frankpalazzi

Yes actually. My pack was going to a state park that was not on the council list of approved facilities. We were told we can't go. This was before the online form.

 

We have units in our district which don't plan or staff their events to the minimum of the tour plan. As much as I hate paperwork it only takes 10 mins to fill this out and print it. Only needed if we go out of Council. Not a big deal and we will continue to do them even after they are taken down.

I've never heard of a "Council List of Approved Facilities."  Is this for insurance reasons??  I was always under the impression that all registered Scouts/Scouters had the same accident & sickness policy (from Mutual of Omaha?).  If insurance isn't the reason for this "list", then your council is reaching way over the line in their self-perceived scope of "authority."  Take your Pack wherever you want and don't worry about it.  BSA insurance doesn't kick in until all other avenues have been exhausted anyway!

The "Tour Permit" went away some 5 years ago, Richard B is correct.  It was replaced by the "Tour and Activity Plan" which is done online, and is neither approved nor denied; just filed.  It has NOT gone away, it still exists.  The TAP's only purpose is to facilitate the gathering of needed information in case of a problem/injury/catastrophe.  To the best of my knowledge, failure to file one does NOT void BSA sickness/accident coverage, it only prolongs the claim process. 

Regardless of what route you decide to take as far as filing a TAP, letting your CO know of your itinerary is always best practice.

A Court of Honor is by the boys, and for the boys; no one else.  They are the ones being honored and doing the honoring.  The adults are observers/guests of the boys and just need to learn to tolerate it.  We as leaders have seen the same things over and over dozens, even hundreds of times!  It doesn't mean everyone else has!  One of the reasons TV has "reruns"!

As for the budget, we are aware that the pack is using atrocious fiscal controls.  Our CC and treasurer are mother/daughter.  The only report on the bank account is a monthly word document from the treasurer, that as DL we used to get a copy of, but now that the mother of the treasurer has become CC, we no longer get a copy of.  We heard that they are going ahead with getting debit cards (against BSA policy) and last we heard the CC determined that the word document was sufficient reporting and that the bank statements would not be turned over to either the Cubmaster or Secretary for records.  All of this is secondhand, however, as the last "leaders meeting" we tried to attend we were kicked out of.  It is pretty much straight out of the "how to embezzle money" playbook.  But COR and Council have supposedly been made aware of it, and don't seem to mind.  Apparently we really trust this family.  If I had to guess, we don't actually have a written budget.

As others have said, there should be total transparency in unit finances.  I was Treasurer for our Troop/Pack for over twenty years.  Along came a couple of cronies who, for some reason, just didn't want me to have the job.  Mind you, I would bring a large ring binder with ALL the bank statements and cancelled checks, all receipts, the checkbook itself, and the ledger.  I too would just copy transactions and numbers from the previous month onto a word document. (Excel is NOT my friend!) Spending categories were accurately and painstakingly broken down and accounted for to the penny.  Despite the fact that I would bring everything, lay it on the table, remind everyone that all was open for inspection, no one ever looked at any of it! Hmmm...  After a few months of harrassment (read: insinuation of mishandling of funds)  by the "cronies", I walked away from the job.  They couldn't wait to audit my books!  When the report was given that "all appears to be in good order" by those who did the audit, I was told by someone present that the Cronies' faces dropped. Big Time.  They were actually removed by the CO for this and other antics.  They now reside in another unit across town, and I'm told that the "house" isn't exactly in "good order".  Kind of self-fulfiliing. 

Do you know who your Chartered Organization Representative is?  Is he/she OK with the present arrangement?  If so, there's really nothing you can do about it.  The District/Council doesn't get involved in these types of matters unless they're not getting their share of the action.

Also, debit cards aren't prohibited by BSA, but they do declare them "not recommended" or "strongly discouraged".  Our CO prohibits the use of them by the troop and pack, and when they found out they were using them (after my Treasurer gig), they went directly to the bank and cancelled them!

Just my $.04

Wow.  That was really not helpful and kind of mean spirited to be honest.  I'm sorry I asked.

 

There are 4 of them moving as a patrol and they have been arguing among themselves for several weeks about the best patrol yell.  I thought if I had a few fresh ideas for them maybe they could all agree and get started on the right foot.

 

And FYI our troop patrols use their yell at the end of every meeting.

Wow. Just plain Wow.

If the sight of a few booze bottles might curdle the milk then may I suggest:

-A few cardboard boxes to cover the "offending" containers?

-Asking the CO to move the bottles beneath the bar/out of sight? (They really should be doing this anyway.)

-Then of course there remains the issue of the BAR STRUCTURE. (How offensive!)  Just declare the area OFF LIMITS to all Scouts and Scouters.  If you see someone head toward that area, speak up. Worked for us meeting in an American Legion function hall.  10 years, never a problem.

If the above steps don't solve the "problem," then meet across town on a different night.

Thank God you have a CO that cares enough to host a Pack/Troop.  A good CO is hard to find these days.  Just be thankful and stop making waves.  Concentrate on your program.

You'll never make everyone happy no matter what you do.

Blackballed from Council??? OHH NOOO My widdle feewings are so hurt! Whoop dee doo, Edith. Whoop dee doo!

What's so important about a district or council position anyway?  Do what you feel is right and concentrate on YOUR boys.

I disagree to a point. 

 

While he doesn't need to boil

 

I disagree to a point. 

 

While he doesn't need to boil the ocean to get some slick slogan or vision statement or something, forward long-term planning using some of these tools is helpful in keeping a unit (adults, not Scouts) robust and successful.

All you need there is the 6-P Principle. "Proper Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance".  No long winded Mission Statements necessary.

Then let them work on their time-wasting silliness as a TEAM, then.  Why dump it on one person?  I would take that as a question of my methods and abilities. A direct affront.

Now that I think about it, "Grow Up" is a perfect title for this thread!

@@MattR I still don't understand why you're agonizing over this.  It's a Scout Troop, not a corporation.  You're a volunteer, not a CEO.

Get a copy of The Scoutmaster's Handbook, The Boy Scout Handbook, and The Troop Committee Guidebook and place them on the table.

"Ladies & Gentlemen, all you need to know about our Troop can be found here.  There are additional training opportunities available, and I'll be happy to assist you in exploring them.  Will there be anything else?"

Boy Scout Troops do not need Mission Statements, Philosophies,  Visions, Aims and Goals Statements, Revelations,  Prognostications, etc.

I don't know why you are submitting to this silly request.  If you ruffle some feathers, you've succeeded in making your point. You're in it for the boys.

My Scoutmaster taught me two important things when I became an adult leader:

1.  Always go "by the book" and no one can ever "call you out".

2.  KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

There are a lot of jobs in athletics other than professional athletes.  There are hundreds of thousands of people employed in various sports related occupations.  

 

The odds for a sports enthusiast of getting an average-wage job in athletics are actually pretty good.  A number of people on this forum have mentioned that they, or someone they know, have been employed in sports related fields.

 

You don't even have to be a star player to get one of these jobs.  Some of my best coaches and umpires were mediocre athletes.

 

I had one scout 10 years ago who got a master's in Sports Management, and works for the Los Angeles Dodgers.  I'm very proud of him, and follow his adventures on Instagram.  But the parents don't often think of these kinds of positions (nor do the kids).  You might be a "big fish in a small pond" for four years, but the "pond" gets a lot bigger, as do the other fish, after that.  That's culture shock to the kid who was the star quarterback on the varsity high school team, but now is the third-stringer who rarely gets to play in a college three states away.

A lot of scouters say that sort of stuff about team sports (and team sport parents). In my 40 years of coaching and supervising team sports, I have seen very little of that.  

Once, since I graduated, in 1980. Jason Bere to the Chicago White Sox in 1990. 36th round draft pick.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Bere        I always told Jock-Scouts "The day after graduation, you start all over again."  The axiom proves true time after time.

Nicest kid, and made one heck of an Italian sub when he worked at Uncle Mickey's sub shop!

As an addendum (a repeat story for some):

I once, as a CC, had a committee member (allegedly trained) ask me in front of the full committee, "Why can't we have a troop like in the training videos?"

My answer:  "Oh we sure can!  I'll get the phone number of the local SAG (Screen Actors' Guild), and find out how much that will cost us!  We'll need to hire a director and producer of course.  I'll get the cost information, and we can vote on the expenditure at the next meeting?"

I received a very puzzled look.

"You do know those are all actors, don't you?"

The topic never came up again.

Lesson taught: Never expect perfection.  There is only One Perfect Being, and I call Him "God".

Troop _ _ _, we take bad kids.

 

Forced marches in bear country solves a multitude of ills.

 

Safe scouting: getting you as close to your creator as possible without making it a permanent stay.

For this, there are two corollaries:

1. Stupid happens fast.
2. Be prepared = forestalling death.

 

Not everyone advances one rank/year, and we're not gonna worry about it.

 

We want everyone to be 1st class scouts, the concept, not the patch.

 

@@MattR THIS is what you should give your committee. Yes!

Welcome to the forum @@RivetSmasher

Several decades in this "Scouting Thing" has taught me:

That things aren't always what they seem to be.

Eagle by age 14:  In many cases this is "parent driven" not Troop driven.  The parent wants that badge and is "earning" it through their son.  I've seen this many times.

Full Uniforms:  Could there be a reason for the jeans?  Is a full uniform a deal-breaker for a lot of parents?  In times of recession or hardship, our troop did the same thing, not at all detracting from the quality of our program.  At least we were all wearing the same outfit.  Remember, Uniforming is *a* method of Scouting, not *the only* method.

Summer Camp:  They don't promote Summer Camp.  Could there be a good reason for this? Do they do something else for a week in the summer, perhaps?  What are they doing for outdoor ventures the other 51 weeks of the year?  Summer Camp is a valuable experience for all boys, but is certainly not required for any boy, or Troop for that matter.  Boys can attend with other Troops or provisionally if they so choose. And that's any summer camp in the USA, not just your local Council's.

Fundraiser/Service Project:  This Troop has to be doing something for income.  Troops do not survive on dues alone.  Parents seriously balk at "yearly assessments".  Just because you don't see them selling popcorn at the local shopping center doesn't mean they aren't fundraising.  Not all fundraisers are in the public eye at all times.  All of the latter becomes a null issue of course if the Chartered Organization is completely funding the program, which I seriously doubt.  The same thing with service and Eagle projects; it doesn't have to be in the newspaper to count and be of value in the community.

Nepotism:  How does this directly affect YOUR son in his Scouting experience?  If it doesn't, it's not an issue.  It happens everywhere.

Let your son give this troop a chance before you judge them.  This is *his* choice.  If he is having a great time and learning something, he is in the right place.

Remember, things aren't always what they may appear to be.

(Edited for grammar and punctuation)

The reason I'm doing this is because my committee asked me to write down my vision/philosophy/whatever it is that drives a lot of decisions I make and I told them about the aims and methods of scouting. Unfortunately they said that's all, to put it kindly, poorly written. So I'm going to just rewrite the aims and methods. I also think it would help talking to parents outside of cub scouts, something that we need to start doing.

MattR, if you feel you  have to do this for your committee then they clearly don't "get it".  Suggest training, chuckle, and keep doing what you're doing!

How about a "Human Bridge?"  Half made up of Webelos on each side, and half made up of Scouts on each side.  Cubs make the Cub Sign, Scouts make the Scout Sign as the graduate(s) cross(es).

Best of all, Cost: $0.00.  No materials needed!

@ Any skit that has to resort to one of those items to be "funny" is in desperate need of a little more imagination. There are hundreds if not thousands of skits available online, the vast majority of which are perfectly acceptable even under your stipulations. If the boys "can't find anything," its not from the lack of material as much as from the lack of trying.

 

Side note, I always find it amusing when people say "I never did/always did such-and-such, and I turned out okay!" I can't help but find myself asking, "but did you really?" 

More imagination? These are pre-teen and teenage boys. Don't expect Hemingway.

And I can't help but find myself answering, "Yes, I did. Really!"

I guess if boys want to continue to do the "Important Papers" or the "The Viper Is Coming" skit, they'll have to provide a "Safe Zone" for those who might be scarred for life because of the sight of a roll of toilet paper! (Or, those who don't poop. Let's be all-inclusive here!) Oh, and "Crowbar From Sears" (How violent!)  Those time-tested skits do get a laugh from boys who have never seen them before.

Puh-leez!

 

Hey Mashmaster,

 

I'm a volunteer for my council's outdoor adventures committee, and these are the requirements we use from the Summer Camp Staff Training Guide 430-037.

 

"The list of don’ts include:

• Toilet humor—anything that involves bodily functions, toilet paper, etc.

• Water—where the audience or participants get wet

• Embarrassing an audience member

• Racial put-downs, making fun of mental or physical disabilities, religious groups,

and others

• Portraying violent behavior

• Anything with sexual overtones

• Anything that is not in keeping with the ideals of the Boy Scouts of America"

 

Hope this helps!

 

Would have been a very short campfire when I was a Scout.  Truly amazing that we all turned out OK.

Sadly, Frank, those days are gone. Someone will get offended and someone else will feel the need to check one's "privilege".

And Mr. Orwell continues to smile down upon us.

Can't we just let kids be kids? Seriously.

You can rotate adults in and out all week long. You only need two: One 21+ (registered) and an 18+.  Have the 18+ fill out an adult application and keep it "on file" for the week.   See who's available what days/nights and develop a schedule.  We've done it for years.

Sounds like an "adult-run" troop to me too.  Does the committee dictate all of the activities?

Let's face the truth: some are just in it for themselves. looks good on a resume' or whatever. The good ones? They stay because they know what it is all about. You can't teach people how to care. They either do or they don't. Eagles are no different. Sad but true.

And then there is the situation you can't fault the boy for: Helicopter Parents.  Over the years I've heard things like "No driver's license until you get your Eagle," etc.  These are the boys who not only make a quick exit from your Troop (being 18 or close to it), but select a college far out of Helicopter Range and start a career and family several states away.  See you at Christmas, Mom and Dad.  Also, sad but true!

Years ago, one of our leaders approached a parent like this and told her (knowing the boy was unhappy) that if she wanted the Eagle badge, just fork over $3.50 and he'd get her one.  If her son wants it, he has to earn it. She put her son (and I'm sure, herself) in a troop in a neighboring town and made THEM miserable.  Never heard the outcome.

Unfortunately, there's nothing we as leaders can do about it. We can only "Do Our Best".

Section here.  Piece of PA 3 years ago, and all of Shenandoah National Park  (Skyline Drive) over the last 2.  I try to cover 10-12 miles a day over 10 days every summer. Just started the Blue Ridge Parkway, and the journey continues South this July.

unless you're part of Mr. Stosh's troop.  He simply tears the whole thing up on an infraction and the scout has to re-take it again at summer camp if they want to use their knives and/or work in the axe yard.  All the boys know this will happen, it is no myth!  (well, sort of, Mr. Stosh's warning is enough.  He has never seen an infraction so he's never torn up a card. )

I do the exact same thing! When one is careless with an axe or knife, there may not BE a second, third, fourth chance,

A council or a district "taking over" a fundraiser?  I had to laugh.

There would be a few choice words exchanged if they even attempted or suggested doing this to my unit. Sailors would blush, trust me.

I can only imagine seeing our IH and a few dozen members of our CO, battle-hardened veterans, showing up on the scene of this situation.

Our fundraising activities are no one's business except ours and the COs.  We don't file a fundraising application because of the questions on it.  Those questions are no one's  business. Period.  We raise what we need, and spend what we raise.  The CO owns the troop and the funds, and the CO is the only entity we share our financial information with.  Often times, they are our best customers! 

The district and council get their fair share from us through registrations, rechartering, summer camp fees, off-season camp fees, district camporees and Klondike,  and FOS contributions.  They are not going to meddle in our independent fundraising efforts.