Springs. The only problem we had was we wanted a loop and couldn't find one so we bushwacked over a pass. Not exactly the safest thing with all the loose rock but that was just 2 hours out of the whole trip. The most incredible part of that trip was waking up at 2am to pee and seeing the stars. I've never seen clouds of stars before. It was so dark at night and there was no moon. I just stood there and stared up until I froze and jumped back in my tent. I should have just dropped my tent but for some reason we were expecting rain.

    Thanks for the memories!

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  2. There are a lot of nice backpacking trails in Colorado. So much that I've never been to Philmont. Philmont isn't about beauty, so I understand why scouts would like it.

    To answer your question, no, I haven't taken scouts to the San Juans. So you can get better specific trail information from others. However, in other HA trips I've taken scouts in Colorado and Wyoming, the things I'd be aware of is that

    1) June in the high country is not summer, it's late winter/early spring and I've had 10 foot snow drifts to deal with over July 4th. Given the run off, trails can be very wet and muddy.

    2) The biggest mistake we ever made was to go backpacking about 2 weeks after everything thawed out. Talk about mosquitoes. A few of the scouts also did the boundary waters before our trip and they said the mosquitoes in Southern Wyoming were much worse. Two weeks later and they would have mostly been gone.

    3) Altitude sickness is real and random. Scouts that are carrying extra body weight can really suffer going up those hills when they have half the oxygen they're used to. Dehydration and lightning.

    4) All that bad stuff said, the views are incredible. The scouts may not respond like the adults but they will remember. Years later I've talked to a few and they now have an appreciation of nature. Something stuck with them, even if part of it was playing cards in their tents while waiting out rain or bugs.

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  3. 5 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

    How much FOS goes to camp vs professional salaries? They truly care more about staff salaries

    Well, when salary has to be made every 2 weeks and camp can sit for 9 months, it's easy to see why this happens. I'm sure it's easy to get addicted to donations. From '45 to the late 60's I'm sure they got all they asked for. But that gravy train is long gone. And yet the culture of rewards is still based on donations. In the meantime, there are fewer volunteers with less outdoor knowledge that need more help in order to deliver a better program.

    That's a lot of change needed.

    As implied above, the real challenge is getting leadership to see that the leadership isn't working. Who wants to admit that their leadership is dragging the organization down? ... that their way of doing things hasn't changed much for the better in a very long time? While I've been fine with the membership changes I've never really thought they were going to make a big change in numbers. The BSA leadership was absolutely convinced the changes would solve all their problems. I was hopeful when Mosby was made head honcho but it's been crickets since then.

    I'm not sure there is anyone that understands all the issues and has the authority to change things. At least not yet. My guess is that there are a few on the national board that know all about these issues but until the rest of the leadership is willing to listen it's just wishful thinking.

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  4. 4 hours ago, scoutldr said:

    You are NOT covered by BSA insurance and, as you pointed out, a "broad release" form would be worthless.  I would cancel everything until a new CO is found, or transfer to a unit in good standing.

    Or call it an official church youth group activity? Leave the uniforms and handbooks at home, have fun, play in the outdoors. If the church is up for accepting the responsibility then it's all good. If not, it's an opportunity to fix something that has been broken for quite some time.

     

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  5. 2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

    BSA was much better off stating that no one has enough money to compensate abuse survivors. 

    I was wondering where this change came from and all I can think of is that people who feel trapped in a corner don't have free will. What looks like grasping at straws may be a response to something else. Maybe, since the vote, a bunch of CO's no longer believe the BSA's promises. Losing a lot of CO's would cause even more problems. The only way to protect the CO's is to cover their portion and the only way to do that is to say all the money we have, or could possibly get, is enough.

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  6. National provides something else besides IP, they provide exclusivity. That means no competition for both youth and donors. Anyone can start a franchise if that goes away.

    Think about @Jameson76's council under that change. Parents do like the idea of scouts but they might go elsewhere if the summer camp is more fun and less classroom. And what might the donors start doing with some competition? I think that might cause more fear to CE's. When push comes to shove, CE's probably need donors more than camps.

     

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  7. 3 hours ago, vol_scouter said:

    Scouting would no longer be the same everywhere because the authority to have one set of requirements would be replaced by local variations.  My opinion is that it would be a far less desirable situation than now.  However, these lawsuits will not end the movement - Scouting will go on.

    The same was said when Ma Bell was broken up,

  8. 15 hours ago, DuctTape said:

    "should" being the key word.

    We must also remember that many Scouters are little more than "tenderfoots" themselves.

    I agree. We had a botanist in our troop that made nature MB fun for everyone. He'd get everyone looking at flowers, counting stamens and pistils and then classifying plants based on that. We were all blown away.

    While I really appreciate nature, I also appreciate my limits of knowledge. MB classes get boring when the counselor uses the pamphlet to learn the material.

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  9. 7 hours ago, elitts said:

    That would be like saying older, beat up cars are linked with car accidents.  There is a link, but not because older cars actually cause accidents, it's because young new drivers are prone to accidents so parents buy them older beat up cars.

    I don't know, I've never seen a wheel fall off a newer car or an engine fire from a fuel line not properly reinstalled. Older cars need more maintenance, maintenance costs money, people think "how hard could it be?", accidents happen. Is that causal?

  10. 19 hours ago, skeptic said:

    It occurs to me that we might want to consider either shutting this down, or finding a way to avoid emotional overloads for some victims or others.  Obvioously, the thread has a detrimental effect on a few, and they seem wont to take it out on other posters, often making unfair attacks on those that are fortunate to not have suffered the specific taumas that trigger some.  

    As I have suggested before, we all have things in our lives that are bad memories and possibly serious pychological and maybe even physical traumas.  How they affect us differs, and some of us prefer to not talk much of these things, and perhaps are fortunate to not be "triggered".  That is not a reason to accuse us of ignoring other forum posters' pain.  

    Few of us are qualified to measure the damages inferred on here, nor do we intentionally intend comments to hurt others.  

    If the moderators have some idea how to deal, it may be time to do so.  Just my personal view, and I hope I will not be once again be accused of not caring and other worse things.  Thanks for the time.

    How to deal with it may just involve reviewing the scout oath and law. I once had some scouts telling jokes that others found really offensive. I didn't think the jokes were that bad but, and this is what I told the tellers of the joke, that comedy has a very fine line between funny and pain. The hard part about humor is guessing how people will hear your jokes. You never know. The right thing to do when someone says your joke went too far is to be courteous, apologize and move on.

    As you said, many here have their own traumas to deal with and don't want to share the details. And that's okay.

    It's all about being kind, courteous and helpful.

  11. But most COs don't have the desire, energy or whatever to be responsible so the simplest response is not to charter units. I don't see any councils that have those resources either. So where does that leave us? It could just be much smaller and better than before, fewer COs/units of higher quality. It would be nice if National had some way to develop that but let's be real, who is going to say fewer, better units is the better approach? Hence, that's why I think the facility use agreement is a bandaid.

    BSA is focused on the short-term of just getting through the bankruptcy and I understand that, but unless they also take a long view they'll be back in the same situation. Assuming they want to grow they need to find a practical way to ensure good oversight. 

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  12. 13 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

    If the issue is found with a unit not following rules ... then the CO should be considered liable

    I completely agree with this. However, there does need to be a discussion of what that practically entails. What's the true cost of chartering a troop or pack and if there's only a facility use agreement then who is going to cover those costs? Someone needs to be responsible, at the unit level, to make sure the rules are followed and the scouters are of good character. I assume that's the major cause of failure.

    Our CO insists on a COR that they trust go to the majority of events as they want to see the adults and scouts in action that they signed up to watch over. Who at the council will cover this if it's a facility only agreement?

    The facility use agreement is a bandaid trying to fix a much bigger problem. When I was an SM I felt responsible for every scout as if they were my kid. New adults got extra attention not just because I was trying to be helpful.

    This comment is less about the legal aspects and more about running a program parents will feel comfortable with.

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  13. On 12/31/2021 at 1:57 PM, IrrationalGoat said:

    However, as we've been growing, I have noticed that with about a dozen scouts at every meeting, each scout is getting less participation time and seems less engaged. I often see scouts daydreaming or half-falling asleep during meetings (especially PLCs). I think that implementing the Patrol Method is integral to seeing the troop succeed, but I have no idea how to do that!

    One thing that you didn't describe in your description of how your troop operates is how the plc evaluates how much fun the scouts really had. Something I've noticed in my troop is that the plc gets so focused on organizing an event that their definition of success is just having an event run. Whether half the scouts were bored to tears is not noticed. Getting an honest opinion from the scouts isn't as easy as one might hope. One patrol or two, you need honest feedback. 

    Boring meetings or campouts usually stem from scouts passively sitting around during the event. Lecturing to teach skills will do that. Making a game of the skill will make it more fun. That takes a lot of effort.

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  14. 25 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

    Has anyone heard anything from their LC expressing concern if the vote fails and the plan falls apart? 

    I am sure SE talk amongst themselves and realize a failed plan would open up LC to lawsuits depending on state law windows.

    How worried are LC's? The ones around me do not show it if they are.

    I assume they have as much access to that information as we do. So, they're likely scrambling about figuring out how to deal with losses from covid. I do know that my council has lost staff. Whether they were laid off or found better jobs, I don't know.

  15. @IrrationalGoat welcome to the forum. And thank you so much for writing. You're enthusiastic and are taking ownership. Honestly, your post is one of the best things I've seen lately. I'd certainly like to help out at your troop.

    But, to try and answer your questions. First of all, the patrol method is to help you delegate work so you don't burn out, which sounds like an issue. Adults like single patrols because it makes it easier for them. The problem, as you're finding, is that the scouts are getting bored. You're not bored at all, you're getting run ragged. That's because you're owning everything and doing all the planning.

    The main idea of patrol method is that each patrol has its own leadership that takes care of planning and running events that bring the program to those scouts. The work they do is work you don't have to do. It's a win for them because it alleviates their boredom from not having anything useful to do and it's a win for you because they do some of the work. So patrols help share work.

    Another great use of patrols is enabling fun and scouting has been called fun with a purpose. Competition between patrols can be fun. Patrol skits can make campouts fun. Having a smaller, tighter group of friends that patrols support can be fun.

    Notice that I've been real fuzzy about how much the patrols can do on their own. That depends on their maturity as a team and leadership. The more they can handle the less you have to, so it's really important that you develop the patrols and help them learn and grow. Your job is to work yourself out of your job, while caring for all those under you.

    Can they handle their own meals on campouts? Can they help their own patrol members advance? Can they create fun events for meetings and campouts? Each of these are hard enough to teach them if they've never done it before, so don't take it all on at once.

    I mentioned that patrols need to grow and learn. That applies to you as well. It also applies to the adults in your troop. Everyone needs to get on the same page about what each leader can do, what they need help with and the direction they're growing.

    One thing I've intentionally stayed away from is how you form your patrols. There is a way the BSA  wants you to do it. I'll leave it at that.

    Good luck.

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