Wëlënakwsu

No idea what the BSA system allows.... but where do you want to be registered?  I'd  pursue that District.

There may not be much practical difference to your District affiliation.  DE support could vary between Districts, but often there is little difference between Districts.  For training, events, etc... most Districts welcome participation from other Districts' Units.

I'm in an area where 3 States and 5 Councils are close to each other.  Not too long ago when I was a District Commissioner we had a Unit who was registered in Council A, CO was in Council B, usual meeting place was in Council C and they occasionally had meetings in Council D. I vaguely recall they were registered in Council A because many (30-40?) years prior their CO and meeting place were in A.  

 

He could consider joining the Troop of an OA friend. How active he will be is another matter.  
In my long ago OA days a number of older Scours did that for the same or similar reasons as your son.

Side comment: my biased opinion is that my Lodge was at its best when it was akin to a fraternity of older Scouts in Troops and under 21 summer camp staff who were unattached to Units but members of a Unit the Council created solely to register them in the BSA.

Ditto what others have said. If these gifts are for individuals... a basic pocket (aka Swiss Army) knife or another lightweight simple camping gear gift.

The multi-tool hatchet is usually worthless for chopping and possibly dangerous due to poor grips.  Note the MultiTac dangerously exposes the user's lower arm to the hatchet blade when using the knife.  And... I pound tents pegs with a rock before carrying the weight of a multi-tool hammer.

Whatever you get... avoid knife blades over 3"... many Units, Camps, Municipalities, etc have rules about long blades.

 

 

The Troop is part of the CO... not overstepping

1) I think the organizational email is a good idea.  It adds 'authority' to the sender's messages and probably backed up in the CO server if subsequent review ever required.

2) Uncommon, but not unheard of.  My former Church CO started this in the 1980's.  Hopefully good practices will prevail like giving the Troop Treasurer petty cash and dues that Scouts pay stay with their own unit.

3)  Approval of leaders is a prime responsibility of the CO.  I'd encourage the CO to solicit the thoughts of the Committee Chair and other leaders about a SM to strengthen the Troop volunteers "buy in" and support of the SM.

4) I read this as meaning the current COR's 'term' is ending.  Whoever is the Chartered Organization's representative / liaison / decision maker for Scouts should be registered as the COR. 

Change is upsetting especially after operating with minimal oversight.  If executed well these changes could be for the better...   I've observed that Units with a strong connection to the CO are those most likely to pass the test of time and thrive.

I’m confused…  Is following what transpired? 

• Catholic Diocese will not charter BSA Units and thus the Troop is defunct or about to be.

• Catholic Parish agreed to transfer of equipment, materials, funds, Unit number, etc to a new CO.

• Catholic Troop "lame duck" Committee members obtained agreement from a Lutheran Church to charter a new additional Scouts BSA unit.

• Catholic Parish "lame duck" COR pursued a Council Charter for a new Troop meeting on the basis of a Facility Use Agreement (FUA). (To clarify, would the Council chartered Troop meet at the Catholic or Lutheran Church?)

It seems the Catholic Executive Officer (EO) has to decide if a Council Charted Troop can meet at their Facility.  If so, I assume Troop assets are then transferred to the Council. If not, then the option of a Lutheran Parish chartering an additional Scouts BSA unit is now between the Council and Lutheran EO. 

If the Troop Committee disagrees with the "lame duck" Catholic COR, the "lame duck" Troop Committee Chair could meet with the Catholic EO and discuss the options. 

PS:  Whether the Catholic or Lutheran Parish being a better meeting place depends on location, space availability, meeting time, preference of SM & Assistants, etcetera of which Forum readers know nothing.

Yes... Wolf book would be the circa 1969 printing. 

I looked at the photos again... 

Where I thought there was rank insignia: I do not see a pocket flap which should be above any rank patch. Thus not reasonably sure what it could be.

In the one with your Mom there is a spot that could be a Bobcat pin OR a shiny button.

 

I love a good puzzle.  If it helps…

Back then the earliest you could have joined the Cubs was your 8^th birthday (Feb 1969) or the start of 3^rd grade in 1969.

Source:  https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth331783/m1/15/?q=cub scouts

The photos were taken on different dates and to my eye the boy (you) in the photo with his Den Mother (your Mom) looks younger than the boys in the other two photos.  There is no rank patch in the photo with your Mom, which would indicate the picture was taken soon after you joined the Cub Scouts

Assuming 5/1972 is the printing date; perhaps the photo was printed later then actually taken?

The only indication of rank is the 2^nd photo which includes the top corner of a rank insignia.  At a minimum it’s Wolf, but a second diamond would have to be visible to confirm Bear. 

1967-1971 source:    https://www.sageventure.com/history/cub/diamonds.html

It's been a few years, but I can advise in my Council when an adult’s membership was revoked… in addition to a prorated membership fee refund, the Scouter received information on appealing to the Region.  The decision was usually made at a Council level rather then National and preferably after consultation with the Chartered Organization Institutional Head. It is not a District (ie DE, et al) function.   Anecdotally... after appeal; membership was rarely, if ever, reinstated.

I assume it's  likely there is more to the story then only “accidentally violated" the rule.

There is no prohibition on long term camping on your own.  It would sure give your PLC something of consequence to plan!

Caveat...  in many States and Counties (including mine) the Health Department regulations for over X number of youth camping over over X number days or nights is prohibitively difficult for almost all Troops to comply with.

 

Another option...  Keep the packs and loan to any new Scouts.  Loaning a pack for the 1st or 2nd trips is a big help for the youth/family uncertain about Scouting and thus hesitant to spend too much initially.  Who wants to buy a tuba if your child does not stay in the band!

I found that most 'lower income' Scouts got their own pack if they stayed in Scouts after the 1st or 2nd trip, and if there is a problem and if you get more gear...  yes distribute discretely.

We also had loaner sleeping bags, but that option comes with the potential cleaning hassles!

 

18 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

One of our guys just finished National Camp School at Ten Mile River.  He said they announced they will be selling approximately 8,000 acres (of 12,000) .  No price mentioned...

Will be sold to State of New York??

Anyone got words on this??

For years most of the land and camp facilities have been unused as membership and summer camp attendence dwindle,  The Greater New York Councils negotiating with The Conservation Fund to preserve the land.  Status as of last month...  https://www.conservationfund.org/impact/press-releases/2678-effort-launched-to-conserve-historic-new-york-scout-camp

Happy to know the goal is to preserve it in a natural state

Accounting nuance:  "Form 990, Schedule G, Part II... is only the non-deductible portion of each ticket (the cost of food, clay pigeons, etc) and does not include any of the Contribution revenue, which is reported with other Contribution revenue on Part VIII"  

Source is one of the clearest explanations I found: https://www.grfcpa.com/2018/09/compliance-best-practices-for-reporting-fundraising-events-on-the-form-990/

 

 

More info...

https://www.scout.org/Ongoing-Scouts-Emergency-Response-in-Ukraine

https://www.scout.org/WOSM-statement-Ukraine

https://ukrscout.org/

1970 or '71, we named our summer camp provisional patrol "The Ukrainians"... I have  no memory of why.  At the time in our area we still had a few Scouts in exile groups; Latvians, Hungarians, etc.  My words are inadequate, I - like many - assumed those days of Europe's wars were over... I dearly hope this war does not 'spread'.

 

 

My quick internet Docket search identify Brown & Bigelow as a Contract Counterparty as early as April, 2020 (maybe earlier).  Found one reference listing the Artwork Agreement as an Executory Contract in a November 2021 Filing.  My guess...  BSA and B&B have known for awhile about the Agreement which covers what might be the few things ,besides camps, the BSA could sell and not effect program.  If disclosed... it'll be interesting to learn the Agreement terms, what the disagreement is and how much money potentially involved.   

 

 

I and most parents would be ‘offended’  and not sign the proposed liability waiver or release that includes “abuse and molestation”.  Stick with the BSA Consent Form or similar.  (My understanding is that waivers provide little protection, especially if negligence is involved.)

Besides the lack of confirmed liability protection from the BSA or Church…  The parents probably believe the Pack and Troop are under the auspices of the Church.  The Pastor has only agreed to on-campus events and thus I believe it prudent and in the interest of all to not have any off-campus events until registration status is resolved or definitive authorization from Church or BSA received.  Unfortunately the adult side of things will hold the Scouts back if charter and registration is delayed further.

Regarding the facility use standoff…  the following is almost a year old, but may be of interest: https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/12728/documents/2021/2/Boy Scouts Memo Agreement.pdf

Give the Cub her/his award(s) on Tuesday.  It's too late to do otherwise.  Then get your records in order... unless their are extenuating circumstance:  Give non payers a reminder after a set time and if no payment thereafter... "cut them off/out" after an established time period.  I wouldn't worry too much... perhaps this family's payment due records are as 'screwy' as the Packs.

I’ve held Council, District and Unit volunteer positions in an urban Council of relatively small geographic size.  If I was the guy in charge… I would eliminate District Executives.  Never made sense to me to have a revolving entry level person as the point of contact for Units, donors, potential CO’s, etc.  Examples:  In my District during the last 35 years, I recall only one new traditional unit that a DE started that lasted longer than 1 to 3 years.  School ‘talks’ typically not productive.  Fund raising by a DE… not worth the time for dollars received.    

In lieu of DE, I would have an experienced Council professional(s) in charge of ‘sales’, ie deal with Institutional Heads to start new Units and work with capable District volunteer to save the troubled ones.  An office-based Customer Service staff to handle Unit administrative issues like  registration, Eagle application, etc.  And of course...  the fund raiser concentrating on businesses and foundations

To free up staff time I would …  Eliminate District Committees such as membership, camping and advancement (except the Eagle Board representative) because they require staff support and accomplish little.  Remaining Committees members and Commissioners consolidated where possible and meet 3 to 6 times a year, not monthly.  Fewer and better Round-tables (aka training opportunities).   Fewer meetings amongst the the professionals in the office... My Council staff has spent an inordinate amount of time in “meetings”...  I can’t imagine what’s new or different every week.

I worked for two companies thru Chapter 11 and in both cases, it made management decide… what is really important to accomplish the ‘mission’ with the budget available.  All those extraneous duties, meetings, reports and expenditures when times were good…  no more.   (And salary cuts for the higher paid executives)

I hope the BSA and Councils take this time to reorganize well

Packs do not have to accept any one who volunteers to be a leader, even if they are a parent or district staff.

None of our business, but if someone gave a report to a DE and was not satisfied with result and my opinion was sought... I would suggest reporting to Chartered Organization. 

 

My basic formula:

• Subtract month's Roundtable and replace with Recognition Event
• Add food and drink.
• Add host to welcome and introduce new Scouters to others.
• Minimize speeches.
• Maximize socializing and networking.

Separate magazines for boy Dens and Troops and girl Dens and Troop, might be preferable, but alas…  it’s likely the economics of print magazines make it prohibitive. All periodicals are having a tough time and many reducing issue frequency or ceasing print publication.  Recent example is Scouting which is no printed. 

Does anyone know if Boys’ Life was self supporting with subscriptions and ads?  If not and it’s ‘subsidized’ by the BSA… I’m glad it’s not on the Chapter 11 ‘chopping block’!

Side note…  Boys’ Life circulation was about 455,000 for the Cub edition and 360,000 for the Scout (12-17 age) edition.  That’s about 39% - 45% of Cub and Scout membership.

I never liked the Improved Scouting Program (ISP) – particularly berets & belt loops – and it was not an improvement, but I’ve always thought it receives an excessive amount of ‘blame’.

Like other replies:  My memory of my urban Troop in the early 70’s and all the other Troops I knew thru District events, OA Lodge, summer camp staff, etc…  boys elected Patrol Leaders, planned menus and duty rosters, learned first aid, went camping just as often as pre ISP…  in short…  all the Scouting essentials.  ISP meant new patches and don't have to learn semaphore!

From the late 60’s & early 70’s membership in other Scout organizations like Scouts Canada and Girl Scouts of America has also declined. I recall reading that participation in adult organizations like civic, fraternal and service clubs has also declined during the last 40 – 50 years.

The larger societal issues contributed to the BSA decline much more then the ISP.  Explanations such as working parents, after school activities, etc have been discussed ad nausea. As an urban District person in the early 80’s and with no data to support my position… Many parents were not available and not many after school activities, but the top reason(s) for decline:  Fewer Organizations & their Heads’ will support a Unit and extreme difficulty recruiting qualified Unit Leaders.  

Anecdotally in my District it seemed that thru the early/mid 80’s many of those who kept Scouting going were young adult former Scouts who stayed with the Troop, Lodge, etc during college or job and became post college Scouters.  But gradually many more went ‘away’ after high school and lost the Scouting connection.  Is this just me or do other members recall similar circumstances?

I have no idea... Do Scouts that age still like face painting?  If not, Continue bear, lion etc faces but not WebeLoS.    

I suggest separating the Hut, a Troop which folded in 2005 and what is essentially a new Troop founded 2020 in your mind. 

You saved a Scout Hut, but alas it is not being used by a Scout Troop.  The hut was not viable for the new Troop probably because members live too far away.  Whoever controls (lease, ownership, etc) the hut will decide its’ future. Perhaps the hut might be useful to other Girl Scout, Scouts BSA, etc groups. Recognize also that beyond the old Troop’s alumni or charter institution, there may be little interest in memorabilia of a Boy Scout Troop that ended 15 years ago. 

There is a Troop meeting at a church across town that is having problems.  I suspect that in addition to boys’ behavior and motivation, there may be issues with the Troop’s adult leader(s) and Charter Organization.  I have been involved with ScoutReach units and for the most part they worked well and not much different then traditional units’ successes and failures.

If you haven’t…. talk with the new Troop’s Scoutmaster and other leaders about your frustrations. They (adults and boys) need help from an experienced Eagle Scout.    If indeed hopeless and you go from frustration to other negative emotions… that’s not good for you or the boys.

Visit your old Troop a few times, attend a Committee Meeting, go on a camping trip, etc before deciding. Remember the ‘grass is not always greener’.     

In remembrance:  Allison Krause, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Scheuer and William Schroeder (Eagle Scout) who died May 4, 1970 in Kent, Ohio.  William Schroeder was a Scout from Lorain, Ohio: https://www.kent.edu/alumni/news/kent-state%E2%80%99s-may-4-visitors-center-celebrates-life-%E2%80%9Cbill-all-american-boy%E2%80%9D-exhibition

Others inured that day:  Alan Canfora, John Cleary, Thomas Grace, Dean Kahler, Joseph Lewis, Donald Mackenzie, James Russell, Robby Stamps and Douglas Wrentmore. 

And remembering Scouter Bernie Miller who lost a son that day: http://thescoutpatchauction.com/blogsite/2003/12/19/bernie-miller-dies-at-age-84/

In the early 70’s Boy Scout membership was at it’s peak and there are probably more Scout connections to that day such as news reports citing that Scout first aid training was useful that day.

 

I’ve never boon to Ohio, but the early 70’s were formulative years for many baby boomers.   In a box somewhere I still have my peace symbol neckerchief slide …

To clarify... the Troops who do not are typically the smaller and not very good Troops.  Many do not last long.  As s District we do what we can and as many know... it's tough getting them to improve in many areas. I'm happy to report the Troops I've been involved with as an adult have gone -  ranging from one in a wealthy neighborhood to a homeless shelter.