Engineer61

I already have three doctors who have said that if completely implemented, they will become cash-only practices.

They've said what they would be paid under the plan does not offset the costs of providing the care and the cost of dealing with the new red tape.

Two are my primary care doctors (mine and the kids).

The other is my retinal surgeon.

I don't see the big deal...instant recognition is not the norm in adult society...most of the time you don't get recognized at all for your work, except for your paycheck...so why teach it in Scouts?

But ... doesn't this requirement for instant recognition/gratification fall suspiciously close to the "American kids are spoiled" thread?

Just askin.

Yep.. Brew hit it.

When you add the contempt between divorced parents to the mix, the risk tolerance drops even more.

Of course when you add the behavior of organizations to hide cases of abuse, many parents feel pretty justified in being risk intolerant.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Funny ... I got the "taxpayer" reference...

It's not "tax" in the governmental sense, but the "tax" you pay BSA to be in Scouting, be it money, time, etc.

But I agree there too many pronouns in the OP to decipher what's real.

Camp Geronimo is on a complete fire restriction, (propane only) and the NFS has closed the forest, no there is no off-camp hiking.

There have been 3 black bear attacks of campers in Arizona in the last few weeks...all in the same area.

All of the attacks have happened while the camper has been sleeping. The most recent is last Friday, the victim is recovering after extensive surgery.

Two bears have been killed, DNA confirmation is pending.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/06/25/20120625bears-arizona-attacks-hunted-killed-arbk.html

How about a phone call....

Hi Mom,

I'm at the church can you pick me up.

Yeah I know we are back two hours early.

I tried to call, but the 9 and 8 buttons on ASM X's phone don't work, so I couldn't dial our numbers. So I had to wait till I got to the church to borrow ASM Y's phone. Maybe I should take mine from now on.

Ok...see you then.

=======

True story.

LL does not attract many travel teams. There are too many rules and restrictions in the LL system. Even the normal baseball rules and distances are different.

Most of travel teams in my area prefer those leagues which cater to the tournament schedules and play rules.

Yes, the numbers in youth sports are pretty much down across the board.

When the numbers drop, the adult volunteers drop off as well.

A few years ago, my league was at 700+ players in the Spring. This spring, it was under 500.

I *completely* agree!

For kids under high school age, I don't think there is *any* activity (especially athletics and including Scouting) that should be year round, or be so time demanding that the kid cannot engage in any other activity.

I am against all travel club sports teams entirely...most of the coaches have no concept what the capabilities of their players are, nor how to prevent injuries from overuse.

"Some of us have no interest in the outdoors."

"If that is the case, then why would they even consider the BSA? "

The Dad's *didn't* consider it. How you ask?

Because the Moms got it started with Cubs, which the Moms ran.

Then once the crossover happens, there's this magic hand-off to Dad, "Get out there and camp."

Like the attitude than my son's friend's parents gave at the AOL ceremony... "Whew, that's finally over, now we can go on with real life."

My thought is that there isn't anything that BSA can do to reverse the tide...

The world has changed ... while the BSA is tied to the thoughts of an insignificant British Lord from 1910.

There is far more negative than positive PR out there on the BSA...

Look at where BSA is:

... pretty much a white, christian-only club, just on the basis of the CO's.

... no gays.

... no atheists.

... no females.

... perceived as a safe haven for pedophiles...BSA doesn't turn incidents over to the Police for investigation...that dates back all the way to Powell himself.

... nationally publicized accidents and deaths on an annual basis, with the BSA claiming no responsibility for anything (method or otherwise).

... perceptions of Eagle means you get better colleges/jobs now invalidated in the private sector.

I don't know how you'd fix all that.

I have seen no Scout that I would call an extrovert. Plenty of extreme introverts though.

OP asked ...

"So where have this generation of fathers gone?????"

"Video games or too self absorbed???"

Some of us are too busy keeping roofs over heads while keep our own sanity. Wasting a hard earned weekend hanging out with 20-30 loud and undisciplined boys while they struggle to boy-lead themselves into or out of something is too painful to deal with.

Some of us have no interest in the outdoors.

Nope.

Uniforms are designed and worn for various reasons ...

1) to identify what side of a conflict you are on (wars, sports, etc.)

2) to provide a cohesive presentation in a performance (marching band, dance troupes)

3) to signify a position of authority (law enforcement)

4) to satisfy the ego of pontificating self-absorbed windbags (Idi Amin, Stalin, Kadafi, etc.)

Kudu - Well exampled.

"What is linking Christian Scientists to the BSA?"

Because like the Christian Scientists and Catholics and other religious groups, BSA has (with dealing with abuse issues) put itself above (or outside) society's norms and laws.

Now the Christian Scientists, Catholics, LDS and other religious factions can (in the USA) hide behind the 1st Amendment. LDS used that shield to support open polygamy, until the US government ended it. The Catholic Church is well on its sprial to unwind from its protective cover.

BSA, on the other hand, is a corporation that has been given special dispensation. That, with the order to release the files, is unwinding as well...

"Every rumor needs to be a police case?"

When is comes to possible child abuse...the answer is yes. Most states have rewritten their laws over the past dozen years or so, such that it puts nearly everyone at a legal requirement to report any and all suspected cases of child abuse to the Police or Child Protection Services.

Even with such reporting, there is no guarantee that anything will be done. Just look at the Sandusky case. A kid reported his abuse to a school official, and was dismissed out of hand.

I really kinda sickens me that BSA had the audacity to be the investigators, judges and jury on this. How many real case of abuse are in the files that justice was never served on, because BSA buried it for their own corporate good. Time will tell.

So, I have two sons, 16 and 14. (A & B)

A has played team sports and is in marching band. When he's in one of these activities, he's committed to effort, practices, takes advice, gives advice.

B (a Scout) has never played any team sport, but is now in marching band. So far he doesn't get the idea that he has to work outside of the rehearsals to become proficient. I can see where this is going to lead him into issue with the other section members and the band as a whole. There's a lot of kids (and parents) putting a lot of time (10-15 hours a week) and $$$ into the effort.

I think the issue is that B doesn't understand the concept of a team, he's focused only on his individual effort. He helps out on Eagle projects, CS projects, etc. but those don't seem to be focused on the performance as a team, only on the result.

I've been trying to come up with an example...but I don't know if it will work.

Say 100 kids go to Scout Summer Camp and work on a new Teamwork MB. At end of the week 99 have completed the requirements, 1 has not. Because 1 did not complete the requirements, none of the campers are awarded the MB.

Like I said, I don't know if this will work.

Eventually, BSA will accept gay and lesbian members and leaders.

It just takes BSA longer to step into mainstream society.

In 1914, the BSA gave local councils the power to ban African Americans from Scouting. Until 1974, some southern councils of the Boy Scouts of America were still racially segregated.

Our troop has done both...sending mail from camp and having mail sent to camp.

The result is usually the same...our Scout got homesick.

Showering? Yeah right...I'd be happy if he didn't come home from camp with athlete's foot from not changing his socks for a week.

Since the ad was during the morning rush hour on a news talk radio station, I'd say it was definitely targeting parents.

"Eagle" was one of the first words in the spot, BSA wasn't mentioned until the end.

"When I teach knots, I tell the real world applications for most of them."

That's certainly useful if your in the outdoors a lot.

My knot need is pretty limited....tying my shoes is about it. The only other thing I tie much of is wires, and I use zip-ties for that.

"So explain to me what the journey and destination of Youth sports???????"

As with most things, it depends on why you are doing it...

If you want to be an athlete on the professional level...yes, there are still 6 year old kids who dream of being MLB baseball players...then youth baseball is part of the journey to get to that destination, as misplaced as it might be in most cases. (Just as Eagle scout is for a majority of the boys who start in Cubs.)

If you are like my son, you play youth sports because you like playing the game for fun. It is neither a journey, nor a destination for him. He plays baseball in it's purest form, for the fun of playing ball. Just as his old man did. He doesn't know his batting average, how many fielding errors he's committed, or how many times he's struck out this season. And he really doesn't care.

Yesterday, I heard my first radio sport for BSA...took me a while to catch on to topic.

Anyone else heard a BSA spot?