lrsap

It was fantastic! Our spot was beautifully nestled in some tall pines, and the weather was great. The first thing that happened was a zipper breaking on the tent door my PL son and the QM were using for the weekend. They broke out the duct tape and spare bed sheet to make a new door. The best part, no complaints! Just dealing with it. Although they did end up a bit more bitten than the rest of us.

Watching the two of them cook breakfast Saturday morning was one of the best Scouting experiences of my life. Just something about watching an 11 & 12 year-old working camp stoves and just, well, doing what they needed to do to feed the patrol was a feeling I have a real hard time putting into words. The Dad part of me that realizes he loses the little boy more and more each day took a serious hit, but I was also very proud of both of them. I know to some here who have done this a million times may think I'm a little silly gushing about scrambled eggs and bacon, but it was great.

In between our days events, we had a new to Scouting 11 y.o. set up the lunches for the patrol, and he was very eager to pitch in and do his part. The afternoon hit, and my ASM got to experience the first Leader Camp Nap in our history. Don't worry, I got her picture for COH.

After one of our 15 y.o. boys made chili for dinner (with some help from a couple of newer boys), we settled around a small campfire for a couple of hours. I was feeling bad for a minute that I didn't have the boys work on some kind of campfire program, but the bad feeling didn't last long. I was there to see our new troop/patrol bond by just being together, laughing at silly things, and by the end of the night giving each other nicknames that have stuck. One of my best campfires ever.

On Sunday morning the older boys took charge of organizing the clean up and pack out, so all I had to do was load my gear and drink a cup of coffee. Oh, and collect some ashes from our first campfire. Almost walked away forgetting that one. I can't wait to give them out at the next meeting.

So how did it go? To me, Scouting has never been better. I can't wait for next month.

While my impression is that these events are low in quality and shorting boys of the true MB experience, I have never actually seen one for myself. With our brand new troop just starting out, I feel I would not want our boys attending one if I had my choice.

But my suggestion would be do what I plan on doing. I plan on attending and observing one before I allow a scout in our troop to attend. I feel it would be unfair of me to judge these events without first seeing one myself. If I am somehow pleasantly surprised, and see good instruction, small groups and a quality experience for the boys attending, I may change my thinking.

But I don't think that will happen.

"I went in for the day to lead a hike and was told that they were having movie night tonight because of weather conditions. The wind is blowing 30-40+ mph all day today. Not safe to have a campfire, storms are threatening tonight. Lost 4 tents due to the winds and damaged 4 more in the winds, probably about $750 in damages. The troop ended taking what was left of the tents down and moving into the recreation building they're camping beside. They are making the best of a bad night."

This was a reply to a thread about movies at camp, but when I read it I was surprised there was not one response as to the wisdom of continuing with the trip in the first place. To be fair to trainerlady, I admittedly have no idea as to the circumstances surrounding this event. Weather can be a strange thing and the worst storms can come up out of nowhere. And if you find yourself in that situation, staying put in secure shelter is almost always a better option than trying the roads to go home.

But if there was a weather report or two before the trip that would have alerted someone to the type of weather they could face, why in the world would you continue? We can talk all we want about having a "never say die" attitude and never, EVER quitting on a camping trip. Supposedly it would show the boys weakness. But what about showing good judgement and common sense? If the storm was bad enough to cause so much damage, then you surely have a safety issue.

And while not even in the same world as important as safety, what about the equipment? The $750 in equipment lost came out of somebody's pocket, and that in itself is not a responsibility to be taken lightly.

So for you, what does it take in terms of weather reports for you to cancel a camping trip or outing?

And specifically to trainerlady, I want to say again that the scenario of prior knowledge is purely a hypothetical assumption on my part. The fact that you went out to lead a day hike suggests the opposite to be true.

Well, the patrol patches are on order. The emblem they decided on was a monkey riding a sea horse. A manly sea horse, of course. And I know what you are talking about with the flag. They have finally decided on the material, a bright....no, make that BRIGHT yellow duck cloth. Goes with the whole "golden" thing.

I'll post some pictures when the patches come in.

What will be really interesting is the scrambled eggs they will be making at their first breakfast on their first camping trip as a patrol this Saturday.

Being a new troop, I made a deal with my scouts and their parents. The door will never be locked, but we will always start on time. If the boys are late, they're late. No punishment or discipline, but I sure hope they didn't miss something really good because when it's done it's done. If they NEED to know it, that is up to the PL if he wants to offer the scout what he missed.

But as I have asked for my time to be respected, I told them I will also always have respect for their time as well. By the 90th minute at the latest, the door is locked and we are walking to the car. If I can't figure out a way to make sure the boys to get everything they need in 90 minutes, that's my problem. It just means that either I or the SPL have homework to do that week, depending on what didn't get done.

All that said, 90 minutes really does seem to be about how long it takes to get from hello to good night. When the boys are running the show, something that would take us 5 minutes can sometimes take 10 or 12. But that doesn't mean there won't be the occasional 60-70 minute night. Sometimes those games the boys thought would be great turn out to be duds, or they get through things a little quicker than they thought. Every once in a while an early night isn't a bad thing.

Our pack ended up being double-billed at a home improvement store with a local troop one year. We were the second ones to ask, and the troop even had a letter from the store when they asked. After all that, they still offered us a door. VERY scout-like behavior. We politely thanked them for the offer, but moved on because it was rightfully theirs. Two years later that troop got four boys from my den instead of the troop we were supposed to be feeding. Just goes to show, you never know.

Not to mention the place we moved on to that day did a couple hundred dollars better than we would have ever imagined getting at the start of the day.

Side note, different year, different event. Scouting for Food. Yes, a service project. Our CM lives in a place we never tried before, and she never saw a scout collecting since she lived there. So of course a couple of Scouters from a local troop saw a few of our boys dropping off bags and proceeded to yell at the boys about how this had been "their territory" for years and they weren't allowed to collect food there. Even better, the CM got a call from the DE that afternoon because of the complaints he received from the Scouters. DE is a good guy, so he just told the CM all was good, and thanks for the community service and that he would handle the blowhards.

And no, this troop did not receive any scouts from our pack. You reap what you sow.

The "mandatory" wearing of the uniform on all trips has always been interesting to me. I'm not talking about a trip where the troop is going to a district or council event, or where the trip may include stops along the way. In both of those cases, being identified as a unit or a Boy Scout troop has its advantages. I'm talking about the troop camping trip that is a 90 minute drive from gathering to campsite or trail. How would you explain to a boy why you need to wear the shirt for a car ride, take it off and leave it in the car so it doesn't get dirty, then put it on for the car ride home.

Heck, I would like someone to explain the benefit to me.

"Ideally after the BOR the scout should immediately receive his rank insignia. I know most troops don't do this, but this is a best practice in my opinion."

The fact that most troops don't makes no sense to me either. Why in the world would you want a boy to wear a patch for anywhere up to 6 months that does not represent his true rank? Not to mention the possible limitations it could present a young 1st Class Scout that is forced to wear his 2nd Class rank until BOR. How many things can you think of that have the requirement of at least 1st Class where the only proof a kid has is the patch on his shirt?

Being a Floridian I can definitely sympathize. Hunker down, keep safe and we will keep everyone's spot at the campfire warm.

"I wish National would release an "Outdoors" MB with each "Indoors" one. "

That might be one of the best ideas I've ever seen on these forums.

I would say one good use of a chessboard might be that 40 minute, mid-afternoon rain shower during summer camp. I am in no way a great player, but I do enjoy a game every now and then, and I appreciate some of the things (strategy, planning, concentration, etc.) it can teach.

NOT a good use of a chessboard? Summer camp Chess Merit Badge class.

I am so glad I ran into this thread. I was about to run a training session to go with our election this week, and I like this much better than the old one.

Thanks!

Golden Sea Monkey Patrol?? Really??? Oh well, just have to keep repeating to myself, "It's their game, not mine.....it's their game, not mine...."

I thought I would check in on this thread, since we finally had our first troop meeting last night. We have actually started with 7 boys, and we hear more are on the way. It's just amazing how long it takes to actually get a unit off the ground when you want to be truly ready to go.

While I think we got off on a good start, it's already been an eye-opening experience. You would think after some years of leadership as well as leadership at work I would know better, but it's amazing how much I didn't get to last night. You can tell by all the email I sent tonight.

I have to say what made me the happiest was watching the boys interact so well with one another, even the ones that just met that night. And even better, they were very VERY engaged in their patrol meeting working on a patrol name and yell. Maybe next week we will see if they can come up with something appropriate. Oh well, gotta love it.

So the adventure has begun, and we are looking forward to our first camping trip. Funny thing is when I brought up the cooking, you should have heard the disappointment when I said Ramen noodles don't really cut it. So I gave in a little and said as long as they were part of a recipe then go for it. Honestly, I'm just happy they are already showing their true selves.

WISH US LUCK!

Callooh, that was a great post. We bemoan the numbers of today's youth that are not in BSA today, yet think they should scout like it was thirty or forty years ago. That is not to say we don't challenge them or offer adventure. It just means we realize it is their program, not ours.

Instead of banning cell phones, which is "easier", we can use them as a tool ourselves. If a scout breaks out a cell phone when you don't think he should, that could be a subtle sign about the program itself. An engaged scout would be less likely to break out a cell phone than a bored one.

Not to mention that for many scouts these days, their cell phone is the only camera they have. Not only would we not think twice about wanting a scout to take pictures of his adventures, these days they can take the picture and send it out to the masses with captions like "Look at what I'm doing right now!"

I actually like the way you describe the Journalism MB experience. Probably one of the best ways to tell if a MB was a quality experience is to ask the parents what the scout told them upon arriving home. Did he say, "We went all over the camp, and then we interviewed everyone including the camp director which was really cool, and then we worked out all of the stories to make them fit, and then we printed the camp newspaper, and then we delivered it to all the campsites, and then...and then....".

Or did he say, "Uh, I got this merit badge."

I definitely feel for the guy, but I can't help to draw the parallel to the "make sure you don't have your pocketknife in your backpack" talk we give Cub Scouts during Whitlin' Chip instruction.

Kudu,

I'm happy to know the idea I had about not worrying about an SPL until we had at least two patrols is shared by some others. When I first heard about the Life Scout coming over my first thought was "Great, here's a kid that can do SPL". But after giving it about 5 minutes of thought realized it wasn't such a great idea. Just seems to me if you are an SPL over one patrol you are less leading and more left out.

Besides, the last thing I want to do is start out with bad habits by appointing a kid to a POR.

Now if I could just get one of my well-intention'ed scouters in the new troop to realize the "troop trailer" is a lot less necessary than he thinks it is.........

Thank you very much and I fully agree that these older boys do need to do their part in leading the younger scouts. My thoughts are running exactly in line with the point you made that I don't want to get caught in the trap of burdening them with work that borders on babysitting. The approach of treating them like 35 YO is one I hadn't thought of, but now that I do makes a whole lot of sense. The "not teaching a square knot" thing is along the lines of not doing something for a boy he can do himself. While a Life Scout can teach a square knot with the best of them, so can a Tenderfoot. I guess what I was getting at was I want the Life Scout teaching the Tenderfoot things he doesn't know, and let the younger boys pass on the knowledge and skills they have acquired to the fresh faces we will eventually have join us.

To keep the older boys motivated, and not feel like it's all work and now play, any input regarding experience with designing a higher level program for just two would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and Eagledad, about the part of the boys teaching me a thing or two, I don't doubt it one bit. Every day is a school day, and you never know who your teacher is going to be.

Hello all, I'm looking for a little advice and I know this is the right place. With our new troop opening up soon, I have an opportunity I didn't envision when we began planning. The original thought was that when we started, we were going to be a small group of scouts no older than 12 and no rank higher than 2nd Class. Because of that, we had a good handle on how to approach the camping and outdoor program.

Now surprise (funny how that happens ) we will also be opening our doors with a 15 YO Life Scout and his 15 YO friend who is 1st Class. Both are well experienced in the outdoor method and have a strong set of skills.

First of all, I am extremely fortunate at this set of circumstances. I had no idea either would be interested in our new troop and it is a new SM's dream to receive this gift of experienced scouts. Some of the things I was planning on having to teach and implement personally in terms of camping and skills can now be boy-led, and that is something worth celebrating.

My issue is developing an elevated outdoor program for just two boys. The troop will be one patrol until we grow, and they of course will have their patrol responsibilities. But the last thing I want to do is saddle down a couple of boys with the responsibility of showing the young ones the ropes without the opportunity for some more adventurous fun on their own.

Part of my goal for this is to make sure I only have them teach what the others can't. My best example is I told them I don't ever want to see them teaching a square knot unless it's absolutely necessary. But what are some ideas you might have for keeping the two boys engaged when this is something normally thought of in patrol-type numbers?

This is part of the reason we are starting a new troop. My son became disenchanted with the MB methodology of the first troop we joined. One of the ASMs asked me "Have you signed up for your 30 yet?" Meaning, the adult leadership in the troop registered as MBC for up to 30 MB, thereby controlling the MB process from beginning to end. What this meant was MB class troop meetings. Also, it means my son has his Canoeing MB and is still a bit nervous when getting into a canoe.

When he tried another troop, and one of the first things he experienced was Citz in Comm class troop meetings, it was our sign to start something fresh. I am in NOOOOOO way saying I'm the best thing since slice bread in terms of Scouting, and I feel it is possible on rare occasions MBs can be troop events (First Aid, and if the boys come up with the idea and they do the planning). But when I look at the Canoeing MB on his sash and know he wouldn't know a j-stroke from a jay bird, I know he got cheated.

As SM of a new troop starting next month, we have the unique opportunity of not breaking any bad habits. The adult Scouters associated with this troop are all friends and dedicated. Our trick will be to create an environment that acknowledges everybody's individual approach to leadership and organization, while at the same time realizing there will be others that will eventually replace us. If we create a model that works, people will be more willing to use it and even improve upon it in the same friendly vein.

It reminds me of the argument against regimented adult-led troop meetings that focus on merit badges. Boys spend all day in school, they don't want more school. Adults spend all day at work, the last thing we want is another work environment. So, can you make sure all the "business" gets done in a "cozy" environment? To me, that is the ultimate goal.

It goes into my philosophy about Scout leadership:

"Take it serious, without taking yourself too seriously"

During my den's Bear year, I taught them the concept of "Dress right". It was a great way to get them in line and paying attention. It worked really well during awards presentations at Pack Meetings.

The most important thing to remember is if the boys are not having fun, you're doing it wrong. Teach them the moves then let the denner lead, or give each boy a chance to call the group. And keep a smile on your face. If you start to channel your inner drill instructor, you're REALLY doing it wrong.

There have been many times on this forum where someone posts a question based on what another person said is a "rule". The advice most commonly given is to ask the person quoting the questionable rule is "tell me where its written". I happen to think this is fantastic advice.

But the scenario I believe all of us envision is an adult-to-adult conversation. How would you feel if, in your role as adult leader, a youth presents the same challenge to you when you speak of a Scouting "rule"? Are we above reproach, never to be questioned by the youth we lead? Or can we swallow our pride and handle to ego bruise when a boy happened to be correct where we were wrong? And how do we react when we were correct and the Scout was wrong, and we can in fact show them where its written?

My original thought is that I would have no with a Scout challenging me to back up what I say provided he did so in a respectful manner. But then it occurred to me, shouldn't we be doing this when engaging in this type of conversation with each other?

There have been many times on this forum where someone posts a question based on what another person said is a "rule". The advice most commonly given is to ask the person quoting the questionable rule is "tell me where it's written". I happen to think this is fantastic advice.

But the scenario I believe all of us envision is an adult-to-adult conversation. How would you feel if, in your role as adult leader, a youth presents the same challenge to you when you speak of a Scouting "rule"? Are we above reproach, never to be questioned by the youth we lead? Or can we swallow our pride and handle to ego bruise when a boy happened to be correct where we were wrong? And how do we react when we were correct and the Scout was wrong, and we can in fact show them where it's written?

My original thought is that I would have no with a Scout challenging me to back up what I say provided he did so in a respectful manner. But then it occurred to me, shouldn't we be doing this when engaging in this type of conversation with each other?

Also, if someone can tell me why I can reply but get syntax errors when trying to start a new thread, I would be most appreciative. That was my original plan.

From their Uniform Guidelines section of the web site:

"We like to be the only troop in FULL uniform...."

" In addition to its obvious functionality, it is still the broad-brimmed hat which makes Troop 238 stand out from other troops in camp or at a parade."

I know troops with this type of mentality. It's not only about making sure the boys in the troop are as good as they can be, pleasure is taken in being better than anyone else. Then we will make sure to let you know.

Sounds like adults "living the dream" to me.