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Posts posted by Liz

  1. 23 hours ago, Treflienne said:

    A rule of thumb for girls:  (I used this for Girl Scout badge sashes/vests).   The mom can estimate the daughter's eventual size based on the mom's size.  Girls will typically reach full height about the same age the mom did,  by about age 13 or 14, but will continue to fill out a little width-size.   So, as a mother,  if you wear the same size you did as a college student,  try on the sash, and pick the size that fits you for your daughter.  If you are a little larger than when you were a college student, then consider sizing down for your daughter.  If you are really petite and your husband is really tall, then consider sizing up for your daughter. 

    Or maybe there is a female scout in the troop who is the size you were when you were a senior in high school -- find out what size sash that scout is wearing.

    If unsure, err or the side of too long rather than too short.  You can always shorten it later.

    "If you are a little larger than when you were a college student, then consider sizing down for your daughter. " - You just made me spit out my beverage on my laptop. LOL.

    I wish I were only a "little" larger than I was in college. ;)

    I am, however, about 4" taller than my mother. I was teeny as a child, and I remember my mom tucking me in and crying on my 12th birthday because I was not yet 5 feet tall and she'd stopped growing at age 12 so she didn't think I'd ever hit 5 feet. I grew almost 3" the following year, and approximately another inch per year until I was about 16 or 17, then slowed down and finally stopped when I got pregnant with my first kid at 19. I topped out at 5'6" before a car accident and spinal injury took part of that last inch away from me. My sister is 5'5" but was tall as a child and followed my mom's growth pattern of stopping growth at age 12. I think my mom is 5'2". But my dad is 6'3" Or was, pre- osteoporosis.

    Anyway, my girls aren't genetically related to me or anybody else I know, or to each other for that matter, so it's all guesswork anyway. 🤷‍♀️

    I'm definitely not going to buy the 30". Just toying with the idea of whether to go straight for the 40" sash. I think I had a 30" for my oldest child, which was not real tall, and I ended up upgrading and moving all her merit badges to a longer sash very quickly. I started out with the 36" one for my 2nd kid, and he was 6'3" by the time he aged out of Scouting. I don't remember it ever looking too short on him. But I'm not real sure how often he wore it at that age. The older kids were very active in the OA and wore that sash a lot more often than their merit badge sash. It's also possible that he just stopped wearing it when it got too short. LOL.

  2. I suppose that's possible. I always figured you start going down the back side of the sash if you fill it up, and the sash length should have more to do with the height of the Scout. 

    My daughter is unlikely to fill up even a 30" sash and I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if she is motivated enough to reach Life rank. But I think she'll do Scouting until she ages out, and then I'll let her decide whether to apply for an extension (she is autistic and has some very significant learning delays & moderate social delays) but I think at that point she probably won't be interested.  I'm more concerned with making sure I get a sash is long enough it won't look silly on her when she's 16 or 17 years old. 

  3. So the Sash now comes in 3 sizes - 30, 36, and 40 inches.

    I think it only used to come in 30 and 36 inch sizes. Am I remembering right? 

    So the 40 is probably only for fluffier Scouts? Is 36 still considered the best size for most kids? 

    My daughter is 10 and is already 5 feet tall, and pretty slender. She will be crossing over in a few months. It's hard to know whether she'll stop growing in a few years like many girls do, or whether she's going to maintain her 100th percentile for height into her teen years. But I have a hard time believing she'll ever be tall enough to need a 40" sash. Thoughts? 

  4. On 9/27/2020 at 8:08 AM, BlueandSilverBear said:

    Haha that’s what the lady at the Scout Shop said, too! Honestly, I’ll be happy to jump in wherever I’m needed.

    I haven’t bought a uniform yet, but I rounded up a bunch of old patches at my parents’ house just in case. We’re in the same Council where I was a scout, so I’m planning on rocking my 1990s CSP and early-2000s Lodge flap. 

    Next weekend we’re going to a one day mini-day camp at one of our Council camps. The same camp where I went to day camp, camped with my Troop, took and staffed our Council pre-NYLT course, and completed my Ordeal. The same camp where my grandfather went to summer camp.

    Once you are in the OA, you have lifetime access to it and can re-join it at any time as an adult. If you haven't yet, this is a great time to renew your OA membership and yes, rock that ancient lodge flap!

  5. 1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

    Our postmodern zeitgeist tells us that it's not the intent of the actor, rather how ones words or actions are perceived, that defines appropriation.  So, even if your Pack comes up with something they all agree is inoffensive (i.e. works for the culture of your Pack), anybody from outside that takes offense at the action has the postmodern moral high ground.  


    Well, maybe "less culturally charged than a script that refers to the young Scouts as 'Braves'" would have been more descriptive of what I'm looking for.

    It is true that pretty much everything we do has cultural origins from somewhere. That is unavoidable. But I'm not really worried about a group of white kids (all the families in our Pack currently are as pale as the snow, as the fact is we don't live in a very racially diverse community) doing something that heralds back to Vikings or the ancient Celts. I am concerned about the perception that as we stand on the soil that was previously occupied by the Kalapuya Nation until our own (well, my own) direct ancestors arrived about 170 years ago and displaced them, we specifically call out Native American traditions and pretend that what we are doing is copying what they did, when in fact we haven't done a lick of research, made up the ceremony ourselves, and wouldn't really have any cultural right to use theirs even if we did know anything about what their traditions entailed.

    I'm not one to see cultural appropriation behind every rock and bush, but at the same time, I think it's always appropriate to be sensitive to our neighbors.

  6. I am definitely just looking for something short, and just didn't really want to write it myself. I found something I think will work with some minor edits. 

    Many cultures worldwide have historically used symbolic face painting, including (but not limited to) NA, Celtic, and African tribes. So I don't see any reason why such a ceremony should be tied to any particular culture other than Scout culture. It seems much safer in terms of not stepping on the toes of people whose culture the participants don't belong to, to just make it about Scouts and not about NA cultures. I was surprised to find that most of the scripts I pulled up on the Web were comparing the Scouts to "braves" and the face painting to a NA ceremony. 😕 

    I want a script because with social distancing it's going to be the parent performing the face painting. I don't want to put the mom on the spot to make something up while holding some face crayons in her hand. LOL!

    Thanks! I think I've got something now. 

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  7. Hey! Our previous Pack did face painting at every rank advancement, and our Cubmaster had a set of scripts from *somewhere* that I really liked. But now that I search for face painting scripts for Webelos I'm finding stuff that is full of half-assed and stereotypical Native American references. I wouldn't necessarily mind NA references if it was done well, but to avoid even the appearance of cultural appropriation I'd prefer a face painting ceremony script that is culturally neutral. That is what we had - no references to or copies of any specific cultural face painting that I recall.

    I have messaged my previous Cubmaster but I'm not sure I'll get an answer quickly enough as we had a kiddo earn Webelos at the very last minute and we have a Pack meeting on Monday!

    He had a set of these scripts that he made copies of, and they had diagrams of the different face paint designs for the different ranks... he got them from somewhere. Help?

  8. I never said not to share opinions. :) Just that this wasn’t what I was looking for. I’m not inclined to dictate what people can and cannot post in reply. Opinions are at least interesting. 

    The policy, as you state, is clear and doesn’t give exceptions, even logical ones. But the FAQ definitely makes a few exceptions, and in the example of a sleepover, it says “if” the friend is a Scout then the policy should be followed. 

    Fortunately we have 3 adults in our household and 2 of us are registered Scouters. But I have no issue abiding by the example in the FAQ. We recently had a Scout come over for a sleep-over, but because her mom (also a Scouter) is single if my daughter were going over to their house I would stay over too in order to comply. I’m fine with that. 

    The challenge I’m having is where in between the “this is the exception” and “this is the rule” should the line be drawn. Clearly the BSA intends us to make exceptions. I’m interested in whether they’ve documented anything to tell us where the line is, as they’ve only given us two examples of exceptions. 




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  9. The policy states no one on one contact with registered youth inside or outside of Scouting. The FAQ makes exceptions for if it’s necessary to your career or if it’s your own child; but those are not part of the written policy and in fact by the letter of the policy they are contradictory.  FAQs are not intended to answer all questions about policies, just the frequent ones. So the lack of clarification on adult family members other than legal guardians doesn’t mean much, if anything. 

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  10. 1 hour ago, qwazse said:

    An adult sibling serves as a designated guardian. E.g., on the permission slip, who can take a child home from an activity.

    BSA is ambiguous on these scenarios because they are many and unpredictable. But think of it from a litigation perspective. Right now "public service" announcements are reminding us that being exposed to pornography is a form of sexual abuse. How many youth were introduced to it by their older siblings? How many older siblings were also ASMs?

    Things to keep us awake at night.

    I was exposed to porn by an older sibling’s boyfriend. That guy was a creep but was not a Scouter. 

    I’m very aware that abusers are usually close friends and family members. But that doesn’t change the fact that close friends and family members sometimes have to be trusted to be alone with kids. 

    I guess that written line in the sand is as imaginary as I was afraid it might be?

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  11. 1 hour ago, David CO said:

    If you're not fishing for opinions, I think you already know the answer.  The BSA rules are very clear and well documented.  


    Really? So what are they? Where is this clear line drawn? Can you point me to the right paragraph because I can’t find it. That is why I’m asking. 

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  12. I’m not convinced it does, but I’m looking for a written guideline for where that line should be drawn. 
    The change is subtle, but it’s now called out that unless you MUST be one on one for your career (for example when I worked in special ed I had to spend a lot of one on one time with youth) as a registered adult leader you’re supposed to avoid one on one time with children even outside of Scouting. 
    It seems obvious to me that this can’t apply to parent/child situations. but what about adult siblings? Does it matter whether they are in the same household? Cousins? Nieces and nephews? Grandparents? 3rd cousins twice removed? A neighbor that is “like family”? Where is the official written line between “don’t put yourself in a one on one situation with a child” and “nah, don’t worry about it, it’s family.” ?

  13. So here’s an interesting question. How far does the new rules about YPT for leaders not being one on one with registered Youth outside of Scouting extend into families? 

    If my adult son or daughter were to decide to become a Scouter, or register to do a merit badge, would that mean they could no longer babysit my kids (their sisters) who are in Cub Scouts?

    Hypothetically, what if my kids’ cousin or aunt or other extended family member wanted to volunteer with a Scouting unit? Suddenly overnights at Aunt Patty’s are a thing of the past? 

    For that matter, is it OK per the current rules for me to be at work today and my husband who is COR in a local unit to be alone with the kids during their virtual schooling? 

    I’m not particularly fishing for opinions (of course I’m not saying you can’t share your thoughts) but what I’m searching for is written documentation of how far we are supposed to take these rules in activities or relationships that don’t have direct correspondence with Scouting.  Obviously there has to be a line somewhere; it’s absurd to expect Scout leaders to not be alone in a room with their own offspring who are Scouts. But where IS that line, officially?

  14. Hey, Scouters! Help me out here and let me know if I understand correctly. 

    I'm asking about "in normal times" not Covid extended times. 

    For most ranks (Lion through Bear) if the child hasn't completed the rank by the end of the school year, they automatically "move up" and stop working on the previous grade level's rank.

    But for Webelos, there's no requirement for the kids to finish the Webelos rank by the time they finish 4th grade, is there? I know a child can skip the Webelos rank, but if they want to finish up that last Webelos-required pin, say, now, as they are starting the 5th grade, they can, right? 

    As CC I'm going to allow it anyway due to extenuating circumstances (COVID, fire storms, general apocalypse, Zombies aren't due until next month thankfully) because the family has really good reasons for why they got so far behind, not the least of which actually is the fact that the Webelos den leaders abandoned ship entirely. I'm just tickled that the child decided she wants to go ahead and finish her Webelos rank at all, and *may* continue Scouting at all in the Fall. But if I'm understanding correctly this isn't really an exception for Webelos as it's a continuous 4th-5th grade program. 

    Am I reading that right?

  15. 3 hours ago, yknot said:

    The last thing I can suggest if you still have trouble is a light cotton t shirt or Class B t shirt underneath. This helps if it isn't too hot for layers.




    That's more or less what we do anyway. I actually have her wear a plain white "under shirt" under the uniform at all times, partly to help her have something softer against her skin and partly so she can remove the outer layer if she really needs to. Sometimes she wears a different t-shirt under it. 

  16. 5 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

    The microfiber shirt is softer.  


    You violate the rules "making" a BS shirt out of a different brand.  "It's OK to break the rules, Honey, if we really want to."


    A "uniform" would all look the same.  BSA ended uniforms years ago on the grounds that it would increase revenue to increase choice.  Now they have a brand of assorted garments they wish you to buy

    Relax, I am going to try the Microfiber official uniform one first. :) 

    I wasn't planning to make one out of a different brand; I was just considering taking an official BSA "not really a uniform because it doesn't have the insignia" shirt and adding insignia to it. But it still fits the "brand of assorted garments they wish you to buy" standard. 

    But really I'd prefer an official uniform if I can find one that makes my kiddo happy to wear it. 

    1 minute ago, TAHAWK said:

    BSA "Sanforized" cotton shorts, shorts,, and trousers, back when there was a uniform, got softer and softer as worn and washed.   After a few months, they felt great!   Repeated washing of the 100% cotton short should soften it.   To me, the cotton/polyester blend feels worst of the choices - slippery when you perspire and never softens.

    She was fine with her blue shirt, which was softer and probably more pre-loved than her tan one. Maybe I wash the heck out of it, it will get more comfortable, but I'm not sure it will happen with her cotton/poly blend. But let's see how she does with the microfiber.  

  17. 17 minutes ago, yknot said:

    Yes it looks the same with the same label and same net vent over the shoulders. I don't know what your daughter's specific sensitivity issue is but the fabric is soft, light, and not scratchy. 

    I don't really know what it is either! She isn't actually THAT picky about her clothing, but then again I don't think she owns anything that's as stiff as her uniform shirt either. She has a difficult time describing abstract feelings or concepts so the best I can get out of her is "It's uncomfortable." She does like soft things though. So I'm hoping this will work. I think it's worth a shot. If she likes it I can keep an eye out for bigger sizes. :) 

  18. 21 minutes ago, David CO said:

    I am hesitant to recommend that anyone alter a uniform shirt, or customize a different shirt to resemble a uniform shirt.  I also don't go along with wearing parts of the uniform with non-uniform wear.  In my mind, it is all-or-nothing.  Wear the uniform or don't wear it.  Your choice.

    All of my shirts are made of French terry knit cotton.  Incredibly comfortable.  Very practical outdoors.  Looks a little casual for dress wear, but it doesn't show much if you wear it with a nice sweater or sports jacket.  I think it would be a great material for scout uniform shirts.

    I totally hear where you are coming from. My daughter is proud of her uniform and WANTS to wear it, she just starts begging to take it off halfway through the meeting. The shirt I'm looking at is an official BSA shirt, just not technically a uniform shirt. As far as I can tell the only difference is the lack of a flag patch (easily fixable), the lack of the red lettering above the front pocket (also easily fixable), and the insignia which I'll have to apply to any shirt anyway. 

    Or... maybe if she likes it, she can just wear it as a "Class B." I wish I knew what it felt like. 

    The shirts you describe sound like they'd make a great uniform. I'd love to be on the uniform revision team. *sigh*

  19. My daughter loves the way her uniform shirt looks, but she hates the way it feels and can only stand to wear it for short periods of time. She likes the pants she has, so we are good there.

    The uniform we have is 67% cotton, and the weave is a little stiff. I know there have been a lot of different materials available in the last 20 or so years! At one point there was a soft, supple nylon uniform shirt. Was that the Centennial uniform? I just can't recall. I never liked them much and always stuck with vintage 90's shirts for myself and my older kids. What would you search for on eBay to find a soft and flexible sort of uniform shirt? 

    My daughter wears a girls' 14 and could probably do well with a Youth Large or XL, or Ladies' small to give her some growing room. She's very tall for her age (10). Her current uniform shirt is a Boy's cut, pre-ScoutsBSA, Youth Size Large. 

    I'm looking at this one and thinking I could convert it to a Class A with the right patch placement (I have some Boy Scouts of America strips I can sew on the front). https://ebay.us/lwximt - or maybe this onehttps://ebay.us/p3fInN 


  20. 13 hours ago, David CO said:

    Exactly my point.  The car wash is used as a fig leaf to cover up the fact that the unit is soliciting for donations.  They are not selling a product or service for fair market value.  They are not earning their own way.

    The unit is "soliciting" to trade a car wash for $5. They are not ASKING for donations. 

    The rule is that they can't solicit for donations. The rule is NOT that they can't accept donations if the giver decides to offer an unsolicited donation. 

    I personally think the popcorn sales are a much better fig leaf analogy, because you are literally asking people to pay $30-$35 for something they could walk across the street and buy for $5 at the store. You're not selling them for $5 or even $7 and accepting that a few people will slip you an extra $100. 

    In fact, when I was with a unit that sold popcorn, I frequently encountered people who would say they would love to support Scouting but would rather donate $20 than buy a $40 container of popcorn. 

    I'm really glad our Council doesn't materially participate in Popcorn or expect units to participate. They offer an online program for families that really want to do it, but it's not one of our major fundraisers. 

  21. Thank you. The goal here is to have a place where we can share photos and videos so the Den Leaders can make videos introducing each activity and parents can choose when (or whether) to view them with their kids, and afterwards the parents can upload photos and all the kids can see what the other kids have been working on. Email doesn't really work for that. Facebook does, but comes with its own set of challenges. 

    Meetings are going to be outdoors once a month with masks & social distance, and activities in the home with the adult partner but I want the kids to be able to connect over the activity in an asynchronous way. 

    Not that I had ever used the word "asynchronous" in a pre-covid world. Amazing how deeply this thing has affected everyone's life. Even our routine vocabulary is changing. 

  22. Scoutbook doesn't really have enough features for Cub Scouting in a post-COVID environment where much of the work is being done at home. Facebook is problematic in other areas. Our new Lion Den Leader proposed a platform called Band which I had not heard of, and is setting it up for our Lion den for a trial run. I'm pondering the idea of rolling it out Pack-wide if it works out well.

    Has anybody else used it? What works and what doesn't? Is it only a mobile app? I was a little unclear from the website. 

    As a Lion Den we are doing our activities as asynchronous activities in the home, and meeting for an outdoor activity once a month. Nobody (myself included) wants to plop their Kindergartener who is already having to cope with distance learning down in front of one more Zoom meeting. So we are organizing activities, dropping off craft supplies, and that sort of thing and plan to share pictures and videos of the Lions doing their projects with their Adult Partners. The initial plan was to do so via Facebook, but we have one family who objects to using Facebook at all, and with some of the new updates I'm not far behind. It keeps crashing my laptop and I'm kinda fed up with Facebook myself. 

  23. Recruiting is hard for us but I'm getting some success on Facebook through local parenting groups. Families are really looking for some kind of connection and our schools are all remote learning until at least December.

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