LCScouter

Meteu

If you do not like a particular policy regarding uniforming, feel free to contact the National Uniform and Insignia Committee. They are always open to suggestions.

Changes to uniforming, if any, usually take a while.

Make your case and it might be changed in your favor in the future.

You won't know until you do it!

The proper wearing of the uniform and placement of insignia (including advancement) is covered in the Insignia Guide book. This is the book that the Boy Scouts of America says what's what and where everything goes.

Using your same logic, then I can wear rank advancement on my pants pocket. I can wear merit badges on the back of my shirt! Sounds absurd, doesn't it? There is rhyme and reason for the placement of badges and the proper wearing of the uniform.

You don't wear OA sash on non-Order of the Arrow functions. When you do, it it worn in the same manner as the merit badge sash (but not at the same time).

Merit badge sashes and oa sashes should NEVER be worn on the belt. I know, I know --- that is the way we did it when I was a Boy Scout "way back when." But that is not the way it is done today! Gotta go with the flow ...

They make it from "scratch." I wanted the cargo pockets left off my pants, it costs extra; but it can be done.

Why not "from scratch" with the new shirt as well?

www.Scouting.Org has some website guidelines for unit websites and for district/council websites. The guidelines vary, according to who "owns" the website.

A unit website is "owned" by the Chartering Organization and the BSA can not officially dicate any "rules," only offer common-sense guidelines.

I would suggest using the COPPA policies that the USA government has set up. Also, good-old common sense goes a long way in developing a unit website.

District and Council websites must meet stricter guidelines (but they are still guidelines).

Check out the guidelines for website development at the National BSA website.

I would have to say:

The District Commissioner - helps provide service to the individual units.

District Training Committee Chair -- "gotta get them trained!"

District Advancement Chair - especially Eagle BOR Chair.

District Activities/Civic Programs Chair. (Cub Day Camps Pinewood Derbies, Good Turn For America, Scouting For Food, annual Awards Banquet, etc.)

Also, District Camping Chair (Camp promotions, Camporees, etc.)

and finally,

Roundtable Commissioner(s). Roundtable are a great source of supplemental information, on-going training, and exchange of ideas, suggestions, and thoughts to improve the Scouting program in the individual units.

I paid lifetime membership in my OA Lodge --- not Lifetime membership in the National Order of the Arrow.

If I move to another Council and another lodge, then I will still have to pay dues to the new lodge.

It justs makes it easier to pay all at once for something than having to remember to pay each and every year --- especially when you get to be as "old" as I am! lol

"National" OA does not provide "lifetime" membership, but our lodge (AKK #185) does provide that option to its members (both youth and adults).

ecco40

You stated "At a recent Eagle COH, three Scouts, one 18, two 19, wore their uniform with their Eagle rank badge. When asked, I said, no, that was improper uniforming. As adults, they should not wear patches indicating rank."

Did you mean to say SCOUTERS?

If they were youth members in the BSA (Venture??), they of course would wear their Eagle Badges.

If they were registered as Adults (Assistant Scoutmaster??), then the Eagle square knot would be in order.

I'm confused.

Well, I guess your Eagle is better than my son's Eagle.

We are all Eagles. No one is "better" than another.

Does the fact that I have Eagle Palms make me better than my cousin who does not have any Eagle Palms on his Eagle square knot? No! Just different.

I paid for "lifetime" membership to my Council's OA lodge. I figured I would be lazy and pay it all at once and get it over with, instead of paying year-by-year. Got a snazzy OA flap. Does that make me a better Arrowman? No. Just because I had the $$ and could afford it (this one time) I did it.

Does having 7 square knots on your uniform make you a better Scouter? Probably not. I know of several outstanding Leaders who haven't earned a single training-award. They are more concerned about providing a Quality Program for "The Boys" rather than earning training-awards!

I totally agree with the other posters. Cub Scouting is more about doing, rather than "getting the award."

One exception would be the Tiger Program. Participation is the key factor in the Tigers program, rather than accomplishing a certain task.

Go to a National Historic Site would be a "Go See It" and also another bead for visiting a national park. Two beads, one trip. But that would be the exception, rather than the rule.

Once they get beyond Tigers, stick to "do one requirement, get one requirement checked off."

Since I have selected to serve on my Council's Committee, I guess I will have to shell out the $$$ for a new uniform, with the prerequisite 2009 FOS CSP.

Gwd, ever thought about going the "custom-made" option from ScoutStuff.org. I probably will, since I personally don't like the pocket on the sleeve, and a few other features on the uniform. Like the material, though.

Probably get a few shirts when I go to Jambo 2010.

In our Council, Training Awards are retro to 5 years only. You have to take the current BASIC training (Essentials, Leader-Specific, and YPT). Don't forget about Roundtables (or Pow-Wows). They have to be completed during the same time-frame as your tenure.

I would think it would be a package deal; do ALL the requirements within a single time-frame. Just my 2-cents worth!

skeptic

Years ago (pre 1988) it was like that. Cubmaster's earned their version of the Scouter's Key (Cubmaster's Key) and Den Mothers once earned the Scouter's Training Award.

However, since 1988, things have changed. National came out with a series of new awards geared specifically for Cub Leaders (the ones we have today). The awards were neck medals, but now the award is just the certificate. The square knots still represent the award (in this case, the certificates).

The device pins were introduced to show which program a Scouter earned the Award --- for example: I earned the Scouter's Key when I was a Scoutmaster back in the late 70's (Scouting device), as Cubmaster back in the mid 80's (cub device), and as Commissioner (just recently). I have 3 devices on my Scouter's Key; but only ONE square knot.

Also, the positions of Den Leader is different than that of an Assistant Scoutmaster. The SA is a support role in the troop, assisting the Scoutmaster. The DL is the primary leader for the Den. Different roles, different requirements, different awards, different square knots.

Maybe it will go back to the more simplified way of doing things, who knows?

Certainly the best recogognition there is to helping others is the satisfaction we find in our own hearts. And a mature person has the ability to reward themselves without wanting reward form others.

I wholeheartedly agree with above statement. To me, the BEST Leader Recognition is the reward, not the award.

So what if the piece of cloth means nothing to you, or you lack to the courtesy to be appreciative that others find you noteworty, that does not mean that the recognition should not be offered or should not exist.

Don't get me wrong, the square knots means a lot to me. I have a chest full of those embroidered pieces of cloth and each has a special meaning in my life --- Youth God and Country, Eagle, Training Awards, etc.

If the act of being appreciated for one's efforts is so distasteful then do not go the the ceremony, do not accept the award, send it back if it arrives in the mail. But allow the giver of the recognition to still enjoy the act of appreciating others.

"When you deny a Blessing by others, you deny a Blessing by God to those other individuals."

Believe me, when I receive such recognition, I am very thankful for that fact that someone thought I was worthy of that recognition.

There is great value to any community in the pursuit of doing worthy things.

That is why I am involved in Scouting.

We have been talking about recognition and square knots and the meaning behind them.

There are many forms of Leader Recognition, some you wear on the uniform and some you don't.

To me, the best form of Leader Recognition is when a Scout looks at a Scouter and you can see the look in the Scout's eyes and the broad smile on his face --- that says a lot right there!

knowing that I helped (in some small way) Scouting's goal of "delivering the promise" to the Scout and making a difference in that Scout's life is what keeps me going after 40+ years of Scouting!

Embroidered pieces of cloth and medals are nice to have, but I rather have the knowledge that a Scout has grown in Character and developed a positive value system that will guide him for the rest of his life.

To me, THAT is the B-E-S-T Leader Recognition I could ever hope for as a Scouter!

PACK15NISSAN

I tell you why the PTC Master's knot is new --- no one thought about it before. The Pack Trainer knot is new --- you can't retro it. Although, come to think about it, the Pack Trainer replaced the Den Leader Coach (which also had a square knot).

You have to start somewhere with recognition. There was a time in Scouting when you could get Eagle BEFORE Star or Life Scout Rank.

It's not always about money, but ways to improve PROGRAMMING. The requirement that a Scouter come back and TEACH is the key to the PTC Master's award, not the money. The James West knot was to stop some Councils in the BSA from the practice of presenting Silver Beavers for donating large sums of money and get back to giving it to deserving individuals for Service to Scouting (although the case has been made here in forum about giving money vs time as Service to Scouting).

ALL of the square knots represent recognition for something done in Scouting. We all have to EARN the recognition and we all end up PAYING for it --- be it "sweat equity" as volunteer serving for years, or a finanicial donation to Scouting.

Either way, we are helping to "Deliver The Promise ..." and insuring the legacy of Scouting for generations of Scouts to come.

The square knots, the recognition, is NOT what Scouting is about. It is about teaching the kids the ability to make POSITIVE choices during their lifetime and to have a set of values that they can utilize throughout their lives.

Recognition is the vehicle which the BSA uses to help youth members learn and achieve the goals and mission of the BSA, and adult volunteers "Deliver The Promise ..." to the youth members.

The BSA does not require adults to wear the square knots, just like the BSA does not require youth to earn advancement. Learning and putting in to practice what one learns and setting a good example is what Scouting (at least to me) is all about.

Thank you for letting me get on my "soap-box" for a bit.

Clarification.

I guess I did not use the term EARN in the proper light. ALL awards are EARNED.

There are some awards that have pre-defined requirements that you must complete in order to receive the recognition. A person can earn: Advancement (AOL, Eagle, Quartermaster). You can earn Training Awards (Scouter's Key, Webelos Den Leader Award, etc.).

There are awards that you receive for some action you performed (Medal of Merit and Heroism awards come to mind).

Then there are forms of recognition you can't "earn", meaning that these awards are presented by one's peers for Service to Scouting, (i.e. Silver Beaver, District Award of Merit, etc.) rather than a set of requirements that must be fulfilled to get the award.

ALL awards are EARNED is some fashion. Those deserving Scouters who have received the Silver Beaver, DOM, and others have indeed EARNED them.

I hope that I clarified my position on the term "earned."

insanescouter,

There is a square knot for the Silver Beaver award. The Silver Beaver award is one of those awards that is presented to you for Scouting Service, rather than earning it (like the Scouter's Training Award).

The BSA has a square knot for just about everything! Besides the Silver Beaver, the BSA has issued 53 "official" square knots for everything from Andvancement (Eagle) to Training (Scouter's Training Award) to Service (Silver Beaver) and in-between.

Good idea about wearing vintage SPL badge of office. I concure that you should not wear the mint version, but try and get some of the older SPL. Instead of ebay, try Chris Jensen at www.SteamWood.com or Mitch Reis at www.mitchreis.com.

Not trying to promote commerce here, but I have both to be reliable sources for insignia.

LCScouter

www.longcanescouting.org

insanescouter,

Once insiginia has been approved by the National Council, it is official. You may wear any insignia from any era that reflects your current status in Scouting. If you are a SM and want to wear a Scoutmaster's patch from the 70's; then have at it!

There are some insigina that have time-limits on them (usually Jambo related), and need to heed on the side of caution when wearing such insignia.

Uniform parts however, are a different story. For consistantcy, stick to wearing all the same style of whatever uniform you decide (new or old). Just looks better!

LCScouter

www.longcanescouting.org

Question:

What is your opinion on the wearing of square knots on the adult Scouter uniform? Not talking about the quantity (how much is too much? or), but rather the wearing of the square knots in the first place.

Some have stated that such recognition should be "for the boys" and leaders don't need to be wearing "salad."

Thoughts, ideas, comments?

I have more than six, but here goes:

Arrow of Light Award

Youth Religious Award

Eagle Scout Award

Den Leader Award

Cubmaster Award

Scouter's Key (with SM and UC device pins)

The first 3 because of my Scouting youth. The others to show the importance of being a trained "front-line" leader.

If I ever were to receive the DAM, Adult Religious, Silver Beaver, etc.; then I would remove the training awards in favor of "recognition by others" to show that I (in some small way) helped "Deliver The Promise ..." to the boys!

LCScouter,

www.longcanescouting.org/

Ditto to what everyone has already mentioned.

Don't worry about the perception ... the boys (and their parents) will soon see how GREAT you are and how the Scouting background and experience will only help the troop (and the boys).

Just be who you are and allow yourself time to "grow in to the position" ... it will all work out --- trust us --- we've all "been there, done that, wore the tee-shirt!"

LCScouter,

www.longcanescouting.org/

Howdy!

Glad you stopped by. I too have been away from Scouting, but decided to get back in to the "swing of things" about 5 years ago.

Having served in a troop as SM, ASM, and Troop CC; decided to "hop over the fence" and try Cubbing again. I had been involved years ago as Den Leader and Pack Committee. Since then, been CM, Tiger Den Leader, and now serve as Webelos Den Leader. Couldn't be happier! The Cubs keep this old-timer young!

LCScouter,

www.longcanescouting.org/

scottmphoto

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Hope that you gain a lot of info from these wonderful folks!

LCScouter,

www.longcanescouting.org/

Welcome to the campfire.

Pull up a chair and have a cup of coffee!

LCScouter,

www.longcanescouting.org/