J-dawg168

It's that the job description of a Troop guide?

Yes, I'm a brotherhood arrowman, active on my chapter's ceremony team, and hold a chapter position.

jblake,

I found that very offensive to my troop. We ARE boy led. We ARE one of the most boy led troops around our area. Before you criticize a troop that hard, be educated in their structure and workings.

Also. I stated in my post that he is not open to an older boy patrol. One of our patrols does have some of the older boys in it, and the patrol is COMPLETELY worthless. I do see why he isn't open to.

To the rest of you, thanks for the encouraging words!

Being a sophomore in high school i see this problem all the time.

This may sound rude to some people, but PLEASE do not take any offense to this.

Kids join teams, bands, clubs, or whatever else, and strive to be the best. Only a select few of those get into college for it. Lets take football for example. A kid joins football in junior high, he's second or even first string. His team is good and so is he. Goes to highschool, still on first string, plays well. College time. Colleges want the best of the best. Yes he may be a good player, but more often then not, they aren't good enough to make the cut. Same thing goes for band. BUT!!! Even if they make it into college on a scholarship and play, that DOES NOT mean that is what they will be doing the rest of their life. Recently, there have been many NCAA commercials about athletes going pro in something else other than sports, which is true to about 95% of the people.

Now, lets judge that against scouting.

Kid joins cubs. Has fun going to camps and everything. Gets to Webelos, gets arrow of light, and is crossing over into boy scouting. Crosses over into a good boy led troop. Now, kids make fun of him, discourage him from being a scout, but he perseveres and makes it to first class. He then gets the ability to run for patrol leader, then ASPl, then SPL. Through those times earning merit badges, getting leadership time, doing service projects, yet still made fun of. Still he perseveres on getting to life, then reaching eagle.

What does that have to do with anything? This: Scholarship application, what looks better, football player, or Eagle. Job application, Football or Eagle.

Yes you may learn good things from sports, but being in high school in this day and age. You can pick a scout out from a crowd, you can trust them, you know they are clean minded and bodied. Though scouting is looked down upon by kids outside of it, the kids that are in it can laugh at the others when they go further in life, excel, succeed.

The Question comes to this: What's more important, fun and MAYBE glory; or learning about life, how to take it on, and how to lead people to success.

When i first joined scouting, I had no idea i would be this far along, Philmont, Norther Tier, Jambo, Staffing camp, and SPL. I'm 15 going on 16, just bought a truck, honors classes at school, and will have to get a job to pay for my truck and insurance. My time as SPL is coming to an end, as elections are next week, and new terms starting two weeks later. I wanted to be a JASM, but without knowledge of my future availability, I was quickly shot down by the Scoutmaster. I would like to stay active and give back to the troop, but DO NOT want to go back to a regular patrol. I know I've hit the age of the three W's, wheels, women, and work.

Many things in our troop have changed under my term. We have about 50 - 60 boys, and a very experienced scoutmaster. He is quick to shut things down that have not worked in the past, and likes sticking to TIGHT schedule. Under my term its gotten a TAD bit more laid back and more enjoyable for everyone. Also, I've been a SPL, ASPL, TG, PL, and APL, so I've done just about everything.

My question is: What do you do with the older boys like me that still want to be active in leadership, but have a job where they can't be at everything and don't want to be in a regular patrol?

Also, there are no active venture crews in my area, and the scoutmaster has said NO to a venture patrol.

I have done this before, with success and faluire.

works GREAT with the heavy duty freezer bags!

Not so much with cheapo's

Source,

How in the world is it possible to get your Eagle in 2 1/2 years?

For sleeping bags go with slumberjack.

I have a 30 and 20 degree used for regular camp outs and high adventure. They are farely light, pack down small, and still a little bit roomy for the claustrophobic.

I love them.

I know one of them is called the superguide, can't think of the other. They aren't terribly expensive either.

How old is he?

The average Philmont pack can weight anywhere from 35-70lbs. If its not too long of hike don't worry too much about weight.

Like others have said, big retailers like Bass Pro, REI, Dicks, academy, and others either won't have the knowledge or the selection of QUALITY packs. Look for more local or regional outdoor stores (Backwoods is my fav.) They are operated by people who use the gear they sell. When they fitted a pack to me they had bags of cloth for weight, so when weight is added you can feel the pack and how it sits on your hips.

Ebay is also a great way to get some of the expensive things for cheap!

DO NOT WEAR COTTON!!!! Cotton is heavier than a lot of synthetics and also if wet takes a LONG time to dry out. (fleece socks at norther tier took about 2 minutes in the son)

I have a Mountain Smith pack(technically mine). Kelty is a good brand for kids/teens. Alps, and even Jansport makes a few good packs. I wouldn't recommend an Osprey pack though.. EXPENSIVE stuff.

At a Fall Fellowship there was a class on Regalia making. Its more time consuming, but much cheaper if you make it.

For instance. My team uses black martial arts pants, black martial arts shirts with ribbon sewn on for ribbon shirts, and other accessories such breastplates made from leather strands, beads, and hairpin bone(plastic). The thing that will cost the most is probably headdresses.

That was called the death march.

Yes it sucked. But won't detract from my trip.

There is a Troop the next city over who has over 200 ACTIVE. Something like 25 patrols with over 17 boys per patrol. They do Patrol campouts.

TOO BIG!!!!

Mine is about 65. I like it.

Used to be in one with about 10, hated it.

In about 6 months or so, have a Venture patrol

I currently am a Troop Guide, so i know the drill. My dad also shares the same mindset as me. He was a ASM over new scouts. So that absolutely DID NOT happen!!

Sorry for the confusion, I have only been with my current troop for 3 years. So 3 years ago i went to our Council camp. I am 14, not 19. I have friends in other troops who haven't gone elsewhere, and still say it isn't a good camp.

Hopes this clears it up!

This last year at summer camp, the troop across the road from us had MANY Eagles in their troop. Curious to actually know HOW they obtained it, my friend and I asked one of them. He simply said they were a proud "Eagle Factory". This in my mind means at meetings they work on merit badges, discuss rank advancement, and sign off the boys books. If a boy was in the class on requirement 9, then he gets it signed off, like a checklist.

In my opinion, this is wrong. If you notice on requirements, I will say to SHOW or EXPLAIN or DEMONSTRATE HOW to do something. Its not like cub scouting where you listen to a lecture, then get signed off. When this happens you get Eagles who may have done everything, but when it comes to actual scout skills, they are CLUELESS! I think that an Eagle should be an example scout who knows his scout skills and can rattle off answers and tie knots from memory.

To clear this up, i have nothing against a 14 year old Eagle who actually DID do everything in a boy-lead troop. It seems that the adult-lead troops are the "Eagle Factories" so to say. As long as a boy ACTUALLY did everything required for Eagle, he was my respect, but for the ones who go through a checklist type thing where its all adult motive instead of the boys motive to obtain Eagle, I have little respect for.

What are your views scouters?(This message has been edited by j-dawg168)

Maybe from an adult stand point jambo wasn't worth it. I went in

2005, as did my dad as an ASM for our Jambo troop. IT WAS SO WORTH IT! Most boys only get one chance to go. I was 12 when i went, so will be 17 in 2010. I want to go as long as money isn't a problem. For our council it was $1900 a person. I expect it to be higher this time around.

As for a Cub leader being an SM of a Jambo troop, in my mind, isn't the greatest idea. Not that i'm saying one couldn't do the job, Its just that being a CM is WAY different than an SM, and Jambo ISN'T the place to learn that!!! Jambo is a tough challenge for both youth and adults, and having someone who hasn't had much field experience in the BOYscouting program shouldn't be an SM, regardless of how ever many training courses you have been through. In scouting, experience is the best training there is in my opinion.

Our council has the same issue..... summer camp basically "sucks". My troop has gone out of council for probably 7 years now. We too have gotten some grief over it, along with a few of our own adult leaders trying to push the PLC to go to the council summer camp. But Scouting is supposed to be a boy-lead program, so in my opinion, what the PLC says goes so a certain extent.

I have quit wearing the web belt all together, except for certain occasions when it is necessary. I find that the leather belts(philmont, norther tier, or even a Council belt) works much better, and looks better in my oppinion.

http://www.toothoftimetraders.com/philmont/dept.asp?s_id=0&dept_name=Belts&dept_id=3102

jblake, your post was hard to understand. From what i understand it sounds like your saying its wrong to have a Venture CREW and a troop run by the same people and have the same boys. Yes it is Co-Ed also. There are about 5 girls in the crew. We don't limit membership either. As long as your over 14, and finished the 8th grade, you can join. BUT!!!!! if you were originally in the troop, and then join the crew also(dual membership, which is fine) your first priority is the troop functions. If we didn't do this, all of the older boys would drop the troop, leaving 13y/o's on down as the troop, with no older boys as senior leadership.

There isn't a problem with 13y/o SPLs. I was one at 12 in a previous troop, it is just much more stressful.

Yes i Understand that. What i meant to the crew is that we do have a crew separate from the troop. It has the same adult leaders as the troop, and all the boys in the crew are from our troop. But the rules are, are that if you join the crew while in the troop, troop things come first.

I understand the difference

Speaking as a Troop Guide, it CAN work. But IF you do put an older boy in there the troop guides have to work closer with him to keep him from loosing it with all the hyper little kids.

In my opinion, aged based patrols is a horrible idea. In my patrol, we do mixed ages, along with a NSP. The NSP does a different program at troop meetings and campouts, but goes tot he same place. With mixed aged patrols, everyone knows everyone, guys can learn from the older boys mistakes, and lets face it, most 14 year olds won't listen to another 14 year old their age(speaking from experience in a previous troop, it just doesn't work)

So to answer the question, I would put the boy in a regular patrol, so he does have a few guys his age, but pull him out to do the skills and intructions with the NSP so he gets the knowledge needed

BobWhite - We do have a Venture Crew also. But if we are involved in both, the troop comes first

And Eagledad - I would like a VP because us older guys are often involved in OA, help out with programs, help teach, and later on can't always be there all the time because of high school and other commitments, which would take us away from our existing patrol activities/structure. My other TG and I often help out the adults run programs like belaying when the troop goes rock climbing and such. But pulling us older guys out detracts from the patrol being "one" so to say.

Plus as Bob said, it can keep the older guys more interested then having to stay in a regular patrol with some of the younger guys.

I am currently a Troop Guide in my troop, hoping soon to be an ASPL. My closest friend in the troop is also a TG with me currently. He was an ASPL before this current installation. He will be running for SPL, with an ASPL or TG fall back if not elected. I hope I will get ASPL. We aren't the oldest in the troop (we both are 14, almost 15), but are both some of the most experienced scouts in the troop. (2005 National Jambo, Northern Tier, Philmont, etc...)

If elected, after about 2 months I will have all of my leadership time for Eagle. I plan on obtaining Eagle before next year. Our troop is 20 miles away (there are closer troops, but we like it enough to make the drive.) After Eagle and my ASPL term, I plan on staying active in the troop, but don't have the intent on SPL, or going into a regular patrol. Some of the guys with my mindset were made Junior Assistant Scoutmasters (JASM), after turning 16. They help out where needed and are considered "leadership" along with the SPL and ASPL's.

There once was a time in our troop WAY before I was a scout, when our current Scout Master took office, when we had a Venture patrol of the older seasoned scouts. It about tore the troop apart because they didn't lift a finger to do anything (Which WOULD NOT happen with our current SM). It was done away with, with a lot of the older scouts quitting because of the way our new SM ran the troop. Since then there has been no Venture Patrol.

So my Question is, what are your views of having one of these, and if you agree with me, how should I (along with a few of the older scouts) try to convince the SM to make one?

Justin

T-168

In 2006 I went to Northen Tier in Canada.

Before we hit the border we stopped at a gas station. made sure EVERYONE was in FULL class-A uniform. Made sure everything laying in the floorboard was all in daypacks, or the pockets on the back of the seats. All iPods, CD players, and DVD players were off and had headphones out/off of our ears. Had passports ready to go. Went through smooth at ice cream. Did the same on the way back into the US. We waiting at the gate for a few minutes longer, but no problem at all.