IM_Kathy

we had this happen to a boy a couple of years ago. He even had a fundraising event (pancake breakfast). The boy had a coach, but the coach volunteered before realizing it was all going on during their busy family travel time... and yep it got missed. SO... we called in the our district person that handles our eagle stuff. Seeing as he followed all the rules and it was just an oops of not filling out a form she did agree to have him fill out the form even after it was done.

So basically I would say check with the person from the district that handles your eagle paperwork and boards. Because I'm not sure if this is something that would need a fundraising form for or just a write up in the work book of how funds will be raised and handled (as there is a spot for that as well)

if the scout can't tell me how he did something then he must not have done it well enough to have learned it and does it again. If he can tell me well enough then I'd sign it. The only boys that sign off in books for us are Junior Assistant Scoutmasters - scouts teach, scouts watch, scouts say go do it for "___adult or junior asm_____" While I would love to have patrol leaders or say a 1st class or above sign off, but that isn't the way the troop was when we joined and I can only see more headaches from it than benefits. I don't want a boy getting signed off that really doesn't know his stuff because he's good friends. I don't want a boy not getting signed off because a boy is being a jerk and going above requirements.

Our JASM are 16+, life scout, and sat down with SM or ASM to go over basic rules (same thing we sit in a room for hours for to get that "wonderful" trained strip)

my boy scouts still love this stuff. About every 4 months we do a "first aid challenge". Sometimes it's relay of treating different things. Once we staged a car accident in the church parking lot (no cars damaged in the process just parked like they had hit) Ketchup packets make for good enough blood although the boys got to see real squirting blood when one of our adults passed out and smashed open his head one meeting.

we have patrol award ribbons that are home-made that go on patrol flags just like troop/pack flags and first aid challenge is one of them.

sorry you had a bad experience. Visit multiple troops both meetings and campouts.

You mentioned the adult kept saying it's boy-led, but in what you wrote I didn't actually read any form of leading. There is adult-run, boy-run, and un-lead where they say it's boy-led but none of the boys are doing any leading they're just doing and those are totally different.

Was their a scout or maybe a couple that was instructing the other scouts what to take and put in the trailer? This should be the job of the quartermaster

Was there a scout that was gathering other boys together and assigning tasks and over seeing and helping them out? This would be the SPL for whole troop or PL for just the patorl

Our troop - webelos visiting normally do tent with their parent and depending on the number we might need extra tents for that arrangement. We do this because we do want the parents to see camping as well. If it's a full den that has our den chief they would be either be their own patrol for a campout with their chief and a guide or instructor assisting... or else split evenly among the patrols. They would be given jobs just as an patrol member dishes, assistant cook, etc, but with the patrol leader and assistant (or the chief and a guide/instructor) explaining, quick showing, and then over-seeing them.

The cub parents are with the adult troop members. We will discuss how things are done with the troop: patrols, positions, rank advancement, merit badges, past camp locations, future camp locations, how meeting activities are planned and scheduled out, service projects we do yearly, other service projects we previously have done, and future service projects planned. We answer all questions they have the best we can. We discuss behavior expectations and consequences. But at bed the cubs sleep with their parent.

Now that being said we have had only a couple come and they tented in 1 tent with their parents in another, but prior the boys told them the lights out rule... which is boys go to bed after our evening campfire and snack which is closed with chaplain aid's prayer and taps if we have instrument player (yes even have had it on guitar and even once a phone app LOL), adults have a little adult time by the fire while the boys start to settle, I go to the bathroom, when I return I say "good night boys" and that means it's quiet time. That said that can be harder when you are at a camporee where they put troops closer together and another troop doesn't follow quite time given by hosting group.

Latest we have ever arrived, set-up, and gone to bed was I think 9:30pm arrival with 11pm quiet and those are the long distant trips which normally we don't have a webelos visit on. It has never taken our troop that long to load, unload, set-up that's just insane.

And even with boy-led there is a point where adult leadership has a job in sitting down with youth leaders and doing the "what went good? what would you do differently and how?" and if needed make some suggestions. SPL always rides with me (SM) (plus other boys youth protection is followed) on the way it's "so what is planned and how do you plan on making that happen?" on the way home it's the questions I just mentioned. I like doing it right away so it's all fresh in his mind.

hmmmmmm... just my opinion.... since it's been approved here's what I would suggest:

a sign at the check-in saying something like: Alcohol is provided by golf club house only. If you drink please drink responsibly as Scout youth are around to help with their portion of the fundraiser.

I would also suggest putting a sign by your dining area for those that go to the bar area that just says something like please confine drinking alcohol to the bar area as it is part of the club and not part of the Scout fundraiser.

Just lets them know that it is there but is NOT part of your activity and may help participants keep in mind that there are youth there and help them keep their drinking more under control.

Of course if do that you'd also want to make sure the club is ok with that.

ok so just my opinion... a boy that has been an active scout all the way through the age of 18 and has earned the rank of Eagle should NOT have to go through IOLS training. Yes I can see the classroom part where they learn all the paperwork and rules stuff. But the going camping with a group of adults and work as a patrol and sit through lots of classes that teach things that he learned as a scout as well as has been teaching these things as part of being an older scout should NOT have to go through this.

I have 2 scouts that are ageing out and are soon to be awarded eagle that are wanting to continue working with the troop. Neither of them want to go through the training. One has done the classroom part (happens to be my son and was there to help me with my anxiety in large groups in small rooms) but he still doesn't want to do the outdoor weekend training. With the whole soon to be "must be trained to charter" I can not charter them as ASM once that happens.

I did only option I had for them... take youth protection online training and register as merit badge councilors and yes please come and continue to be involved with the troop and yes you can sign off requirements just as they had been doing as both were JASM for the troop.

But I just think it's silly for them to waste their time and money for the training... plus to take up a space for someone that really does need the training and would rather have a smaller group going through to get more attention for them to really learn.

as a SM I like to promote OA. We hold elections, we try our best to make sure a troop campout is NOT the same weekend as an OA event (but sometimes it does happen). The way I look at it if a boy is eligible, I feel is ready for the Ordeal, and the scout is willing to be put up for a vote then let's have the vote. If the boy is voted in and becomes an arrowman then leave it up to that boy what he does with the lodge. Just the same we do with troop - a boy can be a member of the troop and still decide what parts he wants to be involved with.

Last year we had 4 eligible and all were elected in. This year we will for sure have 2 eligible and possibly a 3rd depending on getting first class before the election.

My son just turned 18. He's still an ordeal member as conflicts in his schedule have kept him from getting to a weekend for brotherhood, but he is hoping to get it with me either on a special brotherhood weekend or at the next fall fellowship (Spring conclave falls right around graduation and he's graduating this year so that is out) And since he got his ordeal before me though he was the alangomat for my group due to my medical issues he'd like to get brotherhood at the same time as me which I think is nice. Anyway, he's not that active with OA due to his schedule, but his dues have been paid every single year since becoming an arrowman.

oh yeah talk to the park rangers about service projects and may get free camp ground use. We have a few places that will do that. We also have a couple places that offer youth group site for free to scout unit; one of which I really like because it has a big area but also has a trail area that goes into a few patrol spots to keep them separated.

We haven't had any issues with the either the policy change or the cooking merit badge.

The 2 boys that are getting finished up are right at 18 (my son passed his board last night and just turned 18 and he actually did earn cooking MB the other scout turns 18 in November)

We have 1 scout finishing up by May as he will be traveling overseas with his family after that and he almost has cooking MB done he turns 18 this coming summer. I have one other scout who has completed cooking MB already and the rest of our scouts have started the merit badge because they know the requirements now and aren't sure what all the changes are going to be. It will take a while to get them all to finish it up as that's a bunch to get through and lots of different camp cooking needed so some times we may have to give favor to an older scout who needs to get it done over a younger scout that has longer to get that cooking done.

Thanks everyone. My son just completed his board last night and the council person said she was turning in the paperwork today. He doesn't want a separate special eagle court of honor he just wants it to be part of a troop court of honor (troop has had both so no big deal) Next COH schedule with the troop is just over a month away so was just curious if he'd be able to do it then. He is working on writing up his portion of the ceremony and only having a couple people come for something special (mentor and eagle pledge) He just let them know that date and that once he knows for sure he's able to do it that night he will let them know. He told me if he doesn't hear in time for doing it that night he'll talk with the PLC to see if they can schedule a troop COH the next month and considering the PLC and his relationship with everyone in the troop I know it won't be an issue, but I know there won't be as many awards to hand out other than his if wait an extra month.

I read lots of things. As someone who went through a troop change with my son it is important that the scout likes the troop more than the adult liking (unless it's a safety issue)

After reading I would suggest when going with a troop on a campout to see how the troop functions that a camporee might not be the best view. Many camporees are way to organized by the hosting troop whether it's merit badges or competitions. Also depending on where it is being held and how the hosts set up where troops set up really affect how a troop operates. The camporees we've been to last while have been so over scheduled by the hosts that adults will do all the cooking so that the boys have some free time. Seriously the schedules barely give them a moment to just relax or get a game of football going with another troop. A regular troop campout you will better see how they operate in my opinion. But since your son's current troop isn't going it would still be good to go especially if he's not been to a camporee. I'm just saying this as a head's up when judging a troop

Just curious how long does it normally take National to get back to the SM on approval of Eagle candidate?

my son used a 3 ring binder. Front was calendar. Next was tracking campouts and positions and such. Then merit badges....

printed out workbook even if he didn't use the workbook for every part of the badge. If didn't use workbook for that part he'd write done on that part. He had a pencil pouch at that part of the binder and would put the blue cards in there. Once completed he'd turn in his blue cards.

in the back is all of his rank and mb cards kept in a ball card sheet. He has the ranks from Tigers all the way up and is waiting to hear on his eagle. Then his mb cards with the completed blue card that he got back behind it all in order of earned.

While I got him the stuff and made suggestions as this was done when from the get-go he made it his own. He's even had to get a new binder once because it got beat up and wasn't closing right. With the 2nd binder he got one that zipped closed so he could put his book in there too

our campouts base price is $20/youth and free for adults. This covers food, campground fee if there is one, and gas bonus for truck pulling the trailer (other drivers don't get gas money) For special events such as skiing, canoeing, and camporees then the event fee or rental fee is covered by all youth and adults. Although we do try to get canoes donated for use, but can't always manage to get enough. Our treasurer keeps a good budget, a couple campouts we will lose money mainly because it's a longer drive so paying for pulling trailer costs more but then we'll have a couple campouts where we make enough to cover those that went over.

For summer camp the boys pay the fee and the troop covers the adults fee.

We have a few fundraisers through the year that help a lot. Plus we have our own scout assistance fund for any active scout needing help to make it on any campout or summer camp.

I have had scouts that breezed through the pull-ups - I was amazed at how many they could do. And then I have a few that go from 0 to 1/2. Two of the boys that are very close to 17-18 year eagles were in the 0 to 1/2 set. And those two still can't do a pull-up. One of them has been a great youth leader, an SPL more than once, a troop guide back when we were age based, and while never an official instructor he has taught numerous skills many times. It would really be sad if this boy didn't get eagle because he never could do a single pull-up!

Our troop likes our summer camp except for the dining hall. They offer a good balance of older and younger scout programs. Lake Front badges, climbing, shooting. They allow a max of 4 badges for the week and have plenty of free time with open areas. They just built it's own welding shop this past year and offered the welding mb as a week long program for older boys and brought in a special instructor for the season for it. Even brought it professionals trained in search and rescue to lead that program. But our troop has a mix between the high adventure lovers and the just hang and have fun boys. So our camp allows this for both.

I would be against a full patrol being required to do the exact same things all week. We don't use age based patrols so while they do have their patrol time each day they also have their own time to do what they prefer to do.

I like what's been said so far. With the list you have of mb you'll be doing I would only add that when I work with a boy on family life I like to talk with them about their family project as a mini-test run of leading a project such as an eagle project. That they are in charge NOT mom, dad, guardian, whoever... that means they pick the project, look at their families abilities, and assign the best job for the person for the project.

While I agree with the don't add to requirements you can still teach them more than is required. There are badges that there are things I know that are above what is required to learn and I will teach that or I will talk about it - they aren't required to demonstrate it or know it ahead of time, but sometimes just adding to the discussions makes it more fun.

While I agree with Kudu's thoughts on physical distance -- I've learned that separating patrols makes it an effort to go "mess" with other patrols solves more discipline issues that anything you can do -- I have come to see that cooking a meal is the essence of a patrol. Every attribute we want to instill in our Scouts is learned, honed and tested while planning, cooking and cleaning up from a meal -- teamwork, cooperation, leadership, courtesy, reverence, delegation, compromise, dealing with adversity and other's shortcomings, not to mention the basic skills involved. We are a cooking troop which means our campouts tend to be more homesteading than trekking. Leave my guys in the woods long enough and they'll have crops in the ground.

 

Getting to that point took years. I could write a book on the things we did to get our Scouts to the point at which they were willing to put al little extra effort into preparing good meals. The hardest part was getting the boys to take some risks and try new things, have some confidence in their own ability and understand that their efforts would pay off in the end -- not a bad life lesson, huh?

 

The first thing I did was to ban both Pop-Tarts and Raman noodles. Yep, dictate top-down from the SM. What I found was that I could encourage several patrols to put the effort in to making a nice meal, but it only took a couple guys walking around munching Pop-Tarts and sneering at the other guys for being chumps to negate the positive gains. Pop-Tarts are the perfect adolescent meal -- easy, require no effort, no team work, they are devoid of any nutritional value, and allow the guys to be seen as bucking the system and getting away with something -- a home run for a 14 year old boy. One of our first cooking programs was a "Iron Chef" weekend during which the troop provided each patrol with an identical larder of food for the weekend (not unlike the way patrol meals are provided for IOLS training.) They were required to use every ingredient and were scored on the creativity and quality among other things. One of the obvious solution was to use the peppers, onions and mushrooms to make an omelet instead of simple scrambled eggs. We were encouraged when, on the next month's campout, several of the patrols brought peppers, onions, sausage, salsa, etc., and started to run with the idea. But the next campout, as all the patrols were working on their breakfasts, a couple guys from the self-appointed "cool kid patrol" walked from campsite to campsite chomping on their Pop-Tarts, bragging about how they slept in, had Pop-Tarts and were already finished with breakfast. The hissing sound was the air being let out of our program.

 

Which is all a long way to make the point that you shouldn't be afraid to step in and establish a baseline for the program. YOU, as Scoutmaster, are responsible for delivering the program. Youth leadership is part of that program, but isn't the tail which wags the dog. Don't get hung up on the idea that you have to wait for the boys to discover the correct path and follow it. ESPECIALLY when trying to fix a broken culture, the unit leaders need to layout the broad strokes of the program then let the Scouts take it from there. It may be necessary for you to reset some of the expectations for the older boys, especially if their current rules of operation are negatively impacting the program for the younger boys.

 

Scouts aren't born with the ability to lead, plan, camp, cook, hike, etc. It takes training. That the older boys have developed poor habits in these areas doesn't mean you are stuck with their poor example. Yes, it will be difficult for them to unlearn those habits and get on with the new program, but they need to. Of course you've got to decide which hills are worth dying on and how far you can push the older Scouts.

 

One of the most beneficial sessions in Wood Badge, I thought, was the one on managing change. My take-away from the session, now almost 10 years ago, was that to manage change you need 1) a clear vision for your end goal, 2) communicate that plan to the group, 3) the fortitude to stick with it, 4) and the willingness to accept some losses along the way. You may lose some of the older Scouts along the away. You've got to decide what are acceptable losses.

 

But most important is having a clear understanding of your goal and staying that course.

 

boys do like to do baggie eggs when we have to bug out quicker if we are traveling a long way (this weekend they are over 6 hour drive away - I'm stuck at home with a banged up hand)

we do allow ramen noodles, but not as just ramen noodles - used to make great backpacking chicken noodle soup or pepperoni pasta.

to be honest we hardly have to say anything. boys know the rules. meeting before campout is patrol meeting: they break into their groups after awards and announcements and do their thing... meal planning, duty roster, pick a patrol activity to do separate from troop activity, pick a song or skit for evening campfire, and go over what requirements they need for rank or mb for PL to use as suggestions at PLC for future activities. we adults just discuss what we'd like to eat and who wants to be cook. campouts run very smooth and are a lot of fun to just go and hang at.

I've never seen then any time before winter recharter - that's when we read over them and plan out the year. I realize that is easier for a troop that is year round than it is for a pack that is based more on the school year.

When my son has moved up a rank and I will therefore be getting my parent pin then I will wear my parent ribbon on my uniform for THAT court of honor. I'm not sure what I will do once he ages out. He should have his eagle done just in the nick of time and I'd love to wear the eagle parent pin for normal meetings, but doubt I'd wear it when heading out for a campout or summer camp.

biggest benefits I got in being a leader and a coach... being a part of child's life and being final say on days/times so will better fit schedules.

another way that I got parents involved just to help out was to have them fill out a sheet of what they can do... it really paid off when we got to webelos

seeing as it has been granted I guess it would depend on his exact limitations. You said he can not put his head underwater so I am assuming it might be due to inner-ear issues... if that is the case and he can swim the distance without his head being under water then I would suggest having him just use the steps into the pool and then swim the required distance keeping his head out of water. If you are looking for something totally out of the water then I would suggest a hike or bike ride and set the distance you think is appropriate.

If this is going to be a forever issue I would start the paperwork now for the 1st class swim test too - I personally have never managed any back stroke or float without having ears in the water (assuming that it is an ear issue)

Why wouldn't the DC count? He does service to the pack/den on an ongoing basis.

 

If the DC doesn't get it, why would anyone else.

 

This idea you propose just doesn't set well with me. Boy Scouts are always working with the packs/dens. Next thing one will wonder if having the Webelos come visit would count as service project hours. Hmmmm, maybe not.

 

I have always used the rule of thumb that focuses on the Eagle project as to who the project can be for. Something other than a BSA entity. I would in fact feel more comfortable doing something for the CO than I would for a pack. My former troop always volunteered to help our with our CO's major fundraiser and helped out with 2 days manning a food booth for them. Kind of a way of saying thanks for their support. Even that was a bit "borderline" because they did a lot to help out the troop.

 

Cleaning up parks rings more true to me than pack support.

 

I guess if I felt it necessary to ask if it is okay, that maybe something in the back of my mind is telling me it might not be appropriate.

 

SM makes the final decision, he/she's in charge of the program and advancement.

When I took over we had a few older scouts that were good with the teaching of skills but the rest were really struggling with it. I sat down with each of them and had a little chat individually and found out what they were comfortable with teaching and what they needed help with to teach. If the SPL ended up getting a scout to teach a skill they were not great with I would talk with that scout and re-teach them so that they could teach it or if they still just couldn't grasp it to be able to teach I would let them know they needed to let the SPL know that. Now that I've worked with the troop for a while I know all the scouts I have that are first class or higher can teach any of the scout skills (granted a few might have to look at their book for a couple of things just to re-fresh their memory but otherwise they are good to go)

I use my own tent rather than the troops tents. I have 3 that depending on tent-mates and the weather I will pick between. The one I take to summer camp would sleep 5 easily on a weekend trip but normally just 2 people and gear just so we are comfy. It does not have a vestibule but I always keep a cheap rag-rug by the door - this one is NOT for backpacking. My other 2 tents I could backpack depending on how many are sleeping with me and sharing the load. 1 could squeeze 4 since there is a vestibule but is best for 3 the other tent will only fit 2. In the winter months I'm usually the only female tenting so I always take my smallest for that, but wish it was a tad smaller so it would be a bit warmer, but I don't want a 4th tent LOL. There is no way I could do a hammock as I have night terrors and my body gets moving around a bit with them - not sure how swinging in a tree would do with those. All of my tents I've gotten on great sales. I think with the 3 of them I may have spent about $100 but that's because the 4/3 man tent was my most expensive on sale for $50. Out of season is a great time to buy so is father's day sales - I keep telling my kids they should just shop for me at father's day rather than mother's day!