gcnphkr

here are some PDF forms: http://scouts.koenecke.us/

TroopMaster has the capability and has perforated card stock. If your unit uses TroopMaster (and if you a seeing a need to print these cards you likely should) it makes it very simple.

We still use the cards from the supply as well. Printing a one off is not worth the added time. But for summer camp and (ugh) Merit Badge Round-up, printing them is nice.

Here is what the National Shooting Sport Manual has:

Archery must be conducted by trained, qualified on-site range masters who actually direct the operation of the range program and archery instruction. To qualify as an archery range master, the range master must be at least 18 years old and be trainined by a National Camping School-trained shooting sports director or a USA Archery/NFAA instructor. (p. 73)

What constitutes a qualified supervisor for archery for Boy Scouts?

The "Sweet Sixteen" just says: "Every BSA activity should be supervised by a conscientious adult who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children and youth in his or her care. The supervisor should be sufficiently trained, experienced and skilled in the activity to be confident of his/her ability to lead and to teach the necessary skills and to respond effectively in the event of an emergency. Field knowledge of all applicable BSA standards and a commitment to implement and follow BSA policy and procedures are essential parts of the supervisor's qualifications."

Council is saying they need to be certified but cannot tell me what certification they need other than it is provided by the NAA. There are multiple levels of certification that NAA provides.

I've called National and there are going to send me a copy of the pages from the Shooting Sports Manual (which appears to be unavailable). We will see. If this is a real requirement why not put into the G2SS just like the rifle, shotgun and muzzle loading requirements?

My money is on that there in no such requirement for Boy Scouts.

Odd that it doesn't show in MODIS. There is a Willow Fire marked, but MODIS has it located in the middle of the Wallow area.

There was a small one up on the Rim about that distance a week ago but it is out. Based on MODIS there is nothing active in the area.

The bigger challenge would be where to send the campers. Raymond is already taking the campers from Lawton from the closer of Coronado Forest. Fitting another 300 or so from Geronimo would be tough.

Bart,

It seems to me that this is referring to the custom (now often ignored) of not wearing hats indoors.

BD

We went to the same council camp for 5 or 6 years in a row. The older scouts would either not go or be on staff. It got to the point that we could not get adults to go again.

We do three summer camps. One in-state, we now rotate between two council camps and a third camp in another council. We do an out of state camp, generally with a high adventure component. Finally, we do our own, which started as T-2-1 but is now more than that. Of the three the troop run is the most popular.

This is our forth year of doing this.

It started out as just T-2-1 teaching the skills, hiking, etc. I took a laptop so they could watch "A Time to Tell" for some of the campfire topics. They did not get everything signed off, but they got a good start.

Each year the scouts want to go back so we've added merit badges. This year we will rent parts of the council camp (we used group campgrounds in the past). We also added a day to make it 6 nights long. The first year scouts will work on their First Aid MB along with the T-2-1 requirements. They will also do Swimming. We will offer other merit badges including Archery, Rifle, and Shotgun that we would not have been able to without the camp facilities.

Some of the older scouts serve as Troop Guides and Instructors for the week. They also have time to work on merit badges and will take a short overnight backpacking trip into the Sycamore Canyon Wilderness Area. Other older scouts just work on merit badges or hang out as older scouts tend to do.

All this for $150, less than half of the cost of the council camps we attend.

Suggestions:

Keep classes under 50 minutes. Give them time to play, and go exploring the area.

Allow your older scouts to do as much as possible.

You will need to plan your menu for the week, but the scouts should do most, if not all the cooking.

Get some of the women involved with meal planning. The first year my wife made the menu with interesting camp cooking in mind. We still use that basic menu, but the ladies in charge of meals have modified it some. They watch for deals and use coupon items and end up saving lots of money. We also buy our produce from a local wholesaler.

Start traditions. On the way back the first year, the scouts watched "Follow Me, Boys!" in the van. Ever since, they want it as one campfire.

Get plenty of adults involved. The first year there were 3 of us with 19 scouts and we were exhausted. This year we will have 12 with 28 scouts.

Do not camp within a short walk of a lake. They will want to spend every free moment there, and many not so free moments as well. Not a completely bad thing but can become a problem. We now take the 5 mile hike to a lake where they get to spend time fishing or whatever.

We have a snack bar. Instead of cash each person has a punch card with there name on it that they use to by soda, candy, etc. It is generally only open for a little while in the afternoon and then again in the evening. We also buy cases of oranges and apples from the local produce warehouse. These are always available.

Have fun.

Yes. He can still wear his temporary patches.

Start with your father. Talk to him and explain what you want and why. Get him on your side. Get him to stop cooking for you.

Next, you start getting scouts on board and let you father do most of the work with the adults. Both of you work on the SM.

The next campout let the adults know that the scouts will be cooking for themselves and will not be eating with the adults. Let them know that you will also be camping away from them. They are likely not ready for 300 ft. But get as far away as you can. 100 ft is fine, and 50 ft is better than 3 ft.

You don't mention how big the troop is or how many patrols. Based on what you said I'm guessing 15-20 all in one patrol. If this is the case figure out a way to make patrols. Pick teams, draw straws, buddy up then buddy up again. It doesn't matter, just get into groups of 6-8.

For the campout, use your handbooks. Use them for everything. How to pick a campsite, how to set it up, how to cook. Use the recipes that are in it and do what they say. Take a hike, ask the adults to stay behind. Let them know where you are going, how you are getting there and when you will be back.

Finally, unless there is life or limb at risk, do not allow the adults to help. Sell the scouts and the adults that this is your chance to show that you can do it and stick to it. If dinner is ruined, work it out. If the scouts can't roll their sleeping bags or stow their tents have them work on it until they get it. Once one scout works it out have him help a scout that hasn't. When Billy gets sick and pucks in the tent work together and clean it up. Be a team and look out for each other.

Yes, the adults enjoy helping. No, they likely don't enjoy watching their boys struggle and fail. But they will enjoy the victory even more when at the end of the campout you managed without them.

Have fun and good fortune.

I sent him more information and he wrote back that is was good and he would bring it up at the next council training committee meeting.

regarding the goals

The Staff Guide specifically states (2011, p. 22):

"Many NYLT courses have created a process for the participants to take the

teaching from their NYLT experience back home to the unit by encouraging them to

write a simple commitment or statement of goals to take home. This is allowed

but is not required for any participant to graduate or to wear any recognition

for having attended NYLT."

Just heard back from the volunteer in charge. It looks like the goal requirement is based on the Developing a Personal Vision Work Sheet from Day 6. The form is the same with the addition of a place for the scout and the unit leader to sign added to the second page.

He says the 5-Day is made from taking the 2 weekends format and putting it all together. Granted that makes it 6 days and only 4 nights, so I'm still not sure where that helps all that much. Still missing a day. He claims it comes from eliminated down time.

Regarding the patch, he says this is where they were told to have it worn at the area training for the course directors.(This message has been edited by jet526)

hotair36

You are correct about the goals, it is another of my complaints about the local program. The third issue I have is that the program is not the full 6 days. It starts the morning of Day 1 and ends the morning of Day 5 which means a little over a day is cut. So far I have not been able to get an answer on what has been cut.

It was good to see the patches, I was surprised at how many there were. The more scouts that go to NYLT the better. I'd say it was in part the requirement that anyone wanting to be SPL, ASPL or PL at Jamboree had to complete NYLT.

There were a few staff patches.

I do wish more would go to NAYLE.

I sent off a email to the DE in charge of NYLT who promptly sent me off to the volunteer in charge. The volunteer is a fellow Beaver from Woodbadge, so hopefully he will listen.

It isn't a bad idea. It makes them stand out and does promote the program which is a good thing. But they should teach them correctly

I dropped my son off for his summer at camp. While waiting in line to get him all checked in I noticed a large number of scouts with their NYLT participation patch above the right pocket. There was one with in on the right pocket. I asked his dad what was up with the patches. He said that everyone was putting it above the pocket because that is where the NYLT Staff wore it, but that he knew that was incorrect.

At the troop meeting last night the scout that attended last week's NYLT had me sign off on his "goals". He gave me an envelope with his NYLT patch with a letter from the Course Director explaining that the scout should be given the patch when he completes his goals and that he should wear it about the right pocket.

grrrr...

Permutations of this have been going around for years. A few summers ago my son went to NAYLE and was told that the patch goes above the pocket because it is a national event. On that occasion I sent an email to Irving to get clarification and just as the Insignia Guide states that position is reserved for Jamboree.

Now, I don't care about the youth. I am glad they went to NYLT and would never tell them to change it. But COURSE DIRECTORS should know better.

From the FAQ for the form:

Q. What does it mean by ADULTS AUTHORIZED TO TAKE YOUTH TO AND FROM EVENTS?

A. For the majority of our participants, the parents or legal guardians will release and retrieve a youth at the start and end of a Scouting event. This information would be anticipated to change by adding to the parents or legal guardian someone who you authorize to pick up your child early from an event or if you are engaging someone to transport them to and from the Scouting program. It is not a list of specific drivers for a tour. Those are listed on the unit or contingent tour plan, not on an individuals Annual Health and Medical Record.

Parents and legal guardians are encouraged to review this information on a regular basis with Scout leaders to make sure they understand any out-of-the-ordinary requests or unusual circumstances such as who should not pick up a youth.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Resources/MedicalFormFAQs.aspx

I get several requests for information about Boy Scouts each month. I do not know if it is from this or just a Google Search. It could be someone looking to join, drop off a flag to be retired or ask for some help.

I use it then to help the person find a unit that might be closer or an age match. I do wish more would change their information as most just give the council phone number.

About 1/4 of our new scouts found us through our website.

Ohio has a law H.B. 552 that describes how to fold the flag:

http://lsc.state.oh.us/analyses/Analysis125.nsf/All%20Bills%20and%20Resolutions/184AF74C2F249D3385256F8D004DDA36

According to Wikipedia, the method was written and introduced to the Ohio General Assembly by a scout for his Eagle project.

Written by some desk jockey that has likely never heard of a diamond knot, much less being able to tie one.

It may be more of a characteristic of they people that get drawn into these discussions.

As for "certain... certainty". I was in a management training seminar many years ago. The instructor asked "How do you describe your discussions?" After a few "thoughtful"s and "considerate"s I said, "Its the right one".

The son turns 18 next week and leaves for a summer of being on staff on Sunday. He and a couple of friends in is patrol decided they wanted to get one last campout in together. They are leaving today for an over-nighter. They don't care a bit that this is not a scout trip.

Not bad Bill, although if you are wanting to do this at UofS next year we need to move to the Stone Lodge. There are a few things that I would change. Way too long, I think you've got enough for three 50 minute sessions once you have any discussion going.

While you discuss getting to your goal you don't describe what the goal looks like other than the scoutmaster gets to sit in an easy chair. When teaching this year I mentioned that patrols should be able to plan and execute a hike without adults. People were wanting clarification, "You mean a short 1 or 2 mile hike". They were shocked when I told them no, that a competent patrol should be able to accomplish a hike of any length without adults involved. I think it is import to discuss separating the patrols on campouts and in general that the troop exists to support the patrols not the other way around.

Regarding elections, I would add what the purpose of the election is and who the scouts should be selecting. There is a tendency for adults to try to influence elections towards everyone getting a chance to be the patrol leader. This does a disservice to the patrol and the unfortunate scout thrust where he does not belong.

BTW--I just noticed your email about this. I'll do a more through review and send it to you, hopefully by next week. Do you have a deadline?(This message has been edited by jet526)

I'm glad Congressman Quayle is continuing Congressman Shadegg's practice.

For what it is worth, Blaze received his folded in a rectangle as well. The "Flag Code" does not specify how the US flag is to be folded. The triangle fold is custom. Flag manufacturers fold them in a rectangle and place them in an appropriate sized box. The Flag Office returns the flag to this box, it would be impossible to fold it into a triangle and still fit in this box. My guess is that the parents you spoke to misremember how it was received.

Oddly, by executive order of Gov. Goddard in 1964, folding the Arizona flag in a triangle is specified. It still comes in a box folded in a rectangle.

If you haven't bought one already, Michael's sells display cases for the flag.