fotoscout

Endless creatively, endless imagination, endless resource, endless support, future leaders, they are called parents. As long as they follow instruction, and defer to the den leader, (which mine all do, sometimes with a gentle reminder), they are always welcome.

Were doing the Council Scout Show this weekend. Ive had to do almost nothing. I come home at night and find material on my doorstep, the phone rings and someone says, Its done. Together we bring the kids a stronger, better, more interesting program then I could bring them if I and my asst. were doing this alone.

Snacks should always be left for the end of the meeting. My den meetings don't start untill 5:30, so we don't do snacks, it's not required.

As for location of meetings, it sounds like each parent is taking a turn hosting the meeting. Thats a good thing! But, in two years when you're the Tiger Leader you can do the following.... at your parents meeting in the begining of the year have each parent sign up for an achievment, put dates on it, make copies, and mail it. Poof....no last minute phone calls.

Good Luck

Welcome Scrapperlisa,

First off, if youre doing Tiger Cubs and someone isnt being disruptive then youre doing it wrong. Tigers, parents, and siblings can all be disruptive, and in turn each will be. So maybe you should look at the tone of his meetings and make a decision based on that. Remember, the boys should be having FUN!

Tigers is a Parent-Partner program, its designed like that. Hes is doing you and the others a disservice by suggesting that any of boys be there without a parent.

I never have just enough materials to go around for a project; there were always extra materials except when a particular piece to the project was expensive. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps hes being too thrifty with his funds. You might suggest to him that youd be willing to pay for the extra materials.Activities involving your younger son are a little different story. If the activity is such the younger boy can stand beside or behind your older son and mimic him thats probably fine. However in a group activity that has the tigers interacting with each other, it would be unfair to have one of Tigers interact with a 3 year old. Most of the parents bring something with them for the younger child to do during this period.

Everyone handles this issue differently, my position on sibs is this; siblings are more than welcome, boys, girls it doesnt make a difference. Materials for sibs to participate are usually available but remember that the parents are paying dues which should be spent on supplies for the boys not sibs. Also, as the leader, my contact time with the boys is limited. If I take time to work with the sib, then one of the boys got a little less of my time.

Having said that, the sibs go home from my meeting with beads, patches, stars, ribbons, pictures, whatever, and they are as excited as the boys. Your Cubmaster was correct, and you may want to have him talk to the Tiger Leader. Scouting is for families and you are at the first step. If there is another den in you pack you may want to check it out.

What is Venturing? Beyond the obvious, age and gender, can someone tell me what the difference is between a well run BS program and Venturing?

Ive read the material, Ive sat though the presentations, and Ive spent time with Venturing leaders. But I still dont see it.

And dont forget the gold epaulets without the cord as a recognition of service when the denners term is over.

How disappointed was that little boy who couldnt stay to fulfill his duties because mom or dad couldnt spare an extra 15 minutes?

I chose to have two denners and no assistant denner, (I didnt have the heart to make one of them subservient to the other). They have a set of chores and I have them discuss who will do what as they setup and start the meeting. I have a large den, so two deep leadership is never a problem. And by having two denners, I am assured that one of them will be there to setup and begin the meeting.

We meet in the school cafeteria. I separate the tasks like this: Denner #1 positions the flags, moves the tables, hangs the posters, and generally prepares the room for our meeting. Denner #2 sets up our project or program materials and pre opening activity. Both Denners help carry all my stuff!!!

We line up in two rows for our opening, each denner is in charge of a row. They both lead the Pledge, one leads the Promise, the other leads the Law of the Pack.At the end of the meeting it's just the opposite.

When it works, its a thing of beauty.

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Sorry folks, but I liked the bit of secrecy. Information on the course content was readily available for the asking. Details on the presentation and methods were not so available. It is a well crafted program, most will tell you that they enjoyed the experience. Ah, but the program varies from class to class, why you ask? Because each year the staff changes, and with that the presentation and methods also change. So it would do you no good even if I did described my WB experience to you great detail.

Besides that, if you're in the middle of a good book do you want someone to tell you how it ends? Of course not. Do you want to sit in the movie theater and listen to some guy behind you talk about what coming next in the movie. Of course not.

Folks, its not secrecy, its courtesy! Thank you.(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

This is an interesting debate going on here. As a relative newbie, and someone who is committed to bringing my kids the BSA version of Cub Scouts, as opposed to MY personal version of cubbing, I can tell you all that every one of us will walk away from WB with a different experience and a different set of tools. Perhaps it will heighten your appreciation of ceremonial importance or perhaps it will give you the confidence to initiate 360 degree evaluation of your unit. Understand that there is more to WB than the academic curriculum. The tools and the personal background that you bring to the table will determine what you take away.

There is plenty for everyone to take away from the WB experience.

For new cub leaders will it help you understand what BSA is really about? Sure it will. Will it help you work with your other leaders and council? Sure it will. Will it help you motivate and work with the parents? Sure it will. Will it give you some of the tools you need to make your unit better? Sure it will. Will it help you understand what youre preparing your boys for as they get older? Sure it will. Will it motivate you to be a better leader? Most likely it will! Will it do all of this at a higher level than is possible in the routine BSA training programs? Yes it will!

And for BS leaders guess what, the same questions and answers apply.

Comparisons between the old Cub/BS WB programs vs. the new WB program are valid only in a nostalgic way. The programs appear to be very different, and to some extent they have a different set of goals. The common trait however is to provide an oppurtunity for you to develop new or better skills that can be brought back to your unit.

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As part of the High Adventure Basic Backpacking Course this year, our council offered the 20 hour National Safety Council Wilderness First Aid Course. It was time well spent, but I felt that it was more like an advanced first aid course rather than a wilderness first aid course.

Regardless of which course you take, be sure to find out if it will concentrate on the topics that are of interest to you. Dont go by the course title alone!(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Most often I leave our CSRT with a smile. Im smiling because I had a good time watching the other adults act like children. And in turn theyre smiling from watching me act like a child. The newcomers however arent smiling. Were smiling because were the regulars and weve come to understand the purpose of this silliness. I think that its just this silliness that keeps people away from RT.

Newcomers arrive for their first RT with a single thought.How do I run a CS meeting, what do I do with the kids. The Round Table meeting begins and they are immediately asked to stand and introduce themselves. Next they listen to a bunch of annoucements that mean nothing to them. Then, theyre asked to sing, maybe dance, maybe paint a picture, maybe play a game, or build a puppet. They are at a pack meeting for adults. They are insulted.

They dont come back unless, by coincidence, they picked up something of particular use to them at their next den or pack meeting.

The thing thats missing here is a FRAME. Before that new leader walks thru the door into RT they should have a very clear understanding that RT will model for them, from pre-opening activities to a closing ceremony, what a meeting should look like. The modeling purpose of RT is severely under communicated.

Conversely, the modeled pack (den) meeting format must be dropped from time to time. We need to be engaged in an adult pursuit every once and a while.

It took me a long time to figure this out, but I stuck with it and now I actually have a good time. Ive met some great people and we have a great time laughing at each other.

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Im a Licensed Marine Engineer, and Certified Plant Engineer, with a BSME. At present I am a Supervising Engineer at a DOE Laboratory responsible for the Site Wide Steam Facility.

In my past life I was the Dir. of Govt Sales for Shipboard HM&E systems for a large DOD testing contractor and traveled too much for a land job. Prior to that I sailed Oil Tankers as a 2nd Asst. Eng.

Bob,

If you start with a Tiger Cub and stay with the program as he becomes a Sr. Webelos , its virtually impossible to do the same program over and over again. Cub Scout leaders have no choice but to ...... or get out of the way. As Im sure you know, in Boy Scouts its different. Some Troops require that the SM job turns over after ?? number of years, some troops dont. But ASMs can stay on forever. Sure, that can make them a little stale, but many of them develop great expertise (and experience), in whatever it is that they do for the troop. And when needed those ASMs often step up to plate to do wonderful things. Tenure and experience are mutually exclusive, one does not necessarily affect the other.

I'm probably not the most qualified one to answer this but I'll take a stab at it.

The ticket process is designed to help develop the individual scouter. I think that there is great integrity within the ticket writing process to avoid having the participants "work for the council", as they complete their tickets.

If the scouter does a ticket item at the unit/district/council level, the unit/district/council will reap the benefit. Thats great and everyone wins, but in this process it is what was gained by the individual that is most important.

Scomman,

How did you make out?

Those two kids are pretty luck to have you !!

Ask the Dad to get you a few books, Program Helps, Leader Book, and the Leader How-to Book. There is some great stuff in them. Like the last person said Pow-Wow on line is a great source of information.

As for the Dad, put him to Work. Show him things that you want to do with the boys and have him make them or at least he can go to the store and buy materials for you. Have him set up your Go-See-Its.

Another thing you might try is to dig up some Cubmasters Minutes from this or other web sites. Find one that goes along with your current achievement. Give it to the dad and tell him that it is appropriate for the leader to have this discussion with the boys at the close of the den meeting.

You might have a better idea of what a scout leader should be doing than the dad does. Dont be afraid to suggest to him what his role is.

If all else fails, come to New York. I have a den of 18 boys and theyre always ready for a new game and a new Den Chief.

Eagledad

Ive been told that our Council will suggest that new leaders take the class within their first three years with BSA. I am not too sure that many people will take them up on it, but it sounds like a great idea. Its tough enough to get new leaders trained to their positions, let alone to spend another 6 days at Wood Badge

This brings me to your question about making it a requirement. First is the simple fact that everyone who was in my class, wanted to be there for the sake of being there. That fact alone created an atmosphere unlike most other classes that Ive taken, regardless of whether they were professional, college, post grad., or for other volunteer work. Putting people into the class on a mandatory basis would only serve to alter the Sprit of Wood Badge in a less than positive manner.

Next comes the issue of time. There is a limit on how much time all of us have to spend on Scouting. If youre working to become the next SM, or if youre a new SM, then the last thing you have is extra time to attend WB and then to complete your ticket. To me this doesnt sound like a great idea.

My apologies to all, I digressed, slightly, from the thread.

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Last year the early bird price was about $165, the late comer price was around $195. It was held at the Council Camp. Meals were great, and there were plenty of handouts including the binder, coin, hats, cups, tee shirts, letter opener and probably some others that Ive forgotten. The staff also sold other Wood Badge items to help offset the cost. For the first weekend we all stayed in BSA platform tents.

As for Cub Scout people staying away because of the overnight requirements, that was not the case in our Council. At least one third of the class was made up of Cub Scouters. Be mindful that the overnight requirement does not require you to backpack into your campsite. Any type of camping gear (tenting) is acceptable and boy did we have some camping gear! People in need of gear simply borrowed it. Everyone was more than generous and made sure that those who needed gear were well equipped.

Ditto acco40...Money well spent!

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First- Campmor will give you a discout of about 10% if you pay with a check from your troop/ pack account.

Second - try the Eureka outlet store at 607-779-2265. They may have lower prices.

Third - Try the Eureka Customer Service Dept. Sorry I don't have the phone number. They are usually VERY accomodating to their customers. Tell them that you are a scout leader and see what happens.

If all else fails try this.... TA Enterprises at 800-266-9527. They are a third party supplier of tent poles. I haven't spoken to them in quite some time, but they were pretty good when I used them.

Good Luck

A short uniform story.

This past weekend my Pack did a sleepover at the New York Hall of Science. This particular night was reserved for Scouts. There were probably 200 Cub Scouts running around the place. Most were completely out of uniform, some were wearing pack Tee Shirts. A few (very few) were in a proper uniform. Of course the few, were the four Scouts from my den that went on the trip.

The program included a magic show. The magician included the boys in virtually every trick she did. At one point, she pulled my son and one other boy out of the audience. She stood the two boys next to her, one on her left and the other on her right. She stopped and took a breath. Her next words were classic, all she could say was, What a contrast!. Here she had two Cub Scouts, one properly dressed, tucked in, pockets buttoned, gig line straight, hat properly placed on his little head, and the other, well, you can only imagine. The magician had no involvement in scouting. But she did not hesitate for one second to comment on the boys appearance.

Each and every time the boys step out of their home on the way to a scout activity, they represent all of us. My sons appearance on that stage made me proud, he made our other boys proud and he made the other parents from our pack proud, and in a very un-scout-like tone I hope he made all the other parents that were their just a little embarrassed.

I dont care what material its made of, I dont care what style it is, I dont care what color(s) it is. I think it should be MANDATORY, AND AFFORDABLE!

Our CO is the local Chamber of Commerce. They have a hard enough time keeping their member merchants happy and dont really want to put any energy into scouting. The CoC leadership turns over every year, so we have to retrain the CO president every year. Sometimes, getting leader applications signed has been like an interrogation (even when the new leader was a parent). They have no meeting space to provide us and dont provide any funding. Last year we had a community service project planned with them, and at the last minute they pull it out from under us. Now heres the kicker... They sponsor a Pack, Troop, Crew, and Team.

Go figure it??

You may want to wear appropriate footwear on the first day.....just for impression sake. After that you may want to have a different color for each day. Perhaps your shoe color could match the sunrise/sunset colors. As an even greater statement of personal expresion, you could check with the cooks and match the color of the days menu. Of course at times a gppd pair of high, very high boots might be in order.

Wood Badge is intended to be a personnal expierence, so go for it, express yourself.

OGE, remember the sound that the spats made? I miss that sound.

I dont know why anyone would want to finish his or her tickets in 6 months. Each time I run across one of my WB classmates or staffers we ask the same question, How are you doing on your tickets? Of course were interested in the answer, but the answer is really not the purpose of the question. I think that we really ask the question so that we can relive some part of the class. We laugh, we smile, we joke, we repeat war storiesyou all know the drill.

I signed up for the High Adventure Backpacking Class this year, one of my WB classmates is also in the class. The two of us are like a side show during the breaks. Our reminiscing and stories have even enticed two of the HABC members to sign up for this years WB class.

So don't rush those tickets just to get done with them, enjoy the whole expierence.

Dan,

Yes it was! It was the oldest troop, not the showyest(sp) but a good solid troop. With the most adult participation, and did I mention that all the adult leaders were trained. Clearly this troop was a mature troop. Not the boys, the troop. It is also the troop that is in my community.

Kwc,

You're right. Those of us that do this will spend more time dwelling on the transition that many other people. On another thread I commented about one of the troops we visited. The SM of that troop told the parents that they were not allowed on outings. To me this would raise a red flag, even if it were my local troop.

But all things being equal, barring any red flags I will stay in my community. All the troops we visited appeared to be well run, but different, even the most unstructured. By this I don't mean to say that the meeting was chaotic, it wasn't. It moved along and eveything got done in an orderly fashion, but not with military percision.