kjmillig

Without reading what obviously went awry in the middle, back to the OP. I just found out that the troop where I've been the SM since last November is charging about $550 per Scout annually. I about dropped a load when I found out. And the committee is still collecting campsite and activity fees per campout or activities involving a per person fee.

Update:

To clarify a bit, I can speak the language pretty well but reading and writing are minimal. So when we're looking for campsites I'm limited on trying to find suitable camping spots online and such.

I sent an email to the committee and parents about allowing the boys to do some camping without parents and siblings, and the Scouts not inviting non-registered friends to go camping until they've been to Troop meeting and expressed interest in joining.

The CC still liked the idea of allowing a new kid to go camping. She thinks it's a good recruiting tool. This has already happened. We show up at the campsite and the CC's son brought a friend along that I'd never seen before. When I asked if he was planning on joining, she said, "No. He's too busy with school. But he's a friend who really likes camping." I was beside myself.

I tried explaining why we needed to go camping without parents and siblings always tagging along. She said the committee had decided some time ago to allow it, probably when I was out with the broken leg, and again thinks it's a great way to recruit new adults and have extra people around in case of emergencies.

Concerning getting away from established campgrounds, she sounded like she's afraid of it. She had excuse after excuse why we can't do it. "Near a beach, maybe the Coast Guard will not allow us to stay overnight, and we can't dig a hole for a latrine." "In the mountains we can't camp on private land or dig holes." "It's very difficult to find some land where the owner will let us camp." "Such-and-such a place is very hard to find a place to park cars." ...ad nauseam.

I'm trying to have patience, but it's growing thin. If I can't start to see a glimmer of change by the end of the year I may move on and let them continue to enjoy a Mom-run troop of family campers.

WARNING: RANT AHEAD

So our troop has a fairly strong willed, although not boisterous or pushy, Committee Chair. She's a Scout parent of our oldest Scout, until recently was an ASM, and has just taken over as CC. Problem is that she thinks she has all the answers and over-guides the troop's Scout leaders who quietly obey since she's the "Mom" and is the main organizer of our small, very new troop that started as an unofficial patrol of Lone Scouts loosely attached to a large troop in another city. I was participating only through emails that first Lone Scout year due to health issues and as we neared time to charter our own troop I was asked to be SM. I agreed, but since then seem to be mostly there just so they can have 2 deep leadership and to have SM Conferences. Most of my suggestions for doing some back-to-basics camping to strengthen Scouting skills is met with polite but firm disinterest by the CC who proceeds to encourage the boys to always camp at well lit organized campsites with electricity, running water, and showers. Again, the obedient children follow the "Troop Mom", and the "Mom Committee".

Yes, I know I should put my foot down, but since I'm at a disadvantage with language barriers (we're not in the USA) I'm often at the mercy of the committee and the CC.

​I've considered washing my hands of it and stepping down as SM, but the Scouts really need some guidance to learn how to truly run their troop, be creative on activity planning, and get out of the glamping mentality.

Suggestions, please, from those who might have had similar situations.

Been away for a bit during the summer.

I originally posted this question after a SM Conference. The rank requirements for 2nd and 1st Class state: Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Discuss four specific examples (different from those used for Tenderfoot requirement 13 and Second Class requirement 11) of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life.

As part of the conference I generally select a few points of the Scout Law and Oath for discussion, and upon asking about how he feels he demonstrates his Duty to God, he just said he believes nothing.

Since then I've given a couple of SM Minutes about having some sort of belief system, even if it's within one's self. That seems to sink in with them.

More than half of the Scouts in my very small, very new troop do not claim any religious beliefs at all, nor agnostic or atheist. Simply nothing. Most of their parents are semi-practicing Taoist/Buddhist. Since the family does hold a belief in deity, what's a good way to address this with the Scouts in upholding their "duty to god" as stated in the Scout Oath? I'm a Christian, and this is the first time I've worked with Scouts that are not, although I do have some knowledge of Taoist beliefs.

I found out. Since we are in the Far East Council, he's the Boys Life bulk recipient.

Is the Eagle COH an OA event or are you officially representing OA at it? If not, then don't wear the OA sash.

Yes, Scouting should be fun at appropriate times, and serious at appropriate times. Even before being in the military, I always tried to wear my Scout uniform correctly as a youth, including the old knee socks with garters and flashes. Spoof patches are fun and maybe could be worn temporarily in the appropriate surroundings, but not long term.

To me it's an integrity issue. If you agree to the Scout Oath and Law, then you should be agreeing to wear the uniform of the organization correctly. A scout is trustworthy, loyal, ...obedient. If you don't care about wearing it correctly, then what other parts of the Scouting rules are you willing to regularly ignore?

What is BU? It shows up for one individual on our member list.

Approved for Scouters, p 61 of the Guide to Awards and Insignia.

Parents should be involved in a boy's Scouting advancement. What matters more to me is the personal initiative of the Scout and how much he really worked to earn the award as opposed to the Scout who is pushed through to be an Eagle in the shortest possible time limit. An immature 13 year old Eagle with 35 merit badges doesn't hold much weight in my book.

If parents "butt out" completely is sends a message that the parents couldn't care one way or the other about the boy advancing.

We plan to wear it over the collar.

1. A Committee Chairman who conducted a Scout's Eagle project for him while the Scout went to a school band function, then signed off on everything. The Council never knew because the whole committee went along and thought it was fine.

2. A SM who wanted to sue a ASM to recover summer camp scholarship fees who, for distance and religeous reasons, moved himself and his 2 sons to another troop.

The boys had no problem with it at all. They seemed to like the idea of the usefulness and uniqueness.

Parents should be involved in a boy's Scouting advancement. What matters more to me is the personal initiative of the Scout and how much he really worked to earn the award as opposed to the Scout who is pushed through to be an Eagle in the shortest possible time limit. An immature 13 year old Eagle with 35 merit badges doesn't hold much weight in my book.

YAY! In our 1st Committee meeting for our new troop we began a discussion about neckerchiefs and getting them made locally since we are in the Far East Council. I suggested the square cotton necker and my reasons for it. My ASM agreed wholeheartedly. The committee went right along!

From a usefulness and distinction point of view I'd like to see my newly formed troop opt for an "old school" square neckerchief instead of the flimsy decorative ones most troops wear. Does anyone here wear one? Does your troop wear them? How might I convince the boys it's a good idea? Ultimately it's up to them, of course.

. . . Did you try looking at the photos or reading the item descriptions?

 

Which shirt has the vented yolk? http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia/mens/shirts/men-s-polyester-microfiber-short-sleeve-shirt.html AND http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia/mens/shirts/men-s-polyester-microfiber-long-sleeve-shirt.html

Which has the seemingly useless tabs on the end of a short sleeve shirt? I've never seen a short-sleeve shirt matching this description, maybe you just saw a long-sleeve shirt with the sleeves button into the short position.

Which long sleeve shirt has buttoned tabs when rolling up the sleeves? http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia/mens/shirts/centennial-boy-scouttm-male-leader-long-sleeve-cotton-rich-poplin-uniform-shirt.html

The short sleeved shirts I saw were indeed short sleeved shirts and had a seemingly useless buttoned tab hanging off the ends of the sleeves. I saw it on only 2 boys so I'm wondering if they were unofficial shirts.

No, not a collector per se, except for what I've gathered through my own experiences over the years. Just wanting to know which uniform I'm looking at.

I know they're all still valid for wear. What I'm asking is how to identify each one. I don't have access to a Scout Shop and will have to order everything online.

Which shirt has the vented yolk? Which has the seemingly useless tabs on the end of a short sleeve shirt? Which long sleeve shirt has buttoned tabs when rolling up the sleeves?

I still wear my pre-centenial shirt and pants made of cotton-poplin blend. I've been wanting to get a newer set but I'm not sure which one is which. I see some boys wearing a shirt with what looks like a vented yolk across the back. Others with a short sleeve shirt with a buttoned tab hanging off the end of the sleeve.

What am I looking at? I can't find pics online of the backs of BSA shirts or other details other than like what's posted on the scoutstuff website.

Saying "Made in China" can be deceiving. Taiwan is officially the Republic of China and labels much of of it's small factory and cottage industry stuff with those little gold stickers. Taiwan is also currently the largest producer of laptop computers and bicycle frames, among other things. To think that every small item made in China is from sweat shops or child labor is also very erroneous.

Perhaps I wasn't completely clear. I'm certainly not trying to force my camping style on the boys. I was simply asking for experiences of adult Scouters camping styles, and what influence it may have had on the boys.

By "city boys" I mean that all of them have grown up in large urban environments in upper-middle class/fairly wealthy families. Most have been involved in Scouts for less than a year. Their outdoors experience so far has been going on well organized trips with another, fairly large troop of boys with similar backgrounds, which usually plans expensive outings with lots of travel.

I'm no newb to Scouting and I've seen my share of differing types of gear and boys from all socioeconomic backgrounds and how they/we make it work.

I've mostly made up my mind now that I'll be going with modern versions of primitive gear and camping by example to show the boys another alternative. If they still want to pile 4-5 boys into a huge dome and cook on a big camp stove, that's fine. BTW, the other adult leader that goes on almost all campouts also uses modern backpacking gear.

This might seem an odd topic for some. I'm in need of some new camping gear. I've always camped using modern gear during my many years in BSA, but I've also camped more primitively while doing living history events. I'd like to have a positive camping influence on the boys I'm involved with who are all city boys currently transitioning from a Lone Scout pseudo-patrol into an official troop. I'm weighing the options to go with modern gear or semi-primitive gear, i.e. tomahawk, tarp, cook kettle, large tin cup, wool blanket, knife, haversack/knapsack, etc.

Anyone else gone the primitive route on a regular basis? I've had some Scouting friends in the past who were also living history types who have done it with a select number of boys in their troops.

Opinions, experiences?

I'm getting involved with a new troop forming from a group of Lone Scouts. I'm no newbie to Scouting. I've been watching this groups activities for several months while I've been out of the loop physically due to medical issues, and what I'm seeing is that the average monthly campout/activity is costing each Scout/parents about $40-80. That's per Scout! On top of that are additional miscellaneous costs that come out of a troop budget.

It seems that they've been trained to think that every campout needs to be a mini high adventure outing, often entailing spending a great deal of time traveling.

I'd love to hear suggestions from anyone who has dealt with something similar. How does one convince the boys and committee that great outings can be accomplished closer to home and at lower costs?