Kim near Seattle

My followup: Not sure if it was my call to the council or my e-mail complaint to National (which trickled back to council), but our Scout did receive his needed certificate of insurance coverage. The project is proceeding.

Thank you again to all of you for the reassurance that I wasn't crazy to expect BSA liability to cover the basics of an Eagle project!

We are trying to make sure that our troop members realize that not all Eagle projects require hand tools.

Last fall, a Scout organized a food drive through the local youth soccer leagues. He publicized the drive, then directed teams of Scouts to collect food at 5 different field complexes over two weekends. I think it ended up being a bigger project than he (and his parents) had anticipated...

This summer, one of our Scouts is planning a free mini day camp devoted to science. Should be a great project, if he can get the insurance issues settled (see my thread in Open Discussion).

Another Scout is hoping to organize a tennis tournament for junior high students.

One Scout, part of a patrol that attended Sea Base last year, had hoped to organize a lake clean up using SCUBA divers, but liability issues killed the idea.

We've also had our share of bat box, shoreline restoration, playfield upgrade, and science trail projects.

Just to clarify---my council (and by the way, it's not necessarily evident from my user name...) does issue certificates of insurance with others named as additional insured. It's just in this case, the council person has stated that _Eagle projects_ don't qualify.

With the support of posts here, particularly from Beavah (wish I could treat you to a cup of coffee as thanks), I am pushing harder. I will report back with the results.

Thanks, again.

--Kim

I'm a relatively new committee chair, trying to figure out how BSA insurance works. I found an older thread here, but I'm hoping for some current, possibly more complete info.

One of our Scouts wants to put on a series of free science sessions in a local park for his Eagle project. District approves proposal. City says great, will let him use the park (and sign off as beneficiary), but wants proof of insurance and city listed as additional insured.

Scout filled out a form requesting proof of insurance and asking that the city be listed as additional insured. Our council says no, because an Eagle project isn't covered by BSA insurance but by the beneficiary's insurance. City is balking.

I'm having a difficult time understanding how an Eagle project isn't an official Scout activity.

Anyone run into this? Any ideas? Can the Scout's family go independent and purchase their own special event insurance?

In future, do I advise Scouts that they don't necessarily have coverage for their volunteers?

Thanks for any advice.

--Kim

At our recent COH, several Scouts were recognized for completing their second or third 50-milers (they've done backpacking, bicycling, and canoeing). Most weren't interested in receiving a second or third huge, identical patch, but they would like to have a way of marking these subsequent trips.

Does anyone use year bars or some sort of rocker or segment placed below or around the standard patch, to show that the Scout has done more than one 50-miler? If so, where do you buy these? I'm tempted to buy the year bars at my local GS store and hand those out, because I can't find anything more suitable.

Thanks!

--Kim near Seattle

Hmm. I hadn't realized that there were such differences among councils. We are not required to renew our camping training.

I did a weekend-long camping training and found it to be the best GS training I've had. For me, it was not just learning new skills for myself but learning how to teach those skills to 2nd grade girls. And, you have to remember, some of those adults next to you at training have never camped in their lives, have no idea what a drip bag is, and have never conceived of the idea of having the GIRLS do the prep, cooking, clean up, etc. (and thus the need for a kaper chart).

We are required to renew our First Aid and CPR cards every two years, and I wholeheartedly support that. Techniques change; many of us don't (thank goodness) use the more advanced skills, and we benefit from refreshers.

Maybe you can start a petition to allow testing in lieu of repeating the outdoor training?

--Kim near Seattle

I think that many of us GS leaders are so burned out by May, that we are desperate for a couple of months off. In our Boy Scout troop, there are a dozen adults who all pitch in to run the troop; in our Girl Scout troop, there's me and my co-leader. And I am also service unit manager and day camp registrar. We are TIRED. For whatever reason (and I really don't mean to open the can of worms about who volunteers with GS), more parents volunteer with Boy Scouts than with Girl Scouts, at least around here.

Plus, the BS summer camp structure is by troop; the GS structure is by individual.

I will encourage the girls to schedule some summer activities, but I don't want regular meetings. I often wish the boys would cut back on their regular meetings in the summer.

My two cents' worth.

--Kim near Seattle

Consider having an entire arsenal ready to battle boredom and fidgeting. At our camp, the kids often had to wait a few minutes for station staff to get ready, and that's when trouble would brew

If you carry a whole list of games (quiet, rowdy, circle, word, etc.), riddles, jokes, etc., you can try to keep the boys positively occupied while waiting. If they are pretty good at crafts, you might want to bring along lanyard lacing and let them work on a lanyard throughout the day. You could make up bingo cards or scavenger hunt cards to keep them occupied.

Lots of our local camps also use beads as incentives. Reward good behavior with beads that go on the nametag string. Temporary tattoos might be fun--you can buy actual tattoos or use waterbased ink and rubber stamps.

Good luck!

--Kim near Seattle

There is a Packable Backpack at landsend.com. Is that it?

--Kim near Seattle(This message has been edited by Kim near Seattle)

It is fun to see some conversation in the GS forum! Thanks, Anne.

I'm Kim, finishing my 6th year as a troop leader, 4th year as day camp registrar, and 2d year as service unit manager. Troop leader is definitely the most fun! We have 17 Juniors ranging from 3rd through 6th grade. This spring, we have three campouts planned (one is an Outdoor Skills competition), and I just turned in paperwork to go kayaking. We also want to fit in canoeing and horseback riding before school lets out.

I'm also the advancements chair for my son's very active Boy Scout troop.

I spend a lot of time trying to pick out winning ideas from one organization and bring them to the other. Both BSA and GSUSA have some great programs, and some frustrations. I wish there were more places where we "bilinguals" could talk.

Best,

--Kim near Seattle

I have to agree with other posters: you agreed to be leader, and of the few perks of the position is setting meeting times that work for you.

Besides offering other parents the idea of becoming leaders themselves (and setting up their own troops), you can smile sweetly and say, "Oh, I am so sorry that our troop is not a good fit for your daughter. Here is the name and number of the troop organizer/leader of X Troop. Perhaps another troop would be a better fit." Nine times out of ten, the parent will back off.

In addition to using e-mail, you might consider having one parent (or girl, if your Scouts are old enough) be the phone person who passes on info for those who can''t/refuse to use e-mail. It''s annoying and creates extra work for the rest of us, but there are people who just won''t use e-mail.

Good luck!

--Kim near Seattle

service unit manager

troop leader

Local culture can definitely be a challenge, whether for men trying to volunteer in GS or women wanting to do BSA outings.

But, any men who are interested in volunteering in Girl Scouts and willing to push a little harder to make that happen, please go beyond the local troop leaders and try to contact someone at council. You might have to be persistent, but you could do some real, long-lasting good.

And, if you happen to be in the area northeast of Seattle, contact me. I'll eagerly welcome you!

(Lisabob, thanks for the apology, which wasn't needed.)

--Kim near Seattle

I am a Girl Scout leader, Service Unit Manager, and day camp registrar. I'm also the Advancement Chair for a Boy Scout troop. So, I get to see the positives and minuses of each program, and in my opinion, both programs have their strengths and weaknesses.

I know that there are many girls who are frustrated by the lack of outdoor activities in GS. (Of course, many craft-loving girls would quit a camping troop, so you win/lose whichever route you take.)

Very few dads volunteer with their daughters, and relatively few moms have the background or interest in doing the outdoors stuff. So who exactly is supposed to take these girls camping? Why aren't the BSA dads volunteering to be outdoor specialists for their daughters' troops?

It's easy to say, "oh, GSUSA discourages dads." But somehow, when I ask men how exactly they are discouraged from joining, I don't get very specific answers. (In my area, there are male leaders, and there are even dad/daughter troops, which are all lauded but still rare.) We are desperate for volunteers at our day camps, and we would LOVE to have dads volunteer. The Cub day camps have half men, half women as volunteers. The GS have 75 women and 2 men. What--dads won't take vacation days for their girls, only for their boys?

There are GS leaders out there who are trying to do outdoors stuff, not all of them, but some. But it would sure be nice if the families who are complaining would contribute instead of criticize and help give their sons AND their daughters some time and energy.

--Kim near Seattle

A couple of councils offer Council's Own patches or Try-its for Brownies who help with Daisies. My girls earned this one:

http://www.sagirlscouts.org/Images/gssa/Forms/Resource%20Center/Patch%20Programs/BrownieGirlScoutAideTryIt.pdf

--Kim near Seattle

Our (outgoing but longtime) advancement chair told me that the boys aren't supposed to wear their sashes until they have at least 5 merit badges sewn on them. I can't find this confirmed anywhere. Can you point me to the rules, if indeed this is true?

Thanks!

--Kim near Seattle

I am active on both sides of the fence, and I have a tendency to compare and contrast too much. I see good and room for improvement in both organizations.

I do think that GSUSA is less open to family participation (though I hear that this policy is officially changing), but I've believed that that was intentional in order to provide girls an opportunity to develop independence. Too many parents tend to be especially protective of their little girls--unwilling to let them use knives (even paring knives!), or to camp out in the woods, or even to do a craft project less than perfectly. I fight off more overprotective moms in GS troops than in C/BS units. And I have to work hard to encourage some of the girls to try new or dirty or outdoors activities.

Also, there is the issue of the boys getting to do more exciting things than the girls. As others have stated, the girls tend to be limited by what their one or two leaders feel comfortable offering (versus a BS troop with a whole committee of adults offering skills and ideas). I don't have the experience or knowledge to take my girls on some of the great outings that my son's troop does (though I'm learning!). None of the dads or moms in my troop have accepted the invitation to help us do those sort of activities.

I don't know why so many dads who support their sons won't also support their daughters. I know that some GS councils aren't welcoming of fathers, but my council is pretty open. (In fact, one Seattle troop has existed for decades as a father/daughter troop.) So why do I see only 2 dads (out of 80 volunteers total) volunteering at GS day camp, but I see a pretty even split between male and female adult volunteers at CS day camp?

My meanderings....

--Kim near Seattle

Am I reading this right? Girls are now "required" to wear the uniform piece (sash, vest, etc.) while participating in ceremonies, etc.? That's a significant change. I like it, but I'm surprised to see it.

--Kim near Seattle

For Girl Scout info, I rely on AllGirlScouts@yahoogroups.com. I too have wondered why so few Girl Scout leaders post here.

--Kim near Seattle

Junior GS leader

SUM

BSA parent volunteer

Thank you, gwd-scouter. Allowing the activities on two different trips makes the badge a lot easier than I had originally thought.

--Kim near Seattle

And I come out of lurking to ask,

Those two additional activities (biking, rafting, etc.)--must they be on the same camping trip? That's how I initially read the requirement, and I figured that that was one intense trip. But what other posts suggest that a Scout could do the biking on one campout, and the rafting on another. (Or, presumably, both at the week of allowed summer camp?)

--Kim near Seattle