ASM915

Worst case scenario with 18y/o drivers, If you only have three drivers, and one is 18, have his vehicle sandwiched between the other two vehicles. That way he knows he has someone in from and behind watching him.

Then we have the opposite situation where the parents say it is alright for an 18y/o ASM to drive their kids around when you have an issue with his driving. This I have a real problem with.

When I was a young one, I switched Troops. The first campout was about an hour to an hour and a half away. I got to ride with some of the older scouts awith one of the 18 y/o brothers driving. This was in the early 70's. I don't remember if he was an ASM or just a troop member that aged out. We made it in 40 minutes, flying along between 90 and 100 MPH. The meeting place was at a ice cream stand. The adults approached me and asked how fast he was going. All I said was that sionce I was in the back seat, I couldn't be suere, but that we had been at the stand for about 25 minutes before they arrived. Needless to say, he wasn't driving after that.

In the 70's, I do not remember parents coming along other then the leaders. The Troop I'm involved with now, a few yaers back when we had a decent amount of boys, I do not remember parents coming to camp, unless they were involved in the committee.

Skipper,

Next summer, try and send all you older Scouts to NYLT if you want them to pick up on how the patrol method is suppose to work.

When I was in Scouting in the 70's, we didn't know anything other then patrol method. on winter cabin campouts, yes we would cook as a troop, but that was the only time.

When I came back into boy Scouts as a leader about 6 years ago, the troop we joined had pretty much lost the concept of patrol method. Now we're so small that we can only man one patrol. Hopefully that will change over the next two years as we hope to see an influx of about 12-51 Webelos, more then tripling our ranks.

Stosh,

Take them out on nature hikes and teach them plant and tree ident. Then they can become Lisabob's amatuer naturalist and serve a function. That should keep them busy for a couple of campouts. Then move them to dutch oven cooking. That will kill off a couple more trips.

USR, I'll have to remember the chair trick.

Luckily our troop is soooo small that all the fathers are CM's. But then again we have the problem with that they all like to cook. That's a topic for another thread.

Liz,

Just get the Troop to start outpost camping for summercamp. It has ben years since our roop has stayed in main camp or went to the dining hall. We do all of our own cooking. My son has red dye and dairy intolerance's, not true allergies. They interfere with his neurochemistry. When we go camping, our family usually will supply his cheese and rice milk. Dan is good at checking out labels for red dye.

A few years back, Dan and I went on a 50 miler with another Troop. They went way out of their way to accommodate Dan. They bought the rice milk and cheese. They used the rice milk in their recipes that called for milk. That made for some different consistencies. We found out that rice and soy milk doesn't set up well in pudding.

While working on camp staff the last two years, the kitchen made every effort to accommodate him. We would send the milk to camp. They offered to run out to the nearby grocer and order rice or soy ice cream for him.

Good luck.

If the Troop continues to do Troop cooking, make him the grubmaster. Then you know for sure that peanuts won't be making an appearance.

As others have said, give the Scouts credit and teach them about the allergy.

I would teach everyone in the Troop how to use the epipen, not just the older Scouts and leaders. He may be on a hike with the younger ones when someone pulls out homemade trailmix, and the others might not be around. As stated, talk with the GP, or see if one of the parents is a RN or medic. Have them help train everyone and use oranges for real injection practice.

Find out where the kid keeps his epipen. Does he have one or two pens.

When we go camping my son always has one on him, and I have a spare just incase, he looses his or it gets broke. We have had both happen. Last year while on camp staff, he had a coon grab his fannie pack that had his pen and a candy bar in it. They last saw the pen and coon making a fast exit into the woods never to be seen again.

I have a friend that over the last two years has developed a similar airborne allergy to chocolate. I didn't find out about it until Labor Day at a powwow at her rez. when I walk into our canopy with chocolate syrup on something and my wife and other friends informed me. Later when I asked Sandy about it and where she kept her epipen, she took my hand and patted her thigh. It was in a pocket hanging on the inside of her full legnth skirt. I would have never thought of looking there.

I cannot believe the apathy toward rules that has shown itself in this thread and the thread that this one was spun from. Has the liberal way of thinking that has emerged over the last 40+ years so infiltrated our society that we now show such a disregard toward rules and laws? Is the mindset now that if it does not affect me or my family that I will turn a blind eye toward what is happening or has happened because I don't want to get invovled? Isn't this a similar mindset to 1930's Europe, or more recently Rwanda and Darfur?

So what if a Scout gets abused by a leader, or a Venturer returns from a backcountry excursion pregnant because she was allowed to tent with the oppisite sex, maybe her fiance, as long as the broken rule doesn't affect me or my family?

Should we just toss the G2SS and the rules and rename the organization "The ANARCHIST SCOUTS OF AMERICA", because that is where it will end up sooner or later if we keep this present mindset.

LET'S GET REAL PEOPLE! So much for teaching our Scouts civic duty, moral obligations, and to stand up for what is right, whether it directly affects them or not.

Whose responsibility is it to police our ranks, volunteer or professional? It should be everyones reponsibility. Should inquiries into infractions be handle descreetly? Yes.

BW condones that volunteer infractions should be handled by the IH/IR and COR. But with a lot of CO's being a silent noninvolved partner, and how discreet a situation would be kept, is this realistic?

Lisa,

Since I'm a married ASM, am I allowed to sleep in the tent with the unmarried SM, or am I only allowed to sleep in the tent with another married leader? Just joking.

Did you hear about the dyslexic atheist? HE real thought there was a Dog.

Oops1 Can I say that here? If not, moderator, send it off into cyberspace.

Maybe the next time Scouting Magazine publishes a list of books, it might ve advisable to break the list down into appropriate age ranges, like they do for movies. That way you don't have a Webelos reading something like "Clockwork Orange" or an Erica Jong contribution.

I guess it was good that the list was in Scouting Magazine. That way the parents/leaders would see the list, and be able to make the decision whether they wanted their boys to be exposed to certian veiwpoints or not.

shortridge,

7R it is. When were you there?

And speaking of parsnips, don't forget about Wild Grapes and Canadian Moon Flower. We outpost in Calumet for sumemrcamp. We have had Wild Grapes growing next to the pavillion for years, so we thought. This year one of the staffers was over for a visit and noticed the Moon Flower growing on the opposite side of the road. The leaves the first year a distictly unique. The second years growth, the leaves are identical to the Wild Grape, growing on a vine with fruit that looks just like Wild Grape. But guess what? The berries will kill you. Good thing we never tried the Wild Grapes, in reality they might be Canadian Moon Flower.

I guess there is a reason the Wilderness Survival MB has a requirement about whether or not to eating wild plants.

Sorry for the multiple posts. Something hicupped somewhere and it wsn't me. Now granddad had Parkinsons, but honestly, I wasn't shaking either.

gwd,

Glad to hear the good news. How close is the Webelos meeting place to you? Could they reschedule their meetings to coinside with yours? Could you hold one meeting a month at their location? Have you started courting the Webelos I den yet?

I have been trying to get the SM to involve the local Webelos Den in some of our activities. We are in the same boat as your unit, very small Troop with no CO attached Pack, and former CM drawing the Webelos to his old Troop several miles away. The local Pack is at the UMC. Our Troop meets in the community park in the Scout House, a cynder block building.

Two weeks ago, the Webelos II den came to visit. There is talk about them changing their meeting night to Mondays so they can do more with us. The SM and I have talked about moving our meeting to the church from November to April, so we are more visible to the Pack as a whole. The preacher, a former SM from the other side of the state, is more then willing to work with us.

The SM has hinted at seeing if there can be a joint CO (our CO at this time is the VFW), or changing to the UMC if they will allow us to keep our present Troop number. We are the oldest functioning Troop from the original Council before mergers, 87 y/o, and the second oldest Troop in the present Council. I'ld hate to give up the charter and numbers.

I have tried to gwet the Troop to supply Den Chiefs to the Pack for several years to no avail. All of a sudden the Troop wants to supply DC's to the W II's den who my son has been working with as DC, and have him step back to the Wolf or Bear den, probably a good move with his special needs.

I'm still having problems with the SM wanting to work with the Webelos I den and invite them to activities also. He feels the priority is the Webelos II den, 6-8 boys. We need to be building bridges and relationships with the Webelos I den now, not later. They have 12-15 boys in their den.

Cub Scout campout eh? Maybe the Cubs might not have realized what was happening, but I'll bet some of the Den Chiefs picked up on it, or other older Scouts helping out that weekend.

Liz,

Two sleeping bags? I'm sure they both had sleeping bags. Then again some sleeping bags can be zipped together to make a real big one. Maybe two tents would have been more appropriate. Oh! To costly on staff wages. Scratch that, I forgot, he's now a DE with a 4 year degree and should be able to afford two bags and two tents.

MichaelOA,

DO you condone letting 16 or 17 year old Scouts driving other Scout friends out to a campout? How about the 18 1/2 year old ASM sleeping in the same tent as some Scouts? No? Why??? Because it is a rule??? What is the difference here??? It is a rule. Period!

ASM59,

You beat me to the punch on the rest of the scripture. At least I know you made it to Mass a few weeks ago if you're Catholic.

Beavah, Beavah, Beavah,

Let's bend the rules? Whose business is it anyways?

You have a case come up on your docket for grand theft auto. The accused states he needed a ride to make a delivery, sees a car with the keys in it, and decides to use it. "I didn't steal it. I borrowed it. I was going to return it when I was finished. The keys were in it, right?" What is your Judge going to do? Let him off the, eh? NOT!! Or his boss says, "I don't care how you get the item delivered. Steal a car if you have to." Who is the Judge going to send to the big house? Not the boss. Well maybe as an accomplish if you have a zealous DA.

Talk with the DE? Won't work. There is already a history.

Talk with the SE? Probably will fall on a deaf ear, especially if he was condoning it. Council president or someone farther up the food chain at regional may be needed.

Neil,

Do Councils make their employees sign morality clauses or statements? If so, the DE is toast, and possibly anyone condoning his actions. Guilty by association.

(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Cub Scout campout eh? Maybe the Cubs might not have realized what was happening, but I'll bet some of the Den Chiefs picked up on it, or other older Scouts helping out that weekend.

Liz,

Two sleeping bags? I'm sure they both had sleeping bags. Then again some sleeping bags can be zipped together to make a real big one. Maybe two tents would have been more appropriate. Oh! To costly on staff wages. Scratch that, I forgot, he's mow a DE with a 4 year degree and should be able to afford two bags and two tents.

MichaelOA,

DO you condone letting 16 or 17 year old Scouts driving other Scout friends out to a campout? How about the 18 1/2 year old ASM sleeping in the same tent as some Scouts? No? Why??? Because it is a rule??? What is the difference here??? It is a rule. Period!

ASM59,

You beat me to the punch on the rest of the scripture. At least I know you made it to Mass a few weeks ago if you're Catholic.

Beavah, Beavah, Beavah,

Let's bend the rules? Whose business is it anyways?

You have a case come up on your docket for grand theft auto. The accused states he needed a ride to make a delivery, sees a car with the keys in it, and decides to use it. "I didn't steal it. I borrowed it. I was going to return it when I was finished. The keys were in it, right?" What is your Judge going to do? Let him off the, eh? NOT!! Or his boss says, "I don't care how you get the item delivered. Steal a car if you have to." Who is the Judge going to send to the big house? Not the boss. Well maybe as an accomplish if you have a zealous DA.

Talk with the DE? Won't work. There is already a history.

Talk with the SE? Probably will fall on a deaf ear, especially if he was condoning it. Council president or someone farther up the food chain at regional may be needed.

Neil,

Do Councils make their employees sign morality clauses or statements? If so, the DE is toast, and possibly anyone condoning his actions. Guilty by association.

Cub Scout campout eh? Maybe the Cubs might not have realized what was happening, but I'll bet some of the Den Chiefs picked up on it, or other older Scouts helping out that weekend.

Liz,

Two sleeping bags? I'm sure they both had sleeping bags. Then again some sleeping bags can be zipped together to make a real big one. Maybe two tents would have been more appropriate. Oh! To costly on staff wages. Scratch that, I forgot, he's mow a DE with a 4 year degree and should be able to afford two bags and two tents.

MichaelOA,

DO you condone letting 16 or 17 year old Scouts driving other Scout friends out to a campout? How about the 18 1/2 year old ASM sleeping in the same tent as some Scouts? No? Why??? Because it is a rule??? What is the difference here??? It is a rule. Period!

ASM59,

You beat me to the punch on the rest of the scripture. At least I know you made it to Mass a few weeks ago if you're Catholic.

Beavah, Beavah, Beavah,

Let's bend the rules? Whose business is it anyways?

You have a case come up on your docket for grand theft auto. The accused states he needed a ride to make a delivery, sees a car with the keys in it, and decides to use it. "I didn't steal it. I borrowed it. I was going to return it when I was finished. The keys were in it, right?" What is your Judge going to do? Let him off the, eh? NOT!! Or his boss says, "I don't care how you get the item delivered. Steal a car if you have to." Who is the Judge going to send to the big house? Not the boss. Well maybe as an accomplish if you have a zealous DA.

Talk with the DE? Won't work. There is already a history.

Talk with the SE? Probably will fall on a deaf ear, especially if he was condoning it. Council president or someone farther up the food chain at regional may be needed.

Neil,

Do Councils make their employees sign morality clauses or statements? If so, the DE is toast, and possibly anyone condoning his actions. Guilt by association.

Lisabob,

Our Council has a three fold program.

1) For camp honors each year, the Scouts need to be able to identify

15 plants/trees, 4 constelations, and 10 insects for Year 1,

25 plants, 6 constelations and 10 birds for Year 2 and

35 plants, 8 constelations, and 10 or 15 mammals.

4th and 5th years are required to handle leadership positions, like teaching the younger ones.

2) Camp offers a 3 hour naturalist program for youth and adults the first two sfternoons at summer camp.

3)Camp also offers the Burroughs Award, which is three tiered, bronze, gold and silver.

This is for the hard core people,

50,75,100 plants either prebloom, in bloom post bloom

20,25,30 birds by sight or call

20,25,30 constelations (all of it, not just the major part of it) and or stars and planets by sight,

10,15,20 rocks or minerals

20,25,30 wildlife (mammals, aquatic, insects).

The numbers may be off a little. Evert tear there are a couple of people who manage to achieve one of the levels, especially staffers.

They have amatuer botanists, foresters, college prof's, etc. involved in Scouting and have the time to come out to camp run the Burroughs program.

I haven't went for the Burroughs Award yet, almost went for the Bronze this last summer. I probably need a few more years yet to have the plants down pat.

jb,

Was the Patrol yell "NEVER MORE"? LOL.

ktchace,

The program is still around, but there are some issues with the people running. Other threads have complained that it taking months to get the medals and patches, even though they are cashing your checks.

BKale, from the forum has started the Youth Patriotism Award, baesd off of the Heritage Award, to pick up in place of it. Check under Open Forum for the Youth Patriotism Award for information. He has done a nice job and it went active on 9/11. Good Luck.

Eric Prather

Bicentennial Eagle

ASM Troop 915

Canal Fulton, Oh.

Rumor has it this time that they are going to be more selective about staff. They has some people on 2005 that were not as fit as they should have been. Supposedly the physical/medical requirements will be simular to Philmonts. At least that is what is being portrayed on the Jambo-L.

Talk with your SE. He will have to sign off on approval for any staffers coming out of his Council. Good luck.

FScouter,

It probably depends on what state you live in. Ohio declared Sept. 11th as Patriot's Day, and all flags are to be at half mast.

Eric P.

GW,

Gee, it sounds like you fell hook line and sinker and followed through just like the author wanted, the movie first, then the book series, "I thought the movie was pretty good. Read the book to and enjoyed it". Now granted, you're an adult and can read through the symbolism that a youth might miss.

ScoutNut, now I always heard that PLAYBOY had good articles and stories, but would you want a Scout reading PLAYBOY because of the articles and stories? NOT! LOL. Granted, Ms Jacobs probably should have checked out her source, and then the books and authors on the list she used, before publishing her article.

Trev, I can see where the non-Judaic and Christian faiths may have missed the controversy back in the fall. The author and movie weren't bashing the Wiccans

and Earth bases religions.

NJCub, the last line in my post was meant as tongue in cheek, but you never know what the future has in store.

Beagle, good site and information.

Apache Bob, at least Harry was fighting evil.

I don't believe in censoring books. I would be the first to fight against such things. But I do feel that you need to know the intentions of the author, and understand what you are reading or having your children read. Maybe reading it with your son or daughter, so that you can inform them as to the meaning of the symbolism, might be a good idea. I know several people that have done that with their children throughout "HARRY POTTER" series.

Well, SCOUTING Magazine's article "GUYS READ GUYS BOOKS" just went against the dread "G's". In the list of books for older Scouts, the articles author has listed Pullman's "THE GOLDEN COMPASS". Ms Jacobs must have been on vacation on a deserted isle last fall when the movie version created such controversy among the religious community, that the movie bombed immediately. Not to say that the book might not be a good read, but considering it promotes Atheism with the main characters goal being to killing God in the last book of the trilogy, is this what we want our Scouting reading on their own. It might be a good book to read, if it is being read with "THE LORD OF THE RINGS", showing a comparison between good and evil.

So much for an organization that insists that you believe in a higher power to be a member, and goes all the way to the Supreme Court to keep the membership exclusive.

Maybe Irving is gently informing us in a round about way that membership requirements may be changing soon to get the numbers up.

belayer,

So the SM vetos a Scout post election. Let's not be niave here. Scouts like to talk, even after elections. Sooner or later it will come out, "Yep, John, I voted for you. What happenned? You didn't get called out!"

WHO'S going to be on the hotseat now? I would think I would have a more irate parent, and a Scout with a more severely wounded self confidence now to handle, and probably lost some major respect from both the parent and the Scout along the way. Now I'm going to be tied up with having to handle damage control.

I don't want to come across as pounding your stones, maybe pounding some common sense in to the head instead (this is the place for one of Beavah's little smiley faces, but I don't remember how to do it), but just because Shawnee has been skating by on this issue for 40 years doesn't make it any more right and legal then let's say the South and civil rights issues way back when. "We've done it that way for years.", doesn't mean it was legal or morally right. Maybe it is time for Shawnee to stop living in the past, reform a little, and move into the present

Roarus and Twocub,

I agree when it comes to having a SMC with each nominee before elections. PRE-DAMAGE CONTROL. I think is would be easier and less stressful to have a list of nominees turned into the SM 4-6 weeks ahead of elections. Each nominee is pulled in for a SMC to discuss OA and the candidates expectations, and whether they really want to persue OA. This is also our time to discuss with the nominee any concerns we (SM's) have with them about their spirit, and ask them what steps they feel they need to take to rectify their shortcomings. If those steps might take a year, I discuss with them that there is always next year, they will be more mature and wiser, (just like holding Jimmie back a year before starting kindergarten) and will have more interest, time, and hopefully more fun. Then do everything you can to keep them busy with the Troop.

760,

"Do you think the SM at least has some right to know what's going on with OA outtings for the sake of YP?"

- YP concerns. There is more YP going on at OA outting then you can imagine. It may be youth run, but that is what the advisors are for. Our lodge has probably a good 20 adults at Ordeals and Fellowships keeping an eye on everything.

- As for keeping informed, have your SPL assign an OA Troop Rep. Then make sure that he makes the chapter meetings and LEC meeting if he is interseted. This way someone is bring back Lodge and Chapter information to the Troop (a big problem in many Lodges). Take stoutldr's advice and if you have the time and can offer a little something to the Lodge, go through Ordeal and let the scouts see that a leader thinks the program is worth being involved in.

Sorry to be lengthy. Just my $20.00 worth by the time you get done adding up all the $.02.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Geneology was a big obby of mine back in the 70's when I was a scout. Luckily for me, there seemed to be someone in the family who had giid information on several of the different branches. We could trace most back to the early 1800's or mid to lat 1700's.

My dad's mother had a cousin who spent 30+ years tracing the one line. She was able to trace it back to the 1060's England. It was pretty vague up to the 1300's, then became quite detalied. There were several Knights, Lords and different battles mentioned. A high school budy and I found out that we were several generations removed, him being the direct decendent of the bastard son of Henry III and I being a decendent of the Great (times 4) grandsughter of Henry I. We also found thet we are the dierct decendents of Edward Marian Wingfield, the first president of the Jamestown Colony.

As for biracial, I wouldn't be surprised sinve the family was in Va. for centuries.

Our project now is trying to trace my wife fathers line. Her great grandmother was full blood Cherokee. Tracing native lineage is very difficult. One thing hampering the effort is the neame was changed because her grandfather and his brother were shinihg also. Gern, maybe they ran together.

My wife and I use to have fun with the coat of arms kiosks in the malls. They could only trace the tree back to the 1300's.

bkale,

Wow! What a project. It is looking good. This is somthing that could definitely work in the Venture realm. Have you talked with our favorite people down in Texas about BSA recognizing this? Don't forget the Girl Scouts and Campfire Scouts.

Good Luck.

AhoyDave,

Before your son was tapped out, had he attended a tap out ceremony?

Did you talk with any of the Lodge leadership about your concerns about your son and Ordeal?

My son falls into the autistic spectrum. He had seen at least three ceremonies. He wanted to be in OA, but felt he would never be elected. He was excited when he was. he couldn't wait for Ordeal. We had several talks about how he would be required to stay silent for 24 hours, which with Dan staying quiet for one or two minutes is nearly impossible. Luckily for us, several of the Lodge leadership knew Dan and were aware of his issues going into Ordeal. To all of our suprise, Dan didn't mutter hardly a sentence the whole 24 hours.

See about having your son renominated and tapped out again. Talk with the Lodge leadership and ceremony team, so that maybe your troop and son can be located in a special spot so the team knows this is the scout they nedd to handle differently and gentle. Work something out with the leadership for Ordeal ahead of time. Maybe there is an Elongomat on the team that has SN experience, or that your son may know that could be his aide if needed. If your not in OA, maybe you can go through it with him, then you and your son assist the Lodge with other SN scouts coming through.

Also, when our troop lost most of the older scouts aging out and became a very young troop, it took the younger new guys about a year to figure out and get use to Dan.

tagguy,

Sorry, I just came across your post. I'll have to assume that this boy has crossed over or quite. Here are a few suggestions for the next time you are presented with this situarion.

1. I would try to have a sit down with the parents, present DL and the SM to discuss corssing over and what their needs and expectations are from the troop. You can talk with the DL about how he handle situations. You can tall the parents how you think things will work.

2. Invite the parents and the DL to a meeting with the troop leaders (SM, ASM's SPL JASM's) to cover the information from the first meeting with them.

3. Maybe there is a scout in the troop that may know the boy and family and would be willing to help him. It would actually be better if there were two or three scouts. That way if one was absent from a meeting, he would still have someone he would be comfortable with at the present. This would also give the three of them a chance to switch off if needed during a meeting or outting. This would have worked well in the old days when the Dens were mixed age and not by grade level.

Does your troop have a Dne Chief working with the Den that the boy is coming out of that may be able to take him under his wing until he gets use to new group?