Lenape

I don't post very often, and certainly not in this area. But I read these forums regularly, and have done so for a long time. I want to make a few comments, both specific to the issue and more generally.

Specifically, it is true that a merit badge blue card can only be signed by a registered merit badge counselor, and then must be countersigned by the scoutmaster. So if there was a question or problem with the work done, it would have been incumbent upon the scoutmaster to take the blue card and tell the scout he will get back to him. The the SM could call the counselor, and ask any questions to answer or resolve any doubts he may have. And if he feels that the badge was blatantly not earned, he should not sign the card. If the SM signed the card, the issue is over and there's really no reason to discuss it any further. What would happen if a SM refused to countersign a blue card? I don't know; I never saw it happen. But I suppose like so much else, it could be appealed to district and/or council advancement, and would probably ultimately be approved. By the way, national policy clearly states that a parent, if a registered counselor, can work with his/her own son and sign off the blue card. I know, it doesn't look good, and that's why I refused to do it with my own two sons, but realize it is completely kosher to do so.

As to the eagle app and requirements, obviously a SM conference has to be held and signed off. If the SM conducted the conference and signed off, again nothing in the world can be said further against it. If the SM felt he wasn't qualified for Eagle based on spirit, etc, then the SM should not have signed off on the conference. I suppose again this can then be appealed to District/Council advancement, and well, it seems that it is always approved at that level, too. As to the BOR, the troop CC has to sign the app after that occurs. If there's a problem with the BOR as having no troop representation (something I have nover seen in my years as a Scouter), the CC shouldn't be signing off. If the CC did so, again nothing more can be said. Also, this aspect too can be appealed to District/Council, with predictable results.

So what happens when an Eagle applicant earns it by sidestepping the troop adult leaders and committeepersons, and gets his final approval from Texas? Not much, now. Most Eagles have a special Court of Honor just for them (as opposed to a general troop court). Your Eagle may find that he has a COH where not everyone is going to show up. Early in my Scouter career I attended and Eagle COH where many of the adult leaders were absent. Since I was new to the troop and barely knew anyone, including the Eagle, I asked an adult I knew what the reson wasy. I was told he that the Eagle was not well liked for a variety of reasons by many of the adults, who chose to show their displeasure by staying away. At the time I thought how awful that was that an adult couldn't just swallow his personal opinion, and support the boy by attending. Now, after many years in Scouting, I can certainly understand whay some adults would stay away from a particular Eagle COH. Still unfortunate, but now more understandable.

More generally, I think there is a tendency amongst adults who are old enough to remember "when" (I'm in my 50's) to expect someting more from the advancement process than exists today, and has not existed for many years. We older ones have in our mind's eye the "Norman Rockwell" Eagle Scout, and all that that level of perfection entails. Requirements for advancement are easier now than when we were youth (remember the 2nd class requirement of three 5-mile hikes?). Look, national has made a conscious decision to make things easier and faster for advancement so as to retain membership, something that is an ongoing problem. When I was a youth there was no "First Class First Year" goal, and I fact in my troop almost everyone seemed to advance at about a rank a year. I was a scout for six years, and in my troop, which I consider was a successful troop, we had only three Eagles over that entire length of time, and the youngest was 16. Again folks, let's face it, Scouting advancement today is not what it was long ago, and we have to accept that and work with it. It certainly means boys who come up for Eagle with less than perfect behavior and values, but remember they had no problem making it to Life, and we're all pretty much stuck with the situation of they have their 6 months "active," their 6 months POR, their Eagle project, and their 21 badges. To try to somehow throw roadblocks up at this point is fruitless. If it's a monster, let's at least be adult enought to acknowledge it's a monster we allowed to be created, with national's blessing and guidance. And please take some satisfaction that, for every Eagle who you can't help but wince over, there's at least one Eagle you came across who deserved to be on a Norman Rockwell poster. I have been priviledged to know some.

Sorry everyone, but concerned_scout66 is right on the facts. I was there, and I know of it, too.

It was a "red flag" heat alert day, with temperature over 100, and a heat index much higher (115 or more wouldn't surprise me). It's absolutely true that the Jambo medical staff earlier that day recommended to Jambo organizers that the arena show be cancelled due to health and safety concerns arising from the high heat and humidity. I was a 1st ASM in Subcamp 5 from the Northeast region. I saw that afternoon a med tech from the Western region, and he told me that Jambo med staff recommended cancellation. Then I spoke to an M.D. from our own subcamp who is from my own home district, and she confirmed the exact same story. She also told me that the 300 hundred figure was grossly understated; she guestimated 1200 or more felled by heat.

I don't know why the powers to be tried to allow the show to go on, when they knew what the weather was like and what the med staff had recommended. I was there in 2001, and when the 1st show was cancelled due to storms, neither the president or Barbara Mandrell could make the rescheduled show. But the president did send a video message that was broadcast at the rescheduled show. Maybe this year the Secret Service arm-twisted the Jambo organizers with the threat that it was that night or no night for the President. I just don't know. What I do know is that the organizers really blew it when they clearly knew what the situation was, and had prior advice of their own medical experts, and yet tried to proceed regardless. Decisions bordering on child abuse and criminality. And yes, I heard numerous persons refer to it afterwards as the "death march."

No 1st show was ever rescheduled, and there was only a single arena show on Sunday evening. The weather was much cooler, and it went off without a hitch. The President appeared, and was warmly received. A bit of a recycled speech; much of what he said I have heard him say exactly the same before. The rest of the show was pretty lame; only the closing fireworks show as memorable.

Liner? What liner? I have an official jac-shirt I bought for the 1969 National Jamboree. I suppose it is Woolrich manufacture, although I really don't know. It has no liner. I have never seen any other Scout or Scouter with an offical jac-shirt that has a liner. When did this begin and by who?

I have long since outgrown my jacket, and have passed it on to my Eagle Scout son. I would like to buy a new one, but the current price is a bit much.

I'm a Life for life. I was in Scouting from 1965 until I turned 18 in 1971. I have no regrets, and am now the proud father of two Eagles, and have been active in Scouting since they were Cubs.

Yarrow hit in on the head. In my experience, most boys make Eagle who have strong parental involvement and support. My father worked two jobs 7 days a week. I love him, but finances were such that he couldn't be there for me in

Scouting. Neither could my mother. They never discouraged me in Scouting in any way, just that I never got any of the support and involvement that boys who made Eagle did.

John-in-KC is also right on the money, and he put it very diplomatically. The advancement program of today is much different from that of 35-40 years ago. What I am about to say is definitely not meant as a complaint or criticism in any way, I'm just stating what I have observed.

When I was a youth, there was no such program as "First Year-First Class." There wasn't even a Scout rank, the first badge you could earn and sew on your uniform was Tenderfoot. In our troop, which no longer exists but was successful in my time, boys advanced on average a rank per year. In the six years I was in my sucessfully run troop, we had only three Eagles. If my faulty memory serves me well, two were high school seniors (17), and one was a junior (16). Eagles younger than that were unheard of. One of our Eagles had a father on the Troop Committee, and another had a father who was an ASM in the troop. So I have to agree with Yarrow; parental support and involvement makes a crucial difference.

Aside from rank requirements being much different than today (I had to do three 5-mile hikes for second class, and stars were required for first class, among others), merit badges were handled different, and requirements were different. I went to scout summer camp for four summers. Always for two weeks. Every troop then went for two weeks. So the merit badge programs were set up for two weeks. You couldn't earn many in less than that. Now, most troops go for summer camp just one week, and as such the camp's merit badge program is set up for completion in one week. Just a few years ago I overheard an adult of similar age to me complaining that boys were earning Lifesaving in one week, and when he was a youth it couldn't be done in less than two weeks. I remember that too, but I'm not complaining; I understand the changes that have occurred over the years, and why the changes are necessary. Also, when I was a youth, Lifesaving was required for Eagle, not an either-or with Emergency Preparedness. If you couldn't do Lifesaving physically (which I couldn't), you couldn't do anything else and so couldn't get Eagle. I know many Eagles who get Emergency Prep because they are hesitant to go for the physical challenges of Lifesaving, even if they get Swimming. And when I was a youth, Swimming was required, not either-or with Hiking and Cycling. Similarly, Personal Fitness was a required badge, and the requirement was meeting the 50-percentiles. For a number of years, Personal Fitness wasn't required. When it was brought back as required in 1999, they changed the requirements: Meet the 50 percentiles after a 30-day program, or show improvement over personal best after a 90-day program. My sons, as well as most recent Eagles I have known, have done the 90-day personal best improvement requirement, and not the 50 percentiles. And when I was a youth, there was no way to apply to council for alternate badges or requirements (at least not that I remember).

So I didn't make Eagle because no one was supporting me to go for the remaining five "hard" badges: Swimming, Lifesaving and Personal Fitness (too physical for a non-athletic overweight kid), and Conservation of Natural Resources (what became Environmental Science) and one other than skips my mind right now (Nature?), because they were considered the "hot and dirty" badges to get.

I had a great time as a scout, and count going to the 1969 National Jamboree as my highpoint. I was proud to make Life (a month before I turned 18), and was proud in my last year to be JASM.

If I have a criticism of today, I would say that there is a much greater emphasis on making Eagle now than there was when I was a boy. And I think the numbers reflect that: Approximately 49,000 Eagles a year out of a registered Boy Scout membership of approximately 1 million. That's almost 5% a year, which is much higher than the maybe 2% a year when I was a youth. While all Scouts should be encouraged and supported to go as far in advancement as they want, neither should they be made to feel that anything short of Eagle is failure.

Our troop did this 4 or 5 years ago. So any thing I say should be verified with the National Park Service in Gettysburg and with York-Adams Council.

First, we arranged to stay at the McMillian Woods youth group campsite. This is operated by the National Park Service. It has the benefits of being located right on the park grounds (off the Confederate battle line), and is absolutely free. But you must make your reservation as early as possible, which means calling beginning 8:00 A.M. on January 2nd for the camping season which begins mid-April. It "sells out" fast, so do call at first opportunity, and be flexible in date reservation. The campsite holds numerous boy and girl scout troops. There will be a row of porta-potties, which if you arrive Friday evening, will be pretty ripe by the time you leave Sunday. There is a potable water spigot, so water is not a problem. There are no shower facilities, so you will be smelling pretty good by the time you get home. the alternative is camping at a commercial site, which will have showers, but of course will cost money. We took the very first weekend reservation, which was mid-April. There is adequate free parking.

We are about a 4-hour drive from Gettysburg, so we left home at 4:00 P.M. and arrived on-site at 8:00 P.M., just as it was getting dark. We found our numbered site no problem, and set up camp.

You must get the historic trail booklet in advance from York-Adams Council. It was also available from the NPS Visitor's Center bookstore, but you want to read it over in advance, not when you get there. Back when we went, it only cost a buck. Can't be all that much more now.

If you have only a weekend (2 days), you must plan carefully to do it all. We woke up Saturday morning and arranged to drive to the visitor center to get there when it first opened (9:00 A.M.). We viewed the Electric Map, and a real quick walk through the exhibits. Then it was across the the street to the National Cemetery. From there, we walked to the Cyclorama and viewed that. Note: Electric Map and Cyclorama involve fees (as does the Eisenhower Home). From the Cyclorama, you start the 9-mile Billy Yank trail. Basically, you walk the Union line from the Angle all the way down to the Round Tops, the back up along the Confederate line, and across the field that Pickett's charge took to the Angle. Then you walk back to your cars at the visitor's center and you're done for the day (it's a full day!). The boys liked the walk up to the top of Little Round Top, and recreating Pickett's Charge gave everyone goosebumps as we approached the cannons and cassions that are at the Angle.

The next day, Sunday, you drive back to the visitor's center first thing, and do the Eisenhower Home tour (buses are included in your fee from the visitor's center). When you are returned to the visitor's center, step off on the 3-mile Johnny Reb trail through Cemetery Hill, Culps's Hill, and Spangler's Spring. When you return form that, you can do the 5-mile Historic Home trail through downtown Gettyburg. Honestly, if you have travelling to do, you may have have enough time to do any or all of the Historic home trail. We only could do a small part of it before we had to leave for home.

I believe that a new visitor's center is being built,and I don't know how this will impact any of what I have described above. That's why you should call both the NPS and the Council to get the latest updates.

Good luck and have fun. By all means, watch the movie "Gettysburg" and do whatever else you can to acquaint youselves and the boys with the history and timeline of this pivotal 3-day battle. The more you recognize as you hike it, the more meaningful it will be.

Add me to your list!