ASM915

LongHaul,

It all depends on the drug and how the person reacts being off the drug. Some drugs have longer halflives then others, meaning it takes longer for the system to get rid of one drug compared to another drug. In comparision, some drugs require 1,2 or even 3 weeks to even get up to theraputic levels before they start to work.

If side effects is the concern and reason for breaks, try some of the newer med's on the market. My one son can't handle any stimulants at all because they send him manic. The other son didn't tolerate Aderal but had no problem with Concerta, apetite was good, never lost his sense of humor, never had personality changes associated with Ritalin.

60-90 days, My brother says now that he hated when my parents did that to him. He would rather have stayed on the drugs. It takes 2-3 weeks to get it all out. If you start it the week school starts, the your not giving the drug enough time to build up to working levels.

It's better to leave them on the med's and if there are side effects look at other drug options.

How do the kids act when off the drug is another consideration.

A friend in toil

Be helpful to and loyal

They'll think you royal

There you go Gonzo Rhyming Haiku.

Twisting arms and legs

for any patient who begs

and pays with two eggs

There is a good doc named Jaime

whose Irish roots me does stymie

with a last name of Gonzo

doc I thought was Latino

is now leprechaunie

OGE & Trevorum,

I have a scout that Is Bipolar with ADHD Tendencies, High Functioning Autistic Spectrum Disorder. He probably can handle the MB's but his Learning Disabilities from the above will cause a significant delay in completing the requirements, probably not by his 18th birthday.

We're in the process of having his Psychiatrist and school Psychologist put together letters to Council requesting not alternative requirements, but an extension beyond his 18th birthday to complete the normal requirements.

Does BSA offer time extentions because of LD's causing delays?

Are we handling this the right way?

How would you guys proceed?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

HI, MY NAME IS ERIC AND I'M A REFORMED VIDEOGAME ADDICT. REALLY!

If I saved all those quarter from my college and engaged days, I'ld probably own the eastern seaboard. I could easily drop $10 a night, and this was in the late 70's, SPACE INVDERS, PACMAN and PINBALL MACHINES.

Now a days I still have to watch what I do, with free gaming on the computer, being able to do it at home and not go out anywhere. You get playing and lose track of time and all that stuff. Got to beat the system, just like gambling. Thank God I've never done that. I wish someone had read that article to me back in '77 when I became ASM the first time.

Yes ust, I'm going to read the article to them next meeting.

Beavah, your always into "Hey guys, what do ya think?" Read it to them and let them make their own determinations.

Pete, interesting site. Pretty much common sense or older info, but still applies.

Lynda, I like the idea.

St Patties Day weekend campout. NO ELECTRONIC DEVICES. Two of our older scouts buried the Ipods deep in their packs, had a late afternoon snack after a hard days work project, disappeared into the tent around 4:30 or 5 PM (didn't have the cooking duties for dinner), said they weren't hungry because of the snack (hotdogs) and came back out around 8 PM. Yep Bevah, had their earpieces in so no one could hear and find out they had Ipods. So much for TRUSWORTHINESS. I was talking to one of the parents and said that the boys were no supposed to have the devices. He replied that he had questioned the boy the night before about having the Ipod. The reply: "Dave said it would be alright if it was quiet", when in reality Dave said maybe in the car, but with the sound system in the car there was no need. SO MUCH FOR HONESTY and HONOR. This is a Life Scout. Shake them down once maybe twice, they realize you mean what you say, and maybe the TRUSTWORTHINESS AND ON MY HONOR"

might return.

Ea. I'm all for letting them show that they are TRUSTWOTHY, I just get frustrated when a few keep trying to circumvent the rules every time you turn your back, especially the older higher ranking scouts.

You mothers rod? What ever happened to the good old shellaly?

A good acquaintance of mine was nominated for and Received SB in Jan. He's one who doesn't toot his own horn. he's been SM for a long time. He tell good stories. The only way the people nominating him could get any information about past awards and recognitions was to send in a mole. They had one of the younger scouts walk up to him and said "Mr. C, I need some help with my Communication MB. I have to interview someone. Can I ask you a few questions? How long have you been in scouting? How long you been SM, bet you have some good stories? How about awards?"

When District announced he was going to receive the award, he originally had know idea how they found out so much about him, until he remembered the young scout asking him questions and being really interested in his tales of scouting. He thought it was quite ingenious using a 12 or 13 year old to run the interrogation.

Gonzo,

Maybe you should look at becoming a profession at Council, Then maybe you might have a Hamilton instead of only fi'dollah. Sounds like D.C. might be slipping on the income scale.

FB, Appaling? Which, the human bomb or the 72 virgins? Talk about M-E-T gone awry by 24 fold. Just kidding.

Eamonn, Silver Beavers for large sums of money!!! I thought that was what the James E. West Fellowship Award was for. Maaabe it's time to pull the crutches out from under some of those good old boys and give them the award they are actually deserving of and not water down the Silver Beaver.

Again talk about confusing." outstanding service to the District", "outstanding service to youth inside and outside of Scouting", Is service to the District the main determinating factor? Should the requirements be rewritten by National striking "Service to youth in and out of scouting" and have that part be considered under other achievements. Leave it to National to make thing confusing.

From the DAM nomination form:

Eagle, Den Leaders Award, DL Training Award, Cub Master Award Web. DL Award, Scouter Award, Scoutmaster Key, Silver Beaver, OA, Scouter Religious Awards. Also noteworthy service to youth inside and outside of scouting, their scouting position and the opportunity to render outstanding service beyond the expectations of the scouting program. Service to church, community organizations, professional affiliations that have involvement in the community that might be related to serving children.

I just submitted DAM nom. for our CC. It took 4 months to dig up anything on him because he's so quite about his past achievements. He was ASM for 1 yr., SM for 5 yr., Eagle, Worked a number of years on the camp honors staff, K of C, Parochial school sports equip. manager, Secretary for the HS Touchdown Club and I don't remember what else. It all looks good on the DAM form

Hope this helps.

Hey guys, it's back up and working, which leads to a few more questions.

1)Will all the poor souls who tagged "Do you wish to be notified by email......" no get flooded with response notifications that have been floating around in CYBERLAND for the last 6 weeks?

2) Will the unsuspecting recipients of my PM's now receive all the PM's that I've sent out over the last 6 weeks?

3) Will I receive PM's that were sent to me or is everything just blown away in CYBERSPACE?

Gonzo, I'll E-mail you tomorrow. Lead 3-11PM Resp. Supervisor.

NW, sounds like a great Hornaday project. Maybe we can start a new thread about the Feminization of Fish or the Mutation of Frogs due to flushing old med's down the pot. Only problem with collecting old med's is that a Pharmacist has to take them in, but then there is know real way to get rid of them after that. My 20 y/o did a term paper on the subject. What's your take Gonzo?

You didn't waste any time, did you Gonzo?

Brent, Yep, the PM is out also. Both have been out probably about 6 weeks. I've sent messages to "CONTACT US" also with no response from the moderators. "CONTACT US" must be down also. I'm not sure how many PM's I've sent in the six weeks, but the last reply back came from the "SUMMERCAMP PRANKS" site quite awhile ago.

Even sent Eammon a HAPPY ST PATTIES DAY last week. Sorry Ea. if you didn't get it.

Whoever was trying to unload the older size 42-44 red scout coat/Jackshirt, I'm intersted if you still have it. Gave my 70's edition to my 20 year old. The belly got to big.

Well I'm clicking on Email notification again. We'll see if it works this time.

Dud, wish I was ignorant. Then I could give mine a Med. Vacation, but I know better. Thank God for the Pharmacy Plan at work. I get away with $140 for three month supplies. Without it the 4 script's would cost $1000 - $1500 a month. Unfortunately they don't make generics for 2 of the med's.

My extended family consists of Pharmacist, Teachers and Medical Professionals and yes we've seen all three situations mentioned in my earlier thread on several occassions. Yes, sometimes the MD's suggests the vacation either because of the side-effects (and the MD only wants to use a particular drug and won't try another med.) or he/she knows the expense involved and thinks they are helping out (the parent maybe, but not the kid).

I have friends where when the kid goes to daddies house, he refuses to give the kid the med's saying they don't need it. When the kid is there for the summer, she doesn't get anything. When she comes back to mom, it's starting at square 1 all over. Dad does it to get at MOM and to save him a few bucks.

As for Ritalin, yes it does kill the appetite and sometimes the personality. But Ritalin is old, cheap but old and lots of side-effects. That's why Aderal, Concerta and Stratera were invented. Concerta is far superior to Ritalin, more expensive, but very few side-effects. If parents are giving the kids vacations due to the decreased appetites and flat affect, maybe they need to be looking for a med change and see if one of the new med's on the market work better so Sam and Jack don't have to take vacations. My brother said it was the worst thing they ever did for him. He hated not being able to stay focused on things during break and summer vacation.

John, If they still taught STALKING, and don't forget the other half, TRACKING for 2nd and 1st class requirements, maybe someone on the camp-out could have tracked and found him by nightfall. GOD forbid though, that would be to MILITARISTIC in nature. DARNED LIBERALS.

Yes I remember TRACKING and STALKING. We use to love it. Granted we had a river and large gorge at the end of our street that we could run down to after school or on weekends to practice and just have a good old time.

Why did they ever remove those requirements to begin with? Honestly, I really would like to know if anyone could fill me in on it.

Gonzo, here's a good reference book to help differenciate the two, ADHD or Bipolar. "THE BIPOLAR CHILD" by Papolos & Papolos. The statistics are staggering.

Asperger's or Aspergher's, sorry. Saw it spelled with an "H" several years ago. You know how us American's like to bastardize European words, like Paediatrics VS Pediatrics.

The youngest's school (geared for ADHD, ASPERGERS and BIPOLAR kids) is suppose to be set up as a CUB PACK, A TROOP AND A CREW. The gentleman that handles the few camp-outs that are scheduled each year, has it set up that PARENTS MUST ATTEND. PERIOD. NO PARENT, NO KID. YOU THE PARENT are responsible for medicating your kid.

Only been on one camp-out with him. We had 5 kids and 6 parents, that's out of about 250 kids between three schools within a 30 mile radius of the campground. Usually his campouts are planned on my weekend at the hospital.

Unfortunately, their PACK/TROOP/CREW really isn't working the way it should and noone in the management is willing to listen to ideas from different scouter parents who are involved in regular troops.

Gonzo, did you receive my Email earlier today?(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Antelope, no, not every kid that is 13-15 can be trusted to self-medicate, especially if they are truely ADD. They forget that they are to do things. That is why they are always getting in trouble over homework. If they can't remember homework assignments, what makes you think that they're going to remember to take their med's on time, if at all?

Let's get to the real reason for Med. Holidays:

1) 3 months in the summer giving the pocketbook a vacation. The med's

are expensive you know.

2) Weekends and days off school - Let's stretch the supply we have as

long as we can. Again, pocketbook relief.

3) A fast buck on the street, $10 -$20 a pill. Nice side income.

Sorry to take a negative view, but some parents really do do the above.

Let's remember true ADD/ADHD is best handled by a Behavior Health Specialist, yea the Shrink. The only reason that the Neuro's are involved is because of the TABOO that is placed on someone going to the shrink. When our Pediatrician asked us about a Neuro for our son and we said "NO, give us a shrink, they handle it better", she was thrilled and told us that most parents take offense when "SHRINK" is mentioned and run for the door.

Any child Dx'ed and medicated with a Behavior Related condition should never take a break from the medication. If the child is having problems/side-effects on a paricular regiment, the diagnosis needs to be reconsidered and make sure it is the right one.

Scout with questionable Behavior Issues should have a parent along for the trip to divie out the medications and handle their scout instead of leaving it for the SM and ASM's. My son is 16 and the other leaders know him well. There is only a few that I trust to remember to get the med's out on time. My oldest and I are usually on all the campouts (both ASM's) to handle the 16 y/o if needbe rather than hiding elsewhere for the weekend letting the other leaders worry about how to handle him, especially if he forgets his med's and fend for themsleves.

Gonzo, let's talk ADHD and Bipolar. A load of ADHD's are misDX'ed Bipolars. They are the ones who get worse on the Stimulants because the Stimulants through them to the Manic side of the spectrum. These are the kids that when placed on antidepressant and mood stabilizers all of a sudden improve and stop wanting to ponder suicide. The only true way to Dx the Bipolar is family Hx, especially one with Alcoholism in it anywhere in the last three generations. They're are both tied to the same gene. Kiddie Bipolar mimics ADHD because the kids have rapid cycling moodswings, several in an hour unlike adults where the cycles might take days and months to switch, therefore the kid appears hyper and the kid gets tagged with the wrong Dx.

Been there and been through it with the 16 year old.

As for Asperghers, different animal totally. Only comparision between them is that they all are Behavioral, different symptomologies, different problems. I've known a few, nothing like the other two, usually angry and ODD most of the time.

I feel for the kids, the parents and the Troops. It's not easy.

Lisa,Thanks for helping spread the word. That was from my post.

The Webelos decided to take us up on our offer and come campimg. They'll probably do thier own hike on a shorter trail. I'm not sure if they are capable of pulling off two 7-10 mile hikes in two days.

I'm still waiting to here from the Cub Pack if they are going to join us on Saturday, do their own hike, then hang around the campsite for dinner and a campfire.

Our boys will be able to get the JOTT patch as well as the Cuyahoga Valley Patch and Medal.

If your ever in Ohio, the Trail runs through the Cuy. Valley NP. It runs right through the middle of Great Trail Council's Camp Butler an borders Camp Manatoc. Every thing is right between Akron and Cleveland, less then 30 minutes to both. Lots of museums and sports nearby. 5 minutes from camp the y also have a professionally designed climbing facility.

Sorry, got of the subject there, theres just a lot to do in the area that makes good scout outings.

Enjoy the HIKING.

Later this year we'ra thinking about a rafting trip th the Yough. in southwester Pa. In discussions with the SM, I let him know that I refuse to take anyone under 14. They're usually to small in stature to be able to really paddle effectively if things get HAIRY.

Two years ago, there was a trip where two of us ( experienced around the water) allowed ourselves to be put into a situation that

we shouldn't have and almost became deaths 23 and 24 at that particular rapid., both pinned under water ander rocks. Cool heads, our own, prevailed by not panicking. It took 45 and 90 sec. to extricate and get to the surface. We had an unexpierenced adult that wouldn't listen and thought every thing was a game and fun, just like young scouts. Luckily the worst injury was a torn Quad.

For the planned trip, the younger scouts can canoe the Middle Yough. with proper supervision while the older scouts raft the Lower Yough. We 'll have to make sure we have plenty of adults for the trip to work, but usually this outing pulls a large crowd.

I agree with Beav. Unstructured outside play, definitely. I've been fortunate with two sons who love to be outdoors, granted that was where they've been since the spring of their first years. Tenting in April in heavy sleepers and the occasional snowsuit. The oldest was on the water at 5 months propped on cushions or papoosed. They were allowed to play in the forest around the site, play in the streams, mud etc. They're 20 and soon to be 17 and still can't get enough.They are rare for their generation.

Electronics, IPODS, GAMING STATIONS, ETC has ruined their generation when it comes to outdoor activities, unless a party is the activity, or a sport (soccer being the biggest culprit).

You tell the kids, "We're going out and plant some trees." or "We're cleaning up the trash from along the stream today." and you get, "Are you kidding? That sounds like work. Do we have to?"

You mention Hornaday you might as well mention Mao. The response is the same ,"Who"?

Ea, you didn't fail. Most of them just don't care anymore. If it either doesn't get them ahead, make them comfortable or feel good they figure why bother. There is so much apathy today toward the outdoors and conservation/enviromental related activities.

Hope the grandkids come soon.

gwd,

Is there a parent of one of the scouts that could attend one of the events with a registered scouter?

Could your DH head up the spelunking expedition with a parent or other scouter, and you attend the camporee with the under 14 crowd with another parent, depending on the weather and how it might effect you condition?

Thank you ust.

Chip and Pete, how do you feel about pack shakedowns before leaving on the trip. One of our 20 y/o ASM's has asked about the possibility of doing this before the parents leave the scout. Everyone one has seen the list of "WHAT NOT TO BRING" put out be the SM. This way any contrband can be given to the parents right up front when the kid is caught with the goods. (If caught with contraband on the trip, we pretty much are doing the same with holding the item until a parent is present.)

Or is this invasion of privacy? I'm all for it.

Also beware of the EARBUD. It is small like a hearing aid and can hold music downloads, and quite easily concealed.

Thank you ust.

Chip and Pete, how do you feel about pack shakedowns before leaving on the trip. One of our 20 y/o ASM's has asked about the possibility of doing this before the parents leave the scout. Everyone one has seen the list of "WHAT NOT TO BRING" put out be the SM. This way any contrband can be given to the parents right up front when the kid is caught with the goods. (If caught with contraband on the trip, we pretty much are doing the same with holding the item until a parent is present.)

Or is this invasion of privacy? I'm all for it.

Also beware of the EARBUD. It is small like a hearing aid and can hold music downloads, and quite easily concealed.

Thank you ust.

Chip and Pete, how do you feel about pack shakedowns before leaving on the trip. One of our 20 y/o ASM's has asked about the possibility of doing this before the parents leave the scout. Everyone one has seen the list of "WHAT NOT TO BRING" put out be the SM. This way any contrband can be given to the parents right up front when the kid is caught with the goods. (If caught with contraband on the trip, we pretty much are doing the same with holding the item until a parent is present.)

Or is this invasion of privacy? I'm all for it.

Also beware of the EARBUD. It is small like a hearing aid and can hold music downloads, and quite easily concealed.

16 Scouts

7 16-18 y/o 3 semi-active aging out this year as Eagles, 2 very

active, 2 non-active.

3 14-15 y/o 2 real active

2 12-13 y/o 1 very active and 1 semi-active.

4 Cossovers

1 SM (new)

8 ASM, 6 of us Eagle's (only one over 21, me at 47)

1 ASM works with the NSP

1 handles the website

1 as laison to Council and guiding/training the new ASM's.

Guess who?

2 in College

3 trying to get through thier Senior year but are present and

help at meetings

1 SM

15 Comm. Members

CC is former ASM, SM and works with the Life to Eagles.

1 for Popcorn

1 Advancement

1 Outdours

1 Treasurer

The other 10 step forward when needed.

gwd,i agree with Vicki. If you are comfortable with it, let the boy's in on it. Maybe incorperate the Disability MB while your at it.

Not a disability, at least not yet, but a week ago last Mon. I had a thyroidectomy. The shirts I had been wearing covered up the incision most of the time, except for the uniform shirt of course. Go figure. At the meeting this last Monday i never gave the uniform shirt a thought. Threw it on and went to the meeting. First thing in the door, a couple of the crossovers (it was their third meeting ) walked up looking at me, pointed at my neck and asked "WHAT HAPPENED?" At least I was fast on my feet replying, "TOTEM-CHIP GONE BAD BOYS, TOTEM-CHIP GONE BAD." Then we had a good laugh.

Let them know.

OGE,

1927 for Ford and 1957 for Bradley. In '27 football was probably from August with practice to maybe early November if they even played that many games back then, probably not 4 weeks of state tourney's either except maybe in Massillon or Canton Oh. As for Basketball in '57, Probably never even dreamed of traveling year round teams like today. That goes for all sports back then.

mtm,

Had one that was 4 year varsity swimmer, 1st year swam off season with US SWIMMING, was in the International Club, Spanish Club, German Club, associated with People To People International attending international youth peace forums, Youth group at church, working parttime, serving at Mass's, vol. for the county parks 4 hr's a week in wildlife rehabing and other park events and sat on the village park board as a student member. Sound like a lot.

He joined BSA at 15 years and 9 months as a sophomore, informed the SM that he planned on Eagle by the time he was 18 and wanted a time-line set up to do it. He served in POR, made 80% of the meetings, 80% of the camp-outs, all the service projects, OA, received his scouting religious award, actually joined a Crew during all this, ran a 350+ Eagle Project and still found time to date. He didn't even drive until he was 18, his choice.

Some troop fathers and adult leaders thought "How dare this boy come in here at this point, with no previous scouting experience and think he's going to get his Eagle." Some people at District had reservations also. The paperwork went through at 10:30 the night before he aged out. The other scouts loved him. He made the camp-outs fun for them, taught the skills better then most and in ways that were different, fun and not boring.

He knew what had to be done, when to do it and got it done. Granted there was about a 4-5 month period where he chilled out and didn't push on the merit badges, but kept up with everything else.

If the boys really want to do it, yes they can find the time with all their other activities. Football now is the 3rd week of July until the end of Nov. or the 1st of Dec. That leaves 7 months, @ 28 meeting, summercamp, 6 other camp-outs in the off season. During the season games are on Fri. with a rare Sat. game. There is know reason they can't come out after the game or the first thing on Sat. morning

(no practice then) for the rest of the weekend or make at least 1 if not 2 meetings a month.

Tonight at RT, it was for the Star and Life scout on what they need to do for Eagle and what District expects. Holding POR, Scout Spirit and yes, you better be active at the troop level, because if your not, they have the right to hold you up. When it has happen in one of our District, been appealed to Council and as far as National, guess what?, they lost. Our DAC notified the boys in the 22 years he has been DAC, a candidate has never been turned down under his watch due to the SM's being good and knowing what needed to be done, don't be the first.(This message has been edited by ASM915)