Engineer61

Some interesting thoughts there Brew.

I'm a bit more confused about Scouting than your friend, because I get competing messages for which I don't make the connection.

There's the journey, experience, leadership, outdoors message, Scouting is Outing or vice versa.

Then there's the "you gotta" message ... MB's, Camporee, Summer Camp, Jambo, Eagle by 14, Eagle-then-quit, parent bribing their kids to get Eagle, Eagle means better colleges, better jobs, only Scouts are good leaders...

So I think it's easy for non-Scouters to not get it.

"So, how do you overcome inertia on their part when fear and possible discomfort may be part of the "problem"? "

Generally, with kids you don't.

If they are interested and see a value to going to camp. They will go. If not, they won't.

If you talk them into it, chances are they will spend a lot of time thinking about what they could have been doing besides picking up trash and preparing their tents for inspection.

Mine hated camp the first year...too busy...to much rushing around (so they wouldn't get homesick). So Mom had to really push buttons this year to get him to sign up... promised that it wouldn't be as rushed.

Scout's idea of camping, is setting up camp..a hike or two and sitting down to watch the world go by....not exactly what you get at summer camp.

"The kid has no interest, but it really how does he/she know if they've nevered tried it?.... So a parent would have to force, bribe, or otherwise scheme.... Not the most noble thing, but it might be well intentioned."

So the solution to this is to throw a gambit of possibilities for the kids to choose from.

Sports

Music

Scouting

School Clubs

Most kids making Eagle in our troop are under 15 (most are 14) ... so the Driver's License thing doesn't seem to come up.

Although the way mine is going, it might ... just not by me.

I don't think there is a set solution to it.

You either deal with change, or you let change deal with you.

It's an acquired ability, usually a baptism of fire. You don't know how to deal with losing a job, until you've been let go.

But when you force change just for the sake of the experience, something is lost in the translation. Forcing a kid to go to camp, join a team, etc., can cause a resentment that overshadows the intended lesson of dealing with the actual activity.

In some cases, it can completely backfire.

At 8, we used to make our kids go to church, now at 16 an 20, both think Church is evil in and of itself, neither believe God is real. Solving that is beyond me.

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

"It is often said that boys join (and stay in) Scouts because of the "program"."

Hmmm...I'd say...

Some boys join because of the program.

Some boys join because of friends.

Most boys join because of parents.

Probably the same for the reasons they stay in.

My Scout is bored silly with Scouting ... Mom is having to guilt him into every meeting, every camp out, Summer Camp and Eagle project. Yep, she's pushing...nope...can't do a thing about it.

"Sometimes a boy needs to learn to stick with something even when he's not feeling like it."

My view ... kids have a whole adult lifetime to do stuff he'll not want to do. So why the rush to start it early. If it really makes my kid's life miserable then it's not a positive.

"I spent a HUGE amount of time with one lad who, I later found out, was only coming long enough to collect his parental bribe. I felt betrayed."

This has come up a couple of times. Kid being bribed/coerced to stay in Scouts, or get Eagle. I've run across it myself in baseball and band.

So, my question is: "Who's the betrayer?" The parents for putting up the bribe, or the kid that sees the pot of gold and goes for it? Granted, neither are rousing examples of good character.

No...I didn't catch the quotes on hypothetical...slow on the uptake this week...

"Do you think he told you so he would be ejected from the troop or you would tell his parents?"

I'd think probably not, teenagers are funny that way ... they tend to assume that their own parents won't stick up for them, they double that with unrelated adults. It gets worse when they think (or know, as in this case) the the parents are definitely on the other side of the fence.

I am always amazed when one of my teens finally admits their in over their heads with a problem. Usually, had they asked for advice early on, the fix would have been simple, but by the time they do let the cat out of the bag, the problem is a lot bigger. It's part of the growing up experience of "I can handle this" without being able to perceive all the nuances of the problem. And they are always amazed that my wife and I do stand up for them when called upon.

Do what you will, but is sounds like this boy is done with Scouting. Friends trump Eagle. Couple that with pushy parents ... he's got a lot of misery coming ... so you have to ask yourself, "Is this what Eagle and Scouting is about?" I'd step up to the plate for the kid, ASM or no ASM.

We keep the sleeping bags bagged all the time. No room to hang up in my garage...

So, if I was the SPL, once I discovered what had happened ... I'd chew out the offenders (en masse), then tell the SM to cough up the gear and get on with the trip.

After all, it's boy-run/led ... SM is in the passenger seat ... not a safety issue, except for maybe food poisoning from undercooked food being rushed off the stove.

Wow TT, you're in a world of hurt here.

I agree, this kid's a YPT disaster waiting to happen...totally toxic...wouldn't want my kid to be around him...behavior always gravitates to the least common denominator.

I'm surprised that the other parents haven't started to chime in on Damien yet.

If the kid gets a thrill by doing this, then there were be a point where the thrill is gone and he has to escalate to get juices going again. It'll be anyone's guess on what that escalation is.

Too bad that is sounds like your SM is a doormat on this.

Would I hold him up? Nope.

He's "taking one for the club" by gutting it out for his misguided parents.

If he wanted out, I'd offer to talk to his parents on his behalf. If he's opened up to me on this, it most likely means he's already gone down the avenue of talking to his parents on his own, and gotten a nice smack-down.

So, Scout went camping last weekend.

Once they got the camp set up, they had to come up with meal ideas, since the planned ideas were aborted by the Red Flag. (No open flames...fires, camp stoves ...nada.)

A quick trip to town for Pizza Hut was the solution.

Kinda funny.

You'll find that the kids who don't show respect have parents who don't respect others either.

Even with my boys ADD/ADHD, it was never an option for them to be disrespectful. I have pulled my boys from activities and gone home because of it. I find you need only do that once.

I had one incident on one of my 9-10 baseball teams once where I had a kid who was completely out of control all the time. Trashing the other players, regardless of the team, defiant to coaches, umpires...etc.

I pulled the parents and player aside at the end of a practice, and proceeded to read them all the riot act. I was *not* nice. I gave them two choices, shape-up or ship-out...that I had absolutely zero tolerance for his behavior, that I don't put up with that from my kid, I certainly am not willing to put up with it from theirs.

He game back two days later and played his heart out the rest of the season. Never anything but yes sir, no sir, yes coach, no coach, thank you coach.

IMO, that exactly what Scouts is missing, even in the Troop level, its totally inappropriate behavior from 99% of the participants. SPL's aren't capable of instilling this...in fact, the SPL's are sometimes the biggest offenders.

I'll just comment that this isn't just a problem in Scouting. Its probably an issue in every organization that deals with youth.... sports, school music programs, PTA's/PTO's/PTSO's and the like.

Most sports organizations have it. It usually involves someone with an agenda to push. Once that person gets to the top of the heap, look out...mass changes are coming. He or she will use the position and organization to influence or peddle himself/herself to the next level up the chain.

When they finally do jump ship, you are left with a lot of damage control and rebuilding.

There are 1000 lumen upgrade kits for the MagLite 3D (and other MagLite) flashlights.

The stock MagLite 3D LED is 130 lumens.

About $120

Nice comments on the Kanstul Bugles.

The Bb bugle will be slightly easier to play, as the bore is slightly smaller. Also, for those who already play trumpet, the transposition can mess with your head. (Like switching between the various keyed trumpets) so the music teachers in the school might not appreciate the G bugle as much.

The 7C mouthpiece is the classic beginner trumpet mouthpiece. Never was my favorite, but I had fatter lips and a wider embouchure.

For those of you who are flashlight extremists.... I have an "upgrade" for you.

I'm sure some of you are familiar with the 3-D Cell Mag-lite LED flashlight ... quite powerful at 130 lumens. A nice focused beam for about 300m. (My daughter uses one when she is working as a night security guard.)

There are some "scientists" out there that have modification kits for the the Mag-lite, where you beef up the current carrying capacity, switch to high capacity L-ion or NiMH, and replace the LED with modified heat sink and voltage regulator.

The result is a 1000 lumen flashlight ... 7.6 times brighter.

Now, that's a flashlight!

My guess is orifice as well, it might be plugged, but I'm guessing it's worn out.

20 years of micro particles (dirt) running through it has widened the hole in the orifice.

Try to clean it, but if that doesn't clear it up, then replace it.

Advancement Chair - I'll see the Treasurer's "hours" with the AC's "months".

Between the data entry, camp scheduling, griping parents and Troopmaster crashes and countless trips to the Scout Store, the AC is the position that will turn over a lot. Not to mention 20 reams of paper and ink jet cartridges we donate per year.

My wife is calling it quits after two years.

Thanks for the ideas.

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Is there any place where you can find how many of a certain MB has been awarded in a year for a District, for example?

I've tossed around the idea of becoming and MB counselor (or whatever the term is) for the Sports MB, but given the requirements of a full season of participation in two different sports, I can't imagine a lot of Scouts giving up that many camping trips to get it.

"Like Oak Tree says, though, we do water down the swim test most of the time, and give credit for just completin' the 100 yards."

Yeah, the test gets watered down (kind of a pun isn't it) even by Certified Lifeguards...I would have failed my Scout based on what I saw.

"Is there any reason they could not have let him use it?" (Swim mask...)

Had the same problem with my Scout, won't swim without goggles.

Yeah, I think there is a problem with allowing it ... I think one important part of the swim test is the jumping into water over your head and swimming off ...

When he falls of the deck/dock/boat will he panic or ignore the sting in his eyes?

Mine will panic and drown. Just the way it is.

I used to to a lot of leatherwork in the summer as a kid. Got pretty good at it too.

Tandy Leather has a lot of simple project kits.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/Kits/Veg-Split-Youth-Kits/Veg-Split-Youth-Kits.aspx