Eman

The Lost Sea in Sweetwater, TN has an overnight cave trip.

Wow, I'm not the only person that sees this happening!

When I joined scouting I was dumb enough to think Boy Scouts was actually about the boys. I was also dumb enough to believe that the paid people were there to work for the leaders and the boys. I actually thought that council execs were hired by national to run the councils. Boy have I learned a lot in the last 8 years. When I learned that council execs were hired by the council board(read major donators) I learned a lot about how a council operates.

Robin,

I was told that all the patrols were named after birds, is that true? What are the progression of ranks from joining? Do you have Cubs? Ours is called BSA, what is your organization called? How is the paid section organized? Do you have Woodbadge as it was or has it changed to weekends and what is the program? Do you have any organization within Scouts like we have Order of the Arrow?

Three months between outings is too long.

Unfortunately confusion does reign supreme on an outing because even if it's boy run it takes the parents responsibility to get there.(This message has been edited by Eman)

I think the strength of the program changes greatly from council to council. I am truly envious of the troops and councils that I read about on this board.

In the area I am in Scouting is not very strong and has very little organization from the council level on down. Someone mentioned being surprised at losing 20 scouts. This happens around here every time ball season changes. We have some parents that come to meetings yet their boys are at ball.

Many of the one man show scoutmasters come into being just so their is some type of troop for his boy.

I'm looking for somewhere I can find a roster of the original troop. I have a relative that believes their father was a part of it.

Wow!

Thanks for the in depth reply, don't worry about the format. It seems you are familiar with the way we do it here in the U.S.

Seeing how it is a coed program do you have coed leaders at all levels?

The cool left scouting about 30 yrs. ago when all the WW II vets kids grew up and it was no longer cool to play army.

OGE's son's comments seem right on the money.

Okay, let's start with what handbook you use? What ranks do you have in your program? Is it anything like BSA? What age groups do you allow in the program and is it coed? What does your uniform look like? Is your organization all volunteer or are their paid personnel?

Just relate all you can about your program if you would.

I've not had the opportunity to attend an world jamboree but the way scouts are organized around the world interests me. I have been lucky enough to meet a man that was a second gen. scoutmaster in England. He is a Queens Scout which is the equivelant of our Eagle. He attended one of our weekly meetings and told the troop stories of scouting in England.

Is there anyone out there involved in or that knows about other scout programs beside BSA?

Had to think long and hard about this. The most important thing I learned in Woodbadge was what it's like to be a kid in a troop. As adults we tend to forget what it is like. We tend

to expect them to do things with little or no info and then we don't understand why they failed. Woodbadge let's you look at the situation from the other side, or at least it did. I'm not familiar with the new course yet.

Second best thing I learned was the importance of ceremony. Anyone that had the Woodbadge experience knows what I mean. The closing ceremony brings out great feelings among patrol members.

I'll always be an Owl!

Many times when I deal with scouts I try to put myself in their situation. If being a scout meant going to a class for 6 hours on a Sat. I believe you could count me out. That is just one of the problems I see with MBUs. Summer camp has also turned into a classroom when they offer many of these merit badges. I heard they were offering citizenship badges at camp this year. I know if I was 14 I'd really get excited about that.

Here's something to think about. Our council holds work weekends at the camp and it is counted by many as "community service" towards star and life rank.

Best method we have used is leading by example. We had a few scouters that owned full uniforms but seemed embarrased to wear them. They didn't grasp much of the other methods of scouting either. As their boys got older they faded away and the troop has improved. The scouters and the SPL make a point of wearing full uniforms and neckerchief. You can really see the difference and now someone without their neckerchief sticks out. The last SPL instituted a points system by patrol with each person present was worth 1 point, if they were fully uniformed they were worth 2 points. The patrols had to list whether members were uniformed or not when they took attendance. The results were posted on our bulletin board. Now the new SPL is looking to build on this with a possible award to the highest scoring patrol.

I have always taken it upon myself to find used uniforms which I sell to the boys with a money back guarantee. If they return the uniform to me when they are done with it I will give them their money back.

You talk about merit badge instruction. Merit badge counselors are supposed to be just that not instructors. Merit badges were designed for the boy to somewhat do on his own and use the counselor when he ran in to a problem or when he finished his requirements and the counselor review them. Many troops "teach" merit badges at the meetings and I've seen boys get the badge just by being there. I've seen some boys get the badge without even being at all the meetings covering the badge. Many of these are the hard ones meaning Eagle required like citizenship, personal management and family life.

Generally there is no problem when merit badges are done according to the book as you state using the blue card and a qualified counselor. But I see very few merit badges being done this way and more being done through MBU and camp. If not for Eagle Bound programs at camp I believe more boys would stall at 2nd. class instead of Life. When they get that Life rank their parents just assume they will get Eagle. I have had one mother say to me if her boy doesn't get his Eagle he wasted all those years in Scouts! Much of this mentality and the push for MBU's and merit and rank advancement at camp comes from council and districts "counting Eagles".

From what I've seen in our council lately and read on this board it seems that ranks and merit badges are losing their meaning. Between summer camp and merit badge universities it appears as if we are awarding badges simply to "just get the badge". I was part of a Scoutmaster conference for a boy working on his Eagle project, he's 17. He had just completed Citizenship in the Nation at our councils merit badge U. In the course of questioning I asked him how many Senators there were from our state and who they were. Needless to say he had no clue. I then asked him at the next 2 meetings and he still did not know the answer. I see merit badge requirement sheets returned from MBU and summer camp that show the requirements as completed yet the scout does not know the material. When I bring this up and try to make the scout "earn" the badge or rank the parents get upset. Why have we become an organization in a society that is more interested in the quantity than the quality?

I said that they would stay because most care more about this organization and would stay to keep it going. Public schools employ gay teachers and no one sees a threat to their kids over this. People aren't pulling their kids out of school because of this. I'm not even going to try and judge morality. But I do know that I don't feel threatened by gays and neither should my son. I'm afraid that if some that said they would leave were the moral judges they would have very few leaders in their new moral boy scouts.

I travel approx. 25 mi. to go to roundtable. I do my best to make as many as I can. Most times there is no real program, Many times I provide the program at the last minute. If a troop was run like this they wouldn't have good attendance which is probably why our roundtables have poor attendance. There was even one time that roundtable was called off but the Boy Scout rountable leader didn't know and he drove 40min. to the meeting and found no one there.

Now I'll answer your question. I like the fellowship and the discussions with other Scoutmasters.

I dislike the disorganization and lack of a planned meeting.

The knowledge of dates and events is the most useful thing gained from roundtable.

Characteristics of the roundtable staff that I like, they're nice guys.

Characteristics I would change, I would dedicate them more to roundtable. This would be impossible because they hold too many positions to be able to concentrate on one.

Feature I would add to roundtable would be a calendar of roundtable programs. This way you could encourage other SM and ASM to attend certain meetings that had necessary content such as youth protection. I have been to roundtable where the whole meeting was Boy Scout and Cub Scout meeting combined to work on your re-charter line by line. I can guarantee that anyone that attended that meeting that didn't have to fill out a re-charter felt like they wasted their time.

I already travel about as far as I feel I need to. Our district is split between 3 counties, and our county is split between 2 districts. Our county is in the middle and the southernmost county, which has the most troops, is where the meetings are held. The northernmost county is like a red headed stepchild, they are never at a meeting and aren't treated like they are part of the district.

I attend at least 6 roundtables a year, but our district doesn't have one every month. There is no meeting when there is the district banquet, and there are no meetings in the summer.

Bob White, a question for you. Are you in a council that has an indian name?

Yarrow,

From experience I have to agree with you. I have seen a boy that didn't go camping with the troop for 3yrs. get his Eagle. He did go to summer camp for 1 reason, that's right , he needed an Eagle required merit badge! He's also an OA brotherhood member.

I am a registered Boy Scout leader, but my wife is registered in both. The Girl Scouts don't seem to have much of a program that includes "outing". They have a lot more rules and regulations that do nothing to make the program better for the girls. When my daughter was registered to a troop (now defunct) the troop leader wouldn't take a personal check for re-registration. She said it was GSA policy for her not to take personal checks. We questioned that at council and found out she was correct.

My girl goes to camp every year at our council camp. It is a very weak program and attendance is low (30-60 girls a week). At our local Boy Scout camp the program is fair but attendance is as high as 500 boys a week.

Boy Scouts are struggling in our area, but Girl Scouts has died. It doesn't seem as the council is doing anything to resurrect it. No one from GSA goes to the schools, they just hand out a flyer at school and have interested girls mail them in. There are no troops still active in our town which includes 4 elementary schools and 2 middle schools.

I'm sure it's strong in other areas, but aside from cookie sales I've never seen the GSA do anything.

tjhammer, In your first post you state that the BSA excludes anyone that doesn't find homosexuality immoral. In your second post you list churches that were against the BSA stated policy. If the BSA enforced their policy wouldn't all the charters to those churches be withdrawn?

I would stay! And so would most of the people that say they wouldn't.

Sctmom,

I think you've got it, it is about the numbers and the money. I have read many of your posts and you have a very open mind that can see what is real. The only threat that national sees in gays is the loss og the LDS troops and other troops chartered to churches that take the "anti-gay" stance.

I just came home from my district banquet. While there I asked our district commissioner about any active Venture Crews in our district. Ther are 6 crews with a charter and yet none even have meetings. I have come to find out that Venturing was a big push by national so the councils pushed the DE's to start Venture units.

The reason I am searching for an active Venture Crew is to try to retain some of the older boys, some over 18. I understand that the age for Venturing is 14-21 which would help retain boys in Scouting and keep them active in OA until 21.

Are there any "true" Venture Crews that are active out there? What type of leadership do you have, and is it co-ed? What activities are you doing, only the adventures ones. What ages are in the crew?

Merlyn,

You never commented on my last post. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

I'm looking for a company that can produce neckerchief slides. I have an old one that is an OA pocketflap style which is made out of metal and is enameled. I would like to get some made for our Fall Fellowship. Anyone have any ideas?