ASM915

Forgot one little tibbit. If your child might be reacting to Red Dye, Make sure that you have your MD check the ingredients in the medications. A lot of med.'s have Red Dye in them even though they are Blue, Purple, Orange, Yellow Pink, etc this was a major cause of our trip through the list of Psych. med's that didn't work or made things worse.

PeteM,

Know what your going through with the son.

To all you parents out there that have boys (and girls) with the cursed ADD/ADHD, if the child has MOOD SWINGS, SUDDEN BURST OF ANGER, MELT DOWNS WHEN THE MED'S WHERE OFF, be sure you are actually dealing with ADD/ADHD. I have 16 1/2 years experience as a parent with a child, from 3-8 y/o being diagnosed as ADHD and from 8 y/o to present with Bipolar Disorder with ADHD Tendencies.

The difference? Prepubescent it is literally impossible to differentiate between the two. 50% prepubescent bipolar childen are misdiagnosed as ADHD. Two reasons. One, the child appears very hyper due to the rapid cycling mood swings, several times in 1 hour, therefore mimicking ADHD. The second, until recently the psychiatric community refused to believe that a child could be Bipolar until they went through puberty, and some still do.

How can you tell? Something just doesn't sit quite right or fit the normal ADHD profile; mood swings, angry outbursts, the child does not really respond to the med's the way they are suppose to, threatening to hurt themselves and or others, and I'm talking at very early ages, 3,4,5.

Pete. You said pulling a knife isn't like an ADD/ADHD kid. Your right.

MaScout, the scout grabbing your hands an ramming the knife in his chest. Guess What?

Our youngest was and still on occasion can be a handful. We always questioned ADHD because I'm ADD and my brother is ADHD. During college research, my brother was able to trace the ADD back 2 more generations. When my youngest, Dan was 5 or 6 we finally broke down and started the Ritalin path. As the Ritalin went up additional med's were add to handle mood swings and agitation. The regimen got so complicated on what he had to take when, that he was finally admitted at 8 y/o to go off all med's cold turkey and start all over. We were told by the doctor that "I'm going to put him on this old tricyclic antidepressant which for some reason works with these ADHD kids. Why it works we have know idea."

We went through the Psychiatric medicine cabinet from A-Z.

A year or two later a psychologist asked if we had heard of the book "THE BIPOLAR CHILD" by Poupolis and Poupolis. We bought the book and read it. you would have thought that they had taken Dan and put him on stage and wrote down everything he did. It more than fit like a glove.

If you have an ADHD diagnosed child this needs to be mandatory reading.

Your ADD drugs compound the problems because they can cause manic behavior. These are the children you hear about that get worse on the med's.

He's on a decent regimen now. It's still enough med's to put half the hospital I work in asleep. When he is late taking his med's, you know it within an hour. Then it takes another half an hour to kick in.

Also, Red Dye (and just reported in the last few weeks Yellow Dye) in certain children can screw with their Neurotransmitter chemicals in the brain, and yes they get hyper, agitated and climb the walls. Raw Dairy can also cause the same symptomology and look both like ADHD.

Luckily the other leaders in our troop are great with trying to understand and work with Dan. His school is also set up as a special needs troop that works with ADD/ADHD, Bipolar, Aspergers and some others. Talk about leaders being put to the test.

Conditions shouldn't be used as an excuse for bad behavior, maybe the root cause. The leadership needs to be made aware by the parents or at least asking the parents at registration if there is anything that we need to know about the boy so as to try to understand him and help him.

If anyone has any questions or would like more specifics about the difference between ADHD and Bipolar symptomology and how to work with theses scouts pleas contact me privately and I be more then glad to assist you.

SWS,

Aren't they already serving their unit? They 're already thirteen, First Class and have their 20 days/nights of camping in. By this time they hopefully are serving their unit. If not, then there is something wrong somewhere.

Aren't OA members also suppose by offering up CHEERFUL SERVICE to their fellow scouts? Aren't there scouts at the LODGE level and scouters at the Council level that fall under FELLOW SCOUTERS? Don't these scouts(ers) deserve CHEEFUL SERVICE?

The main point I was trying to convey was:

1) A lot of 13 y/o's have no idea what OA is all about.

2) They should be informed about the FUN,PERKS and BENIFITS that they are entitled to as well as the CHEERFUL SERVICE that they should be willing to participate in.

3) They should be educated what services the LODGES provides and for whom the services are provided to (Council, district, troop, chapter, section on up to National.

4) Do they want to be in OA after being eductated on the OA?

5) That if they want to be elected as a member that it is not all about another COOL PATCH TO WEAR ON THE RIGHT POCKET, A SASH OVER THE SHOULDER or another item to put on a future resume, but that there is a responsibility that is suppose to go with wearing the patch and sash.

6)Are they willing, if elected, to take on that responsibility and participate in some, not every, but some of the Chapter and or Lodge functions?

Our troop elects 2 or 3 scouts every year for Tapouts. They all have gone for Ordeal, received their patch and sash, and then stop. In the last 5 years there has only been one scout from our troop that has shown any interest in OA after getting Ordeal. The others show up at the ice cream social at summercamp, but that is the only time you see them.

Our Chapter has 17 troops. Figure @ 350-400 scouts. Figure at least 250-300 Ordeal or higher members. There are 10 Chapter meetings, a Winter Banquet, 2 Fellowships, 2 Ordeal Weekends, Conclave totaling 16-20 events a year. If 10% would show up at each Chapter meeting, that would be great, except for the part when I hit the floor from fainting. There are 6 Districts in the Lodge. I'm not sure on the Lodge membership, but lets say multiple our number by 6. That's 2000-3000 members. If 10% showed at Lodge functions, they would be burying me after the shock.

I'm not saying that once the boy is in the LODGE that all his time should be LODGE time and the troop takes a backseat. I'm just saying if the scout wants to be in the OA, at least show an interest and participate in some functions, otherwise decline being put on the ballot and allow another scout that is interested the chance to get elected.

AK-E,

What time of year was the campout? I suggested the same thing for next year, maybe late Apr. or May with a combined pack/troop campout. The only problem that keeps being brought up is, If we do it that late is there is enough time before summer camp to get the boys ready?

I love OGE's ideas. Our problem is that our feeder pack has always done crossover in Feb.

Has anyone here managed to talk the pack into having crossover later in the spring? If so how did you approach them, and how did it work out for the troop with summercamp approaching fast?

Eagle Pete and FScout,

What's with "HAMMERING ON THEM" comeback. We're talking jokes here, hopefully not hands on abuse. Send the Gauntlet Patrol back to their tents.

By rthe way, FScout, what's the "F" stand for?

Did you here the one about the dyslexic Agnostic and the dyslexic Atheist? yhe Agnostic wondered whether there really was a Dog while the Atheist believed there was no such thing as a Dog.

Sorry couldn't resist. I'm can take a R.C. joke standing up if you have one. Oops, seriously was the joke allowed? If not I apologize in advance.

DK, marinated or smoked? By the way when you arrive park your vehicle in the third closet on the right.

Rooster? Maybe on the spit or in the oven.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

DK,

Right you are. I didnt mean for the post to come off sounding that all N.A. believe in Jesus. I just wanted adc to clarify his post, having a good idea what he was really trying to say. Precontact, yes their spirituality was and is still Earth Based. The nice thing about the N.A. is they are adapt. Many have converted, but are still able to keep their identity because they were able to see, blend and use the good from both. I have friends that grew up Christian, believe in God and Jesus and are now practicing Pagans. Years ago on PBS, there was a program or series on religion. The host was a practicing minister in one of the Protestant denominations, was a practicing Buddhist and went to Temple on Sat. for Sabbath. It was very interesting.

LongHaul, At least National is letting the Cubbies, Web.'s and Ventures use Religion as an elective for their rank andvancement. They just forgot about us bastard kids of the PRETWEENS. It's not an elective for us, just a rarely mentioned side program.

DK, How about a Religious/Cultural Diversity Camporee or Jamboree? We'll invited the Earth-Based gang, the the Judeo-Chritians, Muslims, Hindi Buddhist, heck anyone who will come.

Simple rule:

1) Come respectfully with an open mind wanting to learn about and meet new friends.

2) Be respectful of other participants beliefs.

3) Everyone could give a simple presentation on their specific religion and culture and how we can work together for a better world.

4) Offer up a PEACE OFFERING of their favorite cuisine. No better way to make friend then sharing food and drink. adc you bring the burgers, I'll bring the spices.

DK, adc, LongHaul and Trev., where are you all from and what background? Send it off forum if you prefer. Just curious who my acquaintances are.(This message has been edited by ASM915)(This message has been edited by ASM915)

KC,

I agree with Beav. on most of his post.

Have the scout be the First Aid Officer under the supervision of an adult. This gives the scout a safety valve. He has someone he can go to with concerns and questions.

As to medications, our camp has a 2 logbooks at each site. One for Medications. By the way which are kept in a lock-box, except for Inhaler, Epi-pens and Insulin. Every time a scout takes his med's, it is documented in the book (Camp CYO). The second book is for FIRST AID RENDERED from CPR to a band-aid. Have the you FAO in charge of reminding the scout to take his med.'s and documenting it in the book after the med is taken, but have an adult dispense the med. Believe me the boy will be after the scout as well as the adult.

AS for rendering aid: Adults get lazy and the Alzheimer's, WOW. Ive seen adults want to jump in there forgetting everything they were taught, wanting to move the injured or making lite of situations that are serious.

As for the scouts, especially the young ones, you have to remember that they are sponges and don't forget a damned thing, particularly if blood and guts are involved. I've seen boys get right up in the adults face citing verse and scripture out of the handbook or MB book telling the adult "Your not suppose to do that" or "Stop!! Your doing it wrong." The boys remember, the adults forget. Usually the boy is right. The problem is the adult doesn't like being wrong and will argue with the boy.

Here's some guidelines for a youth Troop First Aid Officer

1) Appoint to the JASM, Troop Guide or Instructor, ASPL (as last resort). The SPL and ASPL will probably be to busy with meetings, and keeping the campsite running smoothly.

2)The youth has to be very mature mentally. He can't be a gossip. HIIPA. He has to know when to go to an adult for advice or help, so not to get in over his head.

3) He has to keep track of the records in the books.

4) The youth answers to the SM, ASM and other designated adult(s). He has to have the trust of the boys and the adults and keep the trust. If an adult comes over and asks "Whats Johnie's issue " or "What med is that there that Johnie takes?" " Is Johnie a bed-wetter? You an tell me", the youth needs to know to direct the adult to the SM or ASM. Some adults are worse then kids when it comes to gossiping and cruel pranks and the info is none of their business.

5) Have the FAO and the SM or ASM pull the scouts with special considerations aside and let them know that he is here for them to come to if they need assistance and he wont tell other scouts about their problems, they can trust him.

6) Definitely First Aid trained. WFA, WFR the highest level possible, and CPR. Not the camp's 1 hour "Heres how you do it, now show me" series, but the real thing.

Troop Suggestions

1) The whole troop, boys and especially adult are AHA or ARC CPR trained (makes for a nice indoor winter activity). Who knows, the boys might have to perform CPR on one of us OLD GEEZERS while out hiking.

2)All adults that attend camping trips are First Aid trained ( ARC, WFA, WFR, etc.)

3) 4 Adults on the trip. If something happens and a boy needs the ED, 2 adults need to go and 2 need to stay. The 2 staying better know what to do if something else happens.

4) Make use of the buddy system with the boys. The buddies can act as the reminder also. They can also act as a spare set of eyes keeping close watch on their buddy if he has a condition. Educate the partner on what he might want to be watching for if his buddy starts to have problems and what to do.

5) I like the double buddy system, 4 boys. If something happens to one boy, he still has a partner with him while the other 2 go for help.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Well put DanKroh. Could CoG have a parallel criteria for the Non-Earth Based religions like the Catholics do for the Roman Catholic Rite And the Eastern Orthodox Rites? Both could cover all the general principles of the religion and then each, the specific differences between them. Short of like the original premise of the God and Country before the Protestant decided to make individual awards denomination specific to align with their doctrine.

Maybe the Pagans could come up with a Pagan faith awareness award.

The Catholic Church had some many different Rites, Roman, Orthodox, Eastern, etc. that they came up with the International Awareness Award. Do two of the following:

1)Conversed with people of the different Rites,

2) Talk with someone from another country or who has traveled and lived in another country about the cultural differences in how the religion is practiced

3) Learned a scouting and a religious phrase in the language of the other Rite

4) If poss. attended a Mass of another Rite or in a different language

5) Earn the Citz. in the World MB

6) Earn the Interpreter Strip

There's nothing wrong with teaching diversity.

adc,

Can you reference

"THEY (the Native Amer.) DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS."?

Inless you talk with some of the really oldtimers or some of the really hardcore shaman, most do believe. They do believe in God, as they put it, but never knew he had a name until us Eurocentric's showed up for the land grab. Oh boy, here I go again!! As a Deleware/Cherokee friend of mine once said, "I'm so conflicted. One side of me hates the other side of me."

I know some of the tribal shamans in some of the more isolated tribes and Rez.'s have a very strong influence over their tribes and and try to get their peolpe to not convert to the whitemans religion. But when the peolpe saw that a lot of their old stories parallel the ancient stories of the prodominate religions, (unworldly visitors, dreams and visions), they had the wisdom to see that most religions have a common begnning

Having been to rhe Rez. a few times for POWWOW, the Powwow is always opened with a prayer to The Great Spirit Grandfather,Son and Holy Spirit.

CNY,

Since everything is located within the county park and we're are talking a bulletin board, not a walkin information center, you probably won't have a major problem. Something already had to be approved for the CO to apply for and get the grant money for the project.

Your scout is the PROJECT DIRECTOR. Even though he is doing the project for the CO, he can still request assistance from the CO's laison with communication between the parties involved and to help coordinate any meetings and joint work sessions between the scouts, the CO and the parks. The scout can then use this laisons time involved as part of his total project hours, as long as the laison was following the PROJECT DIRECTOR'S requests.

My sons Eagle Project involved making a documentary on how Native Americans built cattail siding for wigwams so it wouldn't become a lost art. The wigwam was in a county park. The park employees were more then willing to help. He had everyone keep track of their hours from park employees, to scouts, to his Native Advisor to the elders who came to the project site and smugged (blessed) the cattails being used and the people working on the project.

Just make sure that the CO understands that once everyone signs as to what the initial sccope of the project is, there will be no addtions or major changes. Have a park representative also sign off at the beginning as well as at the end along with the CO. This way everyone is on the same page.

ANARCHIST, it sounds like someone within the county doesn't like the BSA. Maybe some of the above mentioned expierences and suggestions might help your scouts in the future.

GB, a question for you.

The Hindis and Buddhist have a Scouting Religious award, how come the Druids, Wiccans and Pagans don't?

Merlyn, How about one for the ATHIESTS? It could be 4 months of course work on disproving GOD. If they can disprove God ,then they get the Award.

adc,

I got mt ashes yesterday. How about you?

I assume that "those of you who don't" was just an exprassion and not necessarliy aim at mio? I guess playing DEVILS ADVOCATE can lead someone to think I have different values when actually I'm right there with you.

Okay, we'll change the phrase to MY GOD ( IF I HAVE ONE). ana ddition of 5 words. Hows that work for you?

And GB, ess or esses, what ever works.

Packsaddle, Know anyone in Texas?

Here's an old one and a new one in the works at this moment.

Two years ago at summer camp we had a Pittsburgh troop in Outpost in the sites behind us. On Thur. night a few of their older scouts came over to our camp around midnight and started talking with some of our scouts. Before long, the ghillie suit from my earlier posting made a reappearance. The Pa. boys loved it. They asked if Dave would come over to their site for a prank. They had been telling ghost stories a little earlier and had just bedded down the younger scouts. Dave donned his suit and before their eyes vanished into the shadows. they took him to their site. Once there he went upto a tent and proceeded to shake it. At first the scouts inside would just call out a name of one of their other scouts that they thought was shaking the tent. After about the 3rd time one of the scout unzipped the fly and looked out. Of course Dave had backed up 10 feet and dropped to the ground and was invisible. The scout zipped up the tent back up. A few minutes later the tent was shaking again. After about 5 times one of the scouts got smart and the minute the tent started shaking he through open the zipper. Dave dropped to the ground only about 4 feet from the tent as the zipper came open. The scout looked out from under the fly only to see a pair of eyes staring back at him. He turn to get his tentmates attention yelling," I see its eyes. It's right infront of the door" In the 30 seconds it took him and his buds to look back ou the door, Dave had rolled about 5 feet to the left and there was nothing there. The other boys told the one to just go to sleep and stop exaggerating.

The next morning I went over to talk with their SM about a joint COPE Progam. He askedif we had had a visitor the night before. I told him no but had heard his troop had. One of the younger scouts came running up to tell me all about the night before. The SM and I sat there smiling doing all we could to keep from laughing as the boy retold the story for the umpteenth time that morning.

After the scout left us alone, I let the SM in on the gag.I asked if he wanted Dave to bring the suit over. He politely declined stating we would let the story go back to Pa. as the LEGEND OF 7 RANGES. While we were talking the older scouts came over wanting to know where Dave was. I told them he was napping in his hammock. Before we could say BOO they were gone. About 10 minutes later they came marching back into camp yelling, " look waht we found over in the field!!" Here they came carrying the THING from the night before. All you could see was all this grassy blob between the four of them. they were holding it at knee level. All the younger scouts came running to where we were. As the younger scouts gathered around, the four older ones let the thing drop with a thud. It lay there on the ground not moving. One of the younger ones asked "Can I kick it to see if its still alive?" With that Dave rolled over and said BOO. Everyone laughed. The younger ones couldn't beleive that someone had pulled one over on them and said it was the greatest gag ever.

#2. A little history first. The new SM was the year before Webelos leader who crossed over with his boy last spring.

Last weekend I attended this years crossover. Afterwards I met a few minutes with the boys and asked them to come uo with a patrol name for Mon. night. theyimmediately yelled The LLAMAS. With this their den leader, soon to be an ASM with me, stated "If you boys use that name the SM is surely going to quit"

The year that the SM went to WRC as den leader, the camp staff performed the LLAMA SONG to the delight of the boys. The boys liked the song so much that they drove Mr. A so crazy that he banned the word LLAMA. Things quieted down until spring just before crossover when the LLAMA thing reerupted. It took a few weeks to calm down again.

Now you know the history and the target who is good for a gag or two.

The soon to be new ASM and myself are having the boys make their new patrol flag at the troop open house this coming Mon. They're going to put a LLAMA on the flag. When Mr. A says " Oh no LLAMAS", the boys are to reply "LLAMAS? What are you talking about? They're ALPACAS."

GAG RULES:

If you dish it out, be able to take it when it's your turn.

Make sure the target is good for gags.

That the gags are harmless fun.

Hope you all enjoyed the stories.

LONGFELLOW. I love the Snipe story. Can you email me more specifics. I think we'll go snipe hunting this summer.

OGE, I hear your up for another Grammy. Something to do with LLAMAS.

acd294,

What would it take to petition National to add 1 word to the Scout Oath. That simple two letter word would put an end to this question? The word would be an additional "MY". We already have "DUTY TO MY COUNTRY". Let's just add the additional "MY to "do my duty to MY GOD, and my country." This way no one has to wonder to whose God they are paying homage to. By saying "MY GOD", then they are being dutiful to only to the God of their repected religion, and if "MY GOD" means no God to them, so be it. This way no one is being forced to except any belief other than their own.

WHAT SAY THE YE AND WHAT SAY THE MASSES? DO WE START A PETITION DRIVE OR NOT?

OGE,

He must have really love his golf buddy to drag him 18 holes. I thought that was what the sand traps where for, quick and easy burial. Golf clubs? Golf buddy? Golf Clubs? Golf buddy? GOLF CLUBS!!

Theory 2: The ED doc on tonight wondered whether the guy had T.M. training, like a swami and put himself into a trance like state? Did the article give a recovery time?

My son was wondering if the guy was playing Nine Pins at the party before this happened? Maybe it was a Hairy Buffalo party gone awry. Talk about a modern day Rip Van W.

TREVORUM? WHAT ARE YOU DOING TREVORUM? TREVORUM? ARE YOU THERE TREVORUM?

Interesting. Here's a theory. Talking with my son and some others from the medical community, the discussion lead to barometric pressure and temperature. The thought was being up in the mountains if there was a 20-30 degree drop in temp. over a short period of time and a change in the barometric press., could this elicit a mammalian reflex? The concensus was the sudden cold against the face,

from air or water and any change in pressure against the face definitely could cause the reflex. But for 24 days. WOW!!

Trev., what movie is the first line from?

Oh, thanks for the email.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

EVMORI,

Signed by the Scoutmaster, yes, as stated in the third paragraph of my previous post, but not the MBC.

Boy Scouts Requirements 2006 or 2007 is also a good reference.

Here's three for you.

Dick, a SM in our district, holds the unofficial COWPIE Fall Camporee on his farm, usually drawing 150 scout. One year, one activity was the old Snipe Hunt. The troop leaders' were privy to the weekend activities.

A coworker of mine, Kevin, is an ASM for one of the troops. Kevin and the SM gather the boys, gave them the needed equipment for catching Snipes, and headed out into the woods and fields with them. Now Dicks farm is about a 1/4 - 1/2 a mile deep and about 2-3 miles long. Kevin and the SM managed to lose the scouts and double back to their site. An hour or so later the first scouts started returning to camp empty-handed. the first thing out of their mouths was, " There are no such things as Snipes, is there." With that, Kevin and the SM turned around stating, "Why sure there are. Where is yours? We've already caught, cleaned and cooked ours." as they sat there eating a Cornish Hens they were cooking over the campfire.

2) Again at the COWPIE.

Another year one of the day activities was First Aid skills. That night during the campfire, someone came running up to Dick yelling someone was lost. Well Dick proceeded to pull out 6 or 8 sectional maps of the farm (over 300 acres), divide the boys up into the equivalent number of search parties and send them on their way.

During the day some of the adults had been at the house making homemade moulage out of everything from catsup and sugar to cased sausage from the local butcher. One ASM, who won the best makeup, had a cow bone sticking out of his pant leg, chicken bones out of his gloves and the sausage out from under his coat. The first scout that found him said, " Man, I know I can't help you, but I sure can help those scouts coming up the trail" and with that threw a blanket over him.

Back at the makeshift command post, runners would come to Dick yelling, " we found the person and they are hurt." (Dick had 6 people scattered throughout the farm not just one.) Dick would respond, " Where are they and do they need an ambulance?" A couple of the scouts in their excitement had forgot the location or the condition, and before Dick could tell them it was alright, they would turn running back into the woods yelling to Dick, " Hold on a minute. We'll find out" All he could do was sit back and have a good laugh.

Our summercamp staff hold two one night campouts for the Camping and Wilderness Survival MB every week. They haul the scouts over to Outpost on the far side of the lake. This is where our troop camps. One Tues. night a couple of staffers showed up at our camp at 11 PM looking for my eldest. They had known him from the last couple of years and knew he was a camouflage expert and could literally move around without being detected. This boy had a ghillie suit so unbelievable that you would step on him during the middle of the day.

It just so happened that the staffers were having a problem quieting some of the lads down and requested Dave's services.

Dave donned his suit and followed the staffers to their site. He let them go up the hill and settle in. He then crawled up the hill between the overnighters, making mental notes on who the noisy ones where. On his way back down the hill, he would reach out and grab a hold of an ankle or a sleeping bag and pull the unsuspecting scout 5-10 feet down the hill yelling "Somethings got me." He even crawled up to three of our own boys who were sleeping, tapping them on the shoulder. They would look up and accuse one of the others of doing it, never seeing him. The staffers thought it was the greatest thing they had ever seen.

Hope you enjoy.

OLD GRIZZLY

packsaddle,

Right you are. On GOOGLING "Eagle scout application packet", it turns out that I had clicked on a couple of different Council sites. On entering the NESA site and pulling up the actual application, I see my error. Our Council just so happen to be doing the same thing as several other Councils when it came to requiring the 6 letters of recommendation.

As for world dominance, yes the arrogance and ignorance is there. My family, especially the oldest son has experienced it in our own church (and Scouting Council), when it comes to understanding Native Culture & Spirituality. If there is something that doesn't seem to fit with the way the church does things or they don't understand, then yes they have a tendency to take the approach you cited.

Try explaining to a clergy or youth ministers that Sweet Grass, Sage, and Tobacco in a pipe being offered to the Great Spirit is the same as offering God incense especially when the blend has the same aroma as Pot, or that Pipestone is sacred and considered the blood and bones of the ancestors just like the Holy Eucharist is the Blood and Body of Christ. It's all symbolism.

Brotherly love should be dominate, and all religions and cultures tolerant and respectful of one and another.

Sorry for the rant.

Gentlemen,

I stand corrected on 1 point. On further research, yes, one parent may write a letter as the religious leader for the boy, but according to the packet directions there still has to be 6 letters of recommendation. No where does it say optional.

Trevotum,

I have no problems with someone disagreeing with me, but please quote the whole phrase so others know the real meaning. I was not advocating converting the whole world to Christianity. What I was getting at was pushing our religious values on others of different faiths. My oldest son had the privilege to travel abroad in his early teens meeting people of different cultures and faiths. When asked about being involved in missions work his reply was " I may be very religious, but I don't believe on pushing my religion onto others. If they are interested in my religion and come asking questions, then I am more then willing to talk with them."

For 20, he is wise beyond his years.

Seeing that a scout is "Do my duty to God... and help other people at all times", I have an project idea relating to religious and culture awareness.

Has anyone ever heard of the ULSTER PROJECT. It's been around for 30 some years. it is where the Catholic and Protestant youth of N. Ireland are brought together for a month to promote peace between the two religious cultures.

I just read an article in OUTSIDE magazine about William Beck, a retired Naval officer who went to Iraq a few years back. He thought what better way to promote peace then throught Scouting. During his reseach he found that Iraq had a thriving Scouting movement before Saddam. He has been attemping to restart the program with some success.

In keeping with Mr. Beck's idea and the philosophy of the ULSTER PROJECT, would anyone be interested in helping put together a parallel project involving Shii and Sunni youth out of the Iraqi Scouing Movement? It's off the wall but would make an excellent SCOUTS OF THE WORLD/YOUTH OF THE WORLD project promoting peace and religious tolerance.

For a scout to receive his Eagle he has to have a letter of reference from his religious leader. Nothing states a boy can't become a scout because he's athiest. Some have actually come to know a God because of Scouting. The snag on getting Eagle is when the youth declares his atheism.

Our District Adv. person has always told the SM's, if they have a youth where the parents are atheist, but it is unknown of the youths intent, he will sit down and discuss the situation with the youth and get a religious leader to help if the youth so desires.

Does anyone know what other national scouting organizations require for their youth to achieve their top rank? Do they require a simular letter?

Christian, Judeaism and Islam all have the same God, just different messengers of the word. Some religions are a lot more tolerant of each other then some of the Christian faiths. It's nice to think we can go and convert the whole world to Christianity, but should we push our veiws on others. If it is to be, God will make it happen. Who cares whose God, as long as the values and brotherly love is there.

Peace be with you all regardless of your religion.

Old Grizzly(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Where does it state that a scout must get the blue card signed before he starts the requirements? The MBC isn't suppose to sign the blue card until the MB is complete. Do you mean initialing the specific requirement, like #1, on the back of the card if the MB is taking a long time to complete or the scout has received a only a partial?

If you read thru the MB requirements, the requirement will specify if the scout is to contact the MBC before starting said requirement for guidance (ie: Citz. in the COMM. " Watch a movie approved by YOUR COUNSELOR & YOU PARENTS." or F&WM - "Perform a conservation project APPROVED BY YOU COUNSELOR". This should be the only times to contact a MBC before starting the MB.

Now the SM is suppose to sign and date the blue card when he gives it to the scout. The scout then starts the MB.

If the scout is in the Band I would expect him to either sing or play a song unless I've already heard him in concert or at church. For other MB's, if he states he has completed the requirement at school, church, etc, he better be able to give a demonstration of the skill or produce documentation from a coach, teacher, pastor, etc that he has indeed completed said requirement if asked to. If it was last semester, I'm not going to hold that against him.

As for 20 nights camping, start the clock from the time he joins the troop. In our Council , SM or ASM can act as the Camping MBC. At Summer Camp or if the scout uses another MBC we provide a letter. If some of you out there think that the clock should start when he asks for the blue card, why not sign a card and give it to him his first night at a meeting. That alleviates all the guess work.