ASM915

starwolfmom,

The troop really wants you back on the committee. Why?

Do they want you to serve in a major position?

Can you handle CM and being a Comm. Member at the same time, while not taking anything away from the family?

Is your husband on the troop committee?

Could you stay CM and be on the troop committee as the Troop's Liaison to the Pack? A minor role, but you know the ins and outs of both and wouldn't have to put that much more time into it and both entities benefit.

GOOD LUCK.

PS: One nice thing about staying CM without scouts in the pack, you will probably more objective about things. Some parents in these positions end up focusing on their own kid, become tunnelvisioned, and then try to run thier own agenda. It's nice to have parents involved, but nicer when the leader doesn't have a vested interest, if you kow what I mean.

gwd,

Just found your Sept. 2006 threads.

If you know someone in your area/town with a specific talent/skill within the high adventure realm, ask them to join your troop committee. Our troop is 95% Catholic scouts sponsored by the VFW. I just asked the Methodist minister to join the committee. He's an avid canoer/kayaker, teaches for ACA and ARC and is a former SM from one of his previous churches. He has excepted. Also have an aquaintance in the Hilton Head area that runs a Sea Kayaking business and another good friend that runs a canoe livry in NW Pa. A few of the parents have boats.

Now I have Pastor Jim for Canoeing MB and Kayaking Cert. My 20 y/o (ASM) is a certified lifeguard and the former SM has some good Whitewater rafting background.

Our COR is an avid backpacker.

My 20y/o and I have the medical side of things tied down being EMT and Medic/Firefighters and hopefully plan on taking the Wilderness EMT Bridge program. Need an extra week and @ $700 though.

Climbing, we have a professional climbing facility in the area we hope to take advantage of this year.

I ask all new leaders to the troop to at least sit for the safety programs offered up at summercamp, Safe Swim, Saftey Afloat, Climb on

Safety, etc. That way at least everyone is certified. If they are interested in a particular subject after that, then I suggest additional private classes and training.

Spread the trainig around and surround yourself with trained people. You the SM shouldn't have to be an expert in every area. That is why we have ASM's and Committee Members. Delegate. Let one of them plan a trip around one of their strong points. Just make sure they know what they are doing. Ask for a resume of sorts, that you can go back and check out to make sure they really did take a climbing course and what the instructors take was one this person. Make copies and keep on file any certification cards that they may have. That way if a parent comes asking about qualifications, you can pull out the appropriate copy and let them see it.

gwd,

If you willing to come a little father north, southwestern Pa., there are a couple of sites that put on good scout oriented programs.

One is the Laurel Caverns near OhioPyle Pa. They offer a year round Climbing MB program that is run down in the cave. Totally underground. You camp in the cave also. I think it is out on by the Laurel Cavern staff. I'll have to check.

While you're there, the second would be worth checking into, depending on how much time you have for the trip. Check out Wilderness Outfitters. They offer Climbing, Whitewater MB's and I think BSA Kayaking Certification. They also run rafting and canoe trips on the Yough. River.

Plan a week and spelunk and get your Climbing MB on days one and two, Gat your Whitewater MB on days three thru five and finish it off with one heck of a rafting trip. You probably will need to fundraise a little. This might be an idea for their plan for next year.

Crew21,

Which pond are you across?

Crew21,

Come on over. Being out of Council, and overseas, it's going to cost you Out-of-Council rates. $180/210 ($140/$180 for early bird) was for primitive camping doing your own cooking. Over the years, we've only had three other troops in outpost with us during summercamp. Usually it is all ours, and it's in the woods, SHADED, unlike the rest of camp. A bit of a hike into main camp though.

Dan, I'm not sure what the scouts all get for their $150. I like your thought on the SM going out to camp sometime during the week to how their scouts have matured. I might toss that out at the orientation meeting coming up next month.

What replacement gear are you talking about?

SWS,

You can keep Billie boy all to your self. I have no use for him.

I don't want to be accused of bending any rules, that is why I asked if "dawn to dusk" is Nationals definition. I only tossed out the idea to see how others felt about the 20 miler. Two 10 milers is fine. With the towpath in our backyard, we can get a 20 miler fairly easy in a long day.

AS for Swimming MB. As posted by others here, if they can't do the strokes correctly, they shouldn't pass. I think some of the survivor skills taught in the MB should be taught back in the rank advancements for TF,SC and FC. The scout might be a very poor swimmer, but that is know reason for him not to be taught self-survival skills in case he/she ever ends up in the water unexpectedly. There is no reason, if someone keeps their smarts about them, to drown.

Lisabob is correct, swimmers are the most fit athletes (other then the Tri-Athletes) of all due to the CV workout they get. That is one reason Track coaches hate them. They're a double edged sword. They come into track season so CV fit, their brain forgets that their legs aren't conditioned for track yet and they injure themselves easily because their body outruns their legs.

Hiking and Cycling only us so many muscles. Swimming, your using everything.

If your in fair shape, you can hike a mile in 15-20 minutes, bike a mile in 5-10 minutes. Ever work the Mile Swim at camp? Most of those guys (adults included) are out there30 30, 60, 90 minutes. Maybe the Mile Swim should be added to the MB requirements to give it a distance component, like the other two. Actually the 500 or 1000 meter would be appropriate. Keep the Miler for the award.

I've been working at trying to put some different style Crews together in our District. A few in the area churches. One idea I had tossed around in my head, at least until Monday was a Shooting Crew. We have a range in town that seems to be doing quite well with new management. We also have a Black Powder Club that has their own outdoor range, as well as another sports club with a rifle and skeet range. I was thinking of approaching the indoor range about how many youth they have involved on teams at their facility, and whether they might be willing to discuss sponsoring a Crew. Now I'm not so sure, at least for now.

SWS,

What is Nationals definition of a "DAY"?, Dawn to dusk? 24 hours?

How about this for the 20 mile hike requirement. Start at 2 PM on Saturday and hike 10 miles. Camp for the night. Sunday morning start at 8AM and finish the last 10 miles by 2 PM. Walla, a 20 mile hike in one day, as stated by the requirements, if you use the 24 hour rule. Nowhere does it state you can't take a rest, albeit a long one at that.

Years ago, in the 70's we did a 21 miler in one day, The Johnnie Appleseed Trail in central Ohio. Since then it has been cut back to 17 miles and now is no longer in existence. If my mind serves me right, I think it took us 8 to 10 hours to complete the hike to get our patch and medal. Also due to someones misinterpretation of the rules (again back in the 70's), our troop pulled off a two day 50 Miler (12-14 hour days). Man, what a #&@#. And then we had to have our own patches made up because we didn't qualify for BSA's patch.

As for the Hiking MB requirements, our Troop is fortunate enough to have two OA Trails in the area, a 13.2 miler and a 26 miler. We also have the Buckeye Trail (1500 miles) run through the area along with the Ohio and Erie Canal Towpath Trail (approx. 100 miles) and two other 10+ milers, all within 30 miles.

The second weekend of May, for JOTT, we're planning to hike the 13 mile trail starting at 2:30 PM on Sat. (6 miles of the trail plus 4 more on side trails) and the rest (with an addition 4 miles) on Sun. morning. This way the boys get the JOTT and the trail patch, as well as the 20 miler for the Hiking M.B in under 24 hours.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

$250 for NYLT? WOW! What are these scout eating for dinner, Fillet Mignon?

Our Council's NYLT is coming up the second week of June at our second camp, not the primary reservation. The problem we have is that NYLT and Camp Staff Week are the same week. So if we have scouts interested in Camp Staff and NYLT, guess what loses out, NYLT. If Camp Staff are present for Training week, all sessions, and for Teardown Week, they get a nice bonus.

That's my problem this year. I have one that is interested in both, but has to chooses. Our Troop is sending one scout to NYLT, the SPL who will be 17. At least he wants to go.

This year, I'm trying the idea of informing the Scouts who are thinking of running for SPL and ASPL, that if elected, NYLT will be a requirement for accepting the position, so to think long and hard before throwing their hats into the race. That's how I got this years SPL to go

As for cost, $150 for the week, with a $50 rebate off the cost of summercamp by Council. Our Council also requires the Scouts to finish a ticket to get the Compass patch. Our Troop will reimburse the Scout the other $100 once he has completed his project/ticket, since he is giving back to the Troop.

$50 off of summercamp and $100 reimbursed after completion of the ticket is how I sell it to the parents. As for the Scouts, it's another week of camping away from your parents and if you complete everything, it doesn't cost you or your family anything.

BTW, summercamp runs from $145 for Outpost,(@ 1 mile out across the lake and dam from main camp) to $280 for out of Council troops in main camp.

anarchist is right. Be careful and know the regulations of the LMA where you are camping.

If so required, you will have to pack it out if in the Back country.

If you are allowed to disperse it:

1) As mentioned before, do it at least 200 feet away from water sources.

2) Also do it 200 feet away from your campsite to prevent attracting unwanted visitors.

3) The same with your trash bags and bear bags

Create a triangle. Camp here at Point A, kitchen and food bear bag at Point B, and disposal site (grey water, cat holes) at Point C. Each at least 200 feet away from each other.

If car camping, it gets easier if we are not lazy. Haul the grey water to a disposal/dump station.

Last year at NOAC, the TOAP site had several great ideas. One of the easiest was to use pantie hose for the strainer. After straining, they went into a plastic Ziploc until needed again. Very lightweight and compatible.

Another idea for grey water disposal was to have a 10 or 20 gallon holding tank built into the troops trailer. When you are finished with cleanup and the water is strained, it's dumped in the tank and disposed of at the parks disposal site.

AS for Beavahs swill drink, Scooby the plate/pot, etc first. Then add a small amount of H2O to the pot or bowl (about a cup or two), swish it around (use your spoon or fork if needed) and drink the soup. Homemade V8. Then all that is needed is a dab of Biodegradable soap and a little H2O for rinse, and your done. Just make enough to eat so there isn't any leftovers. Supplement with trail mix, jerky etc. if your still hungry.

Bon Appetite

There once was an Eagle with the name of Old Grey,

Who liked it when the 13th landed on Friday.

To the forum a special limerick he did send,

With some big words that he managed to blend

And his view he was able to convey.

gwd,

I sit on our Councils Relations and Membership Committee/Religious Awards Committee, committee on Catholic Scouting and the Dioceses Committee on Catholic Scouting. As many of you know from my posts on other threads, I'm very tolerant of all religions.

In our Council, it seems that the Catholics and the Presbyterians make up most of our award recipients. I know the Catholics run religious award classes over a 5-6 month period. I'm not sure how the Presb. do their programs, but they seem to have it together.

As for presentations, the Catholics hold an Awards Mass, this Apr. 22,

at the Diocese cathedral, usually with the bishop. This year we were preempted by a Confirmation, so no bishop. The Boy Scout and Scouter Religious Award recipients and new Catholic Eagle Scouts are presented with their awards and certificates there. The Cub and Webelos Awards are presented on Scout Sunday at their respective parishes.

In May our Council holds a Religious Awards Recognition dinner for all Council Scouts, Scouters and Units of all faiths to be recognized by the Council for awards received. Each individual is given a certificate and their knot then. Our Troop then recognizes the scouts again during the next troop COH.

For other denominational religious awards for Scouts (like the International Catholic Awareness Award) that are not recognized BSA, we've either had these awards presented at Scout Sunday Masses or the Diocese Mass.

david,

Tell the Sm that he should be proud to place any and all ribbons on the Troop flag, but you have to get your Scouts involved in the religious award program first. Not always an easy thing to do. I'm having our 3 crossovers come to the Dioceses Mass as our Troop Color Guard to carry the Troop flag for the opening ceremonies. Hopefully they will get caught up in all the excitement and participate in one of the awards programs in the future.

Everyone knows what the "outing" in scouting means. How about the "Sc"? Service to Church (or Covenant for you DanK), or Sacred Commitment.

Our Council has a simular policy, but for Council/District sponsored events only. Everything else warrents a permit.

Cappie Gonzo,

What is that old adage about keeping your enemies at your side?

>>Not welcome

Scout,

DA here again.

Being a Christian Absolutist, There is right and there is wrong, no middle ground, can you elaborate more on your comment "I respect beliefs that have been around longer than....". If the belief is Pagan in nature, and has been around since Pre-Christian times (a very long time),does this mean you respect that belief? How does this hold with the Right and Wrong philosophy of a Christian Absolutist?

Sorry, had to ask since you opened the door.

rj,

Just stumbled across your thread from last year. Check out Buckeye Council in Ohio. We have a camp honors program, "The Pipestone Program" that just celebrated it's 80th anniversary in 2006. It is a five year honors program where the requirements are set up to lead the scout toward completing his Eagle. Each year the scout/scouter receives a Pipestone to wear on his uniform. Each successive year the Pipestone grows in size until they complete the fifth year.Other Councils have come in the past to see how the program works and can benefit their summercamp programs. Because our Council is the only one in the country/world that offers this program, we have had troops from all over the country and from Europe come to our summercamps to earn their Pipestones.

Councils phone number is (330)580-4272

A lot of good ideas on the posts.

If anyone out there has an insurance policy with Modern Woodman, there is some money to be made if the troop is NFP. Modern Woodman has a program in place, where they will match dollar for dollar up to $3500 (that $7500 if your troop can raise the first $3500), for NFP Org. fundraisers that their policyholders are involved with. They usually want/need a 3 month notice to get the ball rolling.

Maybe some other insurance companies might have the same type of program.

As for the dump tank, see if the scouts can talk some of the local law enforcement, firefighters, politicians or school officials and coaches to take a sit at the tank, then advertise, advertise, advertise.

Our troop has use the 2 and 4 man Timberlines. A couple of years ago some new Timberlines were purchased along with two 8 man tents, can't remember which brand. The nice thing about the larger 8 man tents is they create less of an overall footprint on the land.

One alternative to personal tents is tent hammocks. A couple of our scouts and leaders have switched to Hennessy Hammocks instead of tents. The owners are very involved with scouting and hold several patents on the hammock designs. The hammocks are very lightweight and very compact. They are great for backpacking and very little impact on the enviroment. My son picked one up last year at NOAC. He was suppose to pay $60 for a $120 hammock, but because he help them break down the display, they gave him one for free. SWTSOE (She Who Thinks She Owns Everything) won't sleep in a tent anymore if she can talk him out of his hammock. Check out their websit at www.hennessyhammocks.com.

Ac, Peace be with you and your family. HAPPY EASTER.

PS: Be careful. Just remember that not all little round brown things are Hershey's little Chocolate Eggs.

And I hope it's warmer where you're at. It's 23 and snowing here. The Easter Bunny is redying the eggs white so they will be harder to find in the snow.

Eamonn,

I love your stories. I wish I could express myself as well as you. Have you ever thought of publishing you experiences and stories in a memoir? I think many people would get great pleasure from you. Your stories remind me of Thoreau, Muir and others. Please keep the stories coming.

Hello again young Eagle,

I would really like to here more about Haliburton. I know a little. The idea about going has been a thought for a couple of years. Any good advice you can give would be helpful. SEE! I'M NOT REALLY THAT BAD.

Lisabob, July 12-19 2008 outside of London Ont. is the 8th Great Lakes Jamboree at greatlakesjamboree.net. This looks real interesting.

I'm planning on bringing this up to the boys on Mon.

Scout, most of the groups who you named would fall more into the category of sects, more so then recognized religions.

A clarification on my last post:

I do admire the devout Christians (being one myself, maybe not as devout as others) for their fortitude, especially in toady's world, with toady's morals and ethics. What I abhor is when any religion or a Christian denomination either twist doctrine or are so tunnelvisioned, that there is no other way except their own way, the rest will burn in Hell, and they use racism and prejudism and bigotry against others, even their brethren from different denominations because they don't see eye to eye.

Maybe it would be a better world if us Christians led the way, abolished all the different denominations, and truly started practicing the doctrine of Jesus's real teachings. Why so many denominations? I DONT LIKE THE WAY YOU DO THIS OR THAT. This is why we are the way we are today. So sad.

Yes I believe in Jesus as Son of God. Yes I believe in the doctrine. For those that don't, they'll have to see what happens in the end. If they decide to join us in our believes, good but I'm not going to impose those beliefs on others just because I was raised to believe my way is right.

DA speaking now. What if we were really wrong and one of the others were right. Wouldn't we be in for a real surprise at the end.

I apologize if I offended you on the absolutist statement. I didn't mean that your stance would send us to war. What I was trying to convey is that in the past, narrow-minded people have taken a similar stance and led their people to war because they wouldn't give on something that was really minor or they were fanatical.

As for the western ways, a lot of advances, yes, but also a lot of destruction. Assimulation is not the way. Look at STAR TREK and The BORG. Find and sit with some brothers, possibly talk with some of the Elders about how it was precontact. You might be surprised Two books to read, Seton's "GOSPEL OF THE REDMAN". You can order it through your Councils store, and 1422. Civilizations rise, on occasion destroy the previous one (records and all), future civilizations have no idea what really happen, and thaen think they made things better for everyone, when sometimes they didn't.(This message has been edited by ASM915)(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Scout, my Young Eagle, You mentioned HAMSTERS. By chance is that Al's Friend HARVEY THE WONDER HAMSTER from Canada?

My 20 year old use to be very inflexible in his religious viewpoints until he saw, for better or worse, how extreme several of his fellow youth group members were in their stance and viewpoints. He then realized, yes there is an ultimate right and an ultimate wrong. The right being that we should be striving for brotherly love and peace the world over, and that the wrong is the preaching and teaching of prejudism, inflexible viewpoints and bigotry, which unfortunately many Christian religions/denominations do whether they realize it or not, (ie. Marry thine own kind. Who is thine own kind, Christian, right?.) Now if asked about helping with missions work he politely refuses, reason being, he feels that it is wrong to possibly push his religious views on others like some were pushed on him. If they come asking him, fine, he talks. He is extremely tolerant of others when it comes to their cultures and religions.

Have you figured out who HARVEY is yet?

As I've said before, if the Gov.(and I'm not always a great fan of them) recognizes a religion, it would be nice if the BSA would follow suit. I really don't think the Gov. would ever recognize some of the groups you threw out there and neither should the BSA.

Also be careful with the Absolutist, RIGHT or WRONG only viewpoints are what get us into wars.

Are the European/Western ways really better? I still hate thinking what my Eruo-centric ancestors did to my Native ancestor when they arrived from across the pond.

Stick to your wits and don't feel browbeaten by me. I like playing Devils Advocate when it can open minds. I appreciate and respect your opinions and posts.

Calico, I've got the design for the Pastafarian's Religious Awards Medal, a ribbon with the Chef Boyardee Company colors, the Medal will be a MEATBALL and SPAGHETTI tassels.

OOOOOOOhh, so many worms. I see so many worms , They're coming out of the can.

packsaddle, no attacks planned. Just curious about the young one, might give some incite into where he is coming from. That's all.

As for Haita,if the Haitian Scouting Program has a Religious Awards Program, and offer up an Medal, that is the Haitian Program, with a government recognized religion in Haiti.

Scout, welcome to the ranks of the adults and congrat's on the Eagle.

Scout, The US gov. recognizes and don't discriminate against handicapped with the ADA, they recognize and don't discriminate against people because of ethnicity (or at least shouldn't, natives being the exception). The BSA seems to follow the same lead, correct?. So if the US gov. recognizes a certain religion as a valid religious organization in the US, with privileges and responsibilities that are handed to the other major religious players, and the BSA follows suit on all the other religions, how can they turn their backs on the CoG, since it has been recognized by BIG BROTHER? I don't think BIG BROTHER recognizes DEVIL WORSHIPER's and wouldn't recognize HUMAN SACRAFICIAL RELIGIONS in the US due to the fact of what gets sacrificed, It's against our LAWS, right?

SO since the CoG is a recognizes religious org. by the US, why does the BSA take a euro-centric religious veiwpoint, "OH NO WITCHES" and run the other way? Because of the misconception that Wiccan is Devil Worshipping? Read up young one, they are totally different things

Dan, who was the response geared toward. I was trying to get out the point that CoG and Satanism/Devil Worshipping have nothing to do with eachother even though a lot of misinformed people think that they do, therfore the stigma.

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL MY FRIENDS, PAGAN AND CHRISTIAN.

Scout,

I would like a better idea who you are, age give or take 5 yr's? What region do you live in, south, Bible belt, etc.?

I don't want to come across sounding like I'm chastising anyone.

LH, I agree on the short history lesson. "Founded on Christian values", maybe, were intended, but actions speak louder then words. Once here it was back to the Euro-centric mindset of colonialism, "Let nothing stand in our way". Thus the NA conflicts.

Scout, "witches, or Wiccans, or whatever you wish to call them do not belong in Scouting."

I would have to dangerously assume that you are a religious conservative leaning way to the Right.

Why did you ancestors come to this country? One thing being, RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! CORRECT? What use to be the CHRISTIAN take on other religions, customs, etc. that did not fit in with the doctrine of the time? "THEY ARE PAGANS, THEY ARE HEATHENS!"

Along came the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the Witch Hunts.

First in Europe, then in the U.S., with all (OK, I'll give, MOST of the charges being trumped up.) Why, because they refused to conform to the Judeo-Christian doctrine of the time and convert to the supposed TRUE FAITH.

Dan, you can help out here on the history of things.

Scout, if you haven't read the links that Dan has provided before jumping into the thread, please go back and read them. They are quite well worded, definitely fit with the Scouting program when it comes to outdoor philosophy. CoG is trying to teach their children the way of their religion: It's has been here longer then True Christianity: they are recognized by the US government, this is a country where religion can be freely practice.

Do you have a preconceived ideas that because they, the CoG are Wiccan/Witches, that they are Satan/Devil Worshipers?

As He said, "Love your fellow brother". Let's drop the uneducated bigotry toward eachother.

And by the way, I'm Catholic and I know a little about my religions history and atrocities, How about you?