GernBlansten

"That is why it is taxpayer money well spent. In addition to armor and equipment needs, it gives them real world skill practice to do their job when they do have to fight. "

In peacetime, I would agree with you. Right now, we have a wonderful training site just yonder of the Euphrates River that can fulfill all the training needs you specified. Real world ones too. Nothing better to practice your skills than to do it on a live patient.

8 million dollars to host a BSA party. HMMMMM...

We have men and women dieing almost daily in Iraq and Afghanistan. Most due to substandard armor and equipment. Don't you see the problem here?

How many uparmored Humvees would 8 million dollars buy? How many lives would it save?

I just think the Pentagon has its priorites a bit out of line.

We are at war people. Isn't it time to make a few sacrifices like forego a Jamboree on the military dime?

Point of reason please...

The Pentagon has much more pressing needs right now. They should not be funding a Jamboree for BSA when our men and women are fighting in foreign lands with substandard armour and equipment. Please. Shouldn't the Pentagon be spending the money on people who really need it?

Kahuna,

So then if everyone knew what GWB was before he was elected, they either believed he was an uniter and were lied to, or they knew he was a divider and he was lieing about being a uniter. Either way, the American public deserves better. Or perhaps they deserve the government they elect.

To me the only reason to support public displays of the 10 commandments (or any other religous symbols) is to push particular religous values on the general public.

Clearly the faithful do not need this reaffirmation of values, they have plenty of other venues to gain that. It is targeted to the unfaithful, to, in another words, rub their noses in it. Do it in your home, your church, on the bumper of your car, but not in my courthouse or state house.

Besides, as said earlier,

Only three of the commandments are part of our legal system. The same three are almost universally shared by every culture in the world. Even the most hedonistic.

Remember when GWB won the election, he ran on being a uniter not a divider. If GWB nominates a moderate to the SC, he will in my mind have satisfied that commitment. However, I judge a man from his actions not his promises. I expect a hard line conservative and a terrible confirmation fight.

What's facinating is this is typically a left/right issue. The justices who typically would be lefties, voted pro-business. The justices who are typically righties, voted for the people. Reversed roles a bit.

Sounds like money was siphoned from United Way to BSA that could have gone to other programs that could have helped these kids. Since BSA didn't deliver, that money was stolen from them.

How about an amendment to require all flags be made of flameproof material like Nomex.

Well, put me down for consistancy.

I think hate crime legistlation is a joke. Do the crime, do the time. No matter your motive.

BTW, hate crime legislation has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

evmori,

I think I can shed some light on the freedom of speech. Consider it "expression" not speech.

People who burn the flag, do so as a protest against America. Its a form of speech or expression. Not a popular expression nor one I would like to see my children doing, but it is protected by the Constitution, and confirmed by the Supreme Court.

Hence the need for the ammendment. The constitution as it stands allows for freedom of expression, no matter how repulsive the majority thinks it is.

I spun this off the flag thread because I thought it deserves its own debate.

This one hit home. In Colorado, a developer is attempting to build a superhighway east of Denver. It will be a private toll highway with railway in the middle. It is proposed to go straight through the BSA Peaceful Valley Scout Ranch. The developer is using old mining statues to condemn the property. So far, he has been shot down by the state, but this case might just give him the push to put the road in.

As Al Czervik in Caddyshack so aptly said, "Golf courses and cemetarys are the biggest waste of land". Just add scout camps to that.

I was in town getting some supplies. A firetruck came screaming by with lights and siren. Big American flag streaming proudly from a staff in the middle of the truck. I thought, hmmmmm, would that be desecration? Should flags decorate our vehicles? Is it OK on a firetruck? How about the redneck with it in the back of his pickup going 85MPH down the highway?

How about the realtor who drives around my neighborhood putting little American flags on every mail box before the 4th of July. Half of those get blown down or trashed.

Or the first year scout doing a flag ceremony and accidently drops the staff. Should he be prosecuted? Would we need to call the authorities to get an opinion?

Sure, I would like to see our flag treated with more respect.

I don't think we need an ammendment to our constitution to do it.

Perhaps just some education.

Just like Bob Dole.

I assume you were fully insured for the loss. What damages are your lawyer going after? Pain and suffering?

Semper,

Yes, it is already illegal to burn the original copy of the constitution as it is a historical artifact. Like burning the Betsy Ross flag. It isn't mine to burn.

But you bring up a good point. Could I burn my own copy of the constitution in protest? Could I burn my copy of a portrait of Ronald Reagen? What national symbols should we protect with this ammendment?

Trevorum,

I am curious if Ford could be off the hook on this one. If you were aware of the recall and problem with the unit and failed to replace it, do you bear any responsibility for the loss? Obviously, your insurance will cover you, but playing devil's advocate, if I was the Ford lawyer, thats the tact I would take.

Good news though on the fire inspector finding the source. Better that than having him find a pan of kerosene under the fuel tank!

Good discussion. I'm really surprised by the all the opinions against the amendment especially on this board.

Our Constitution is a near perfect document, a testiment to the intelligence of our founding fathers. It has stood the test of time and war with few changes. This ammendment just dilutes the sanctity of that document. We don't have a flag burning crisis in the US. Sure some do it, but they reap the attention they sow with it.

Rooster7,

The idea of having diverse troops in BSA is exciting and positive. My point is that perhaps LDS is influencing national policy just from their shear numbers. It may well be not a concerted effort, but how can an organization like BSA ignore the voices of a large segment of its membership?

I accept it as highly probable. Its just the golden rule. He who has the gold, rules!

I think Praire Scouter is on the right path here. But the gay issue lies a bit deeper than just aligning with a general conservative religous agenda. Didn't the LDS church threaten to abandon BSA if they adjusted the gay prohibition policy? In my district, over 50% of the units are LDS units and no I don't live in Utah. That is a pretty significant voice within BSA.

Few 18yr olds are qualified to be adults/parents nor should be given those responsibilities, I certainly wasn't.

But they make pretty good soldiers. Don't think I would have done well in the military had I joined up at 21 or later. I was too set in my ways by 21, questioning everything, especially authority. But at 18, I could have been molded into a fine soldier.

So there's the rub. We need them to protect our nation and put their lives on the line, but deny them a beer or cigarette or the freedom of a drivers license for our own domestic safety.

Here's what happened in the 70s....

http://www.troop97.net/t97hist2.htm#1970s"

The 1970s decade was a dark time for the Boy Scouts of America. The period from 1972-80 was a national disaster, when BSA membership declined nationwide by 34% (a loss of 2.2 million members)! Although many changes in our society had an adverse impact on all youth programs, much of the cause for the drastic BSA membership decline was due to the radically changed Scout program of the period. In 1972, the BSA made sudden and radical changes to the Scouting program, abandoning much of the traditional outdoor program, and applying inner-city programming to ALL of Scouting (what to do if lost?The new Scout handbook's entire "Lost" section showed a boy talking to a policeman with the instructions, "Ask for directions to find the way"). New, "politically-correct" terminology defined the era (the BSA had no "boys" or "Boy Scouts" because "boy" was considered demeaning; no longer an outdoorsman, the Scoutmaster became a "manager of learning" who taught Scouts the 11 "leadership competencies;" he guided Scouts through "personal growth agreement conferences" as they advanced through the various "progress awards.") The BSA began modifying the short-lived "Improved Scouting Program" in 1975, and finally scrapped the program in 1978-79, after only six years of use. The program stands in sharp contrast to Scouting before 1972 or since 1978. During the 1970s, the BSA finally updated its heavy-impact conservation practices to modern low-impact policies designed to protect our rapidly dwindling outdoor resources. BSA membership peaked at 6.5 million in 1972, and reached bottom in 1980 with 4.3 million. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Ok, I deleted my old account and added this one. Let's try again

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