Eagledad

>>We see the board of review differently. I see it as a review of what scouting has shared with the scout and what the scout has shared with scouting. Some see it as a challenge or gauntlet for the scout to run. Others use it to see if the scout can think on his feet.

HI All

You have to motivate scouts to do something, or not do something. We allow scout to talk so long as they don't disrupt other scouts. Once that happens, they get a warning. From there its a matter of creativity. The best thing that worked for me was a midnight hike. No one yells or gets upset, we just ask the scouts to get their shoes on and go for a hike. Along the way we talk about the stars, night critters and so on. Eventally at a quiet place far from camp (about a mile for me) we sit and spend a few minutes on Friendly, Curtious and Kind. And obediance. You know. Then we hike back to camp.

I never seem to have trouble with that group again. But if you do, then maybe up an hour eariler to collect fire wood or start the fire. Since they kept us up, it's only fair they allow us to sleep in.

If you have the patience, this works pretty good. Like I said no yelling, no getting up set, just a quiet way to motivate a change. Has worked most of the time. Usually I allow the SPL to give two three warnings, but after that, I get the boys up and tell them to "take a hike".

Scouting Cheers

Barry

Hi Bob, Thanks for the reply.

>>I have never pushed hard for Scoutmasters to do the First Class emphasis program..... The BSA pushes hard for it..... I push hard for Scoutmasters to manage the BSA's program correctly.

Hi All

One of the adults in our crew was complaining how he keeps sliding off his Therm-a-rest. I've seen this brought up before, but since I don't use one, I don't remember how to fix that.

Andy Ideas?

Barry

Hi Mike

Just for fun, would you mind giving us your list for a 10 day trip. I would enjoy comparing. Do you have any tricks to shave a few ounces?

Barry

>>i feel like I shouldnt have to constantly remind them what they should be doing

Hey thanks guys. I might be able to trim a little fat off that pack if I look hard, starting with an LCD flashlight.

But I was just looking at the Philmont guide and it suggest 20 to 25 lbs with basically the same gear. They also suggest max pack weight to be 30% of my body weight. Hmmm, I think I feel my knees starting to hurt Mark.

These are great days. I love this scouting stuff.

Barry

Hi All

I've never weighed my pack in past yearse, but I guess I'm getting old and I'm watching the ounces a lot closer. Our Philmont crew met lastnight for a final pack check.

Without water, food or Philmont crew gear, my pack weighs about 35 lbs. Is that good, average or bad?

I'm guessing another 15 to 20 lbs for the rest from Philmont.

Barry

Hi Ryan

Good Stuff Bob. Also, what is your program? Sixth graders require a busy FUN program, not long lecturing ones. Are you setting any kind of goals for the group? For example, what would you like to improve in your Patrols and patrol leaders? Setting up camp, breaking camp? Teach them how and then have games to see who does it the best and the fastest. Can they do this on their own or do they require a little pushing or pulling. What about meals, or knots or lashings. Pick a subject, I was just reading about orientation and five-mile hike. That can even be a meeting. So, sit down with the PLC and SM and set a goal of teaching learning something like orientation. Your program is teaching the skill for about 15 minutes and then doing a game to practice that skill. Our Troop likes to go to a local park where we set up a course. Others do neighborhoods and so on. Get away from your normal meeting place and go to the park, lake or even the field behind the church.

I get my scouts in the habit of asking, "Was that FUN?", "IF not, WHY?". "HOW do we CHANGE it?". It might not be that they are hyper sixth graders so much, it could be a bit of boredom. So have some fun and build a FUN program. Ask them how to make your five-minute Opening fun, your program theme fun and the games. Use your handbooks, and take each step in SMALL fun bite size chunks. Make the Flag ceremony something new and fun. Closing the same. Make sure you have a SM minute, it might be boring for you, but as a SM, I love them. OK, just for fun, tell you SM he has ONE minute and time him.

Once you get to that point, you will find your scouts looking forward to scouts and wanting more.

OK, what questions do you have from these few post?

Barry

Hi Eagle Foot

What ever you choose, stay or not, you have improved the program by bringing this problem up front. I hope you stay.

My prayers and thoughts are this burdon will be taken off of you.

Barry

Hi Bob

Good discussion.

On the First year scouts to first class, you push pretty hard for the SM to control this part of the Scouts experience. But I think this is off topic and we can continue it under a different subject.

On the Youth Protection, there we several different responses to the one question. Most gave the same text reference to their own answer, but no one seem to have THE answer and it was left to how each individual interpret the text and their training. I think this is the best you can expect nationally and I think that is expected by National as well. So if we vary in our interpretation of the training material, then how does one go from Council to Council and maintain quality. I think it has to come from other sources in the District all working together.

You gave a few "Good" reasons for starting this post, but after working at the unit, district and council level positions, I'm not sure you can get much better results than you already have unless you make every course an online course where the human element falls out. Even then interpretation becomes personal.

So what is plan B to your plan A for improving training. My suggestion is pushing National to look at Commissioners. That is not and easy solution to me, but I have gone through many exercises looking to improve certain aspects of membership, training and even better information to units. While I use to have very little respect for commissioners, I've learned it was the quality of our local program I disrespected, not the designed position itself. I keep finding myself adding new positions to fix problems like the BSA added the unit trainer. Then I wonder, why not try to use what we have?

My plan B is get the commissioners back to work. National is changing cub and troop program, so change the commissioner program to work better.

I like the motivation of your post because to some degree I have already been there. But I've tried much of what you propose and I believe we are close to humanly possible to getting as good as it gets with training, on a Council or larger size scale. So I'm just suggesting other options along with your options.

Sorry for the long way around, sometimes I tend to paint the picture before I present it with a frame so that folks can see my motivations.

If you could add a plan B to your Plan A for these problems, what would it be?

Scouting Cheers

Barry

Hi Laura

Our prayers are with you.

Barry

>>I have never seen an eagle factory that was lead by youth. Eagle factories are the by-product of adult egotism.

You cannot have the majority of your scouts working on the same merit badges at the same time, and running merit badge classes during troop meetings while making any claim to being a functioning scouting program.

>>A good trainer teaches the BSA program not the program they lead as a leader.>or if they did get chosen, the topics they presented were controlled by the training coordinator.

>>When the boys know there is always going to be an adult there to "bail them out" or worse, override their decisions, they tend to get lazy or disinterested.

>>Why do you think homosexuals should or should not be banned from Scouting?

>>. I also think it builds more positive relationships between the youths and adults. Shouldn't "...help other people at all times..." apply to us, too?

>>Just look at the wide variety of methods expressed on this board from similarly trained leaders all using the same book. The reason I believe is that too many trainers each alter the course "just a little" then the person who is trained alters it a little more, and so on down the line until what happens at the unit level resembles scouting in uniform only.

$89.99 at Campmor. A little pricy for a stove and we only bought two at first to try them out. But after six month testing by the Venture Patrol, we got one for every patrol. Well worth it. They make up for the prices that you can use them for your high-adventure treks.

We had so many problems with the Coleman Dual-Fuel Camping stoves. We had several fires from over pumping where no one was hurt, but they sure woke us up. We converted to propane for safey, but they still seem to require constant maintenance. We had to take a spare every campout. About thsi time the troop wanted to get away from the heavy patrol boxes, so we decided to find a new stoves. We stumbled on to Coleman Exponent.

Buy one and let each patrol try it out for a campout. I think you will like them. It takes little while for the scouts to relize how little flame they need to boil water. Our patrols use to go through two bottles a campout, now some can get two campouts out of one bottle. We generally go through about three for a week of wilderness camping. That is useing two burners most of the time.

Barry

HI

We also use the 2 burner Expeditions. Our Troop converted to Troop Light five years ago to get rid of the patrol boxes. We wanted to be a troop that could pack everyting to our campouts.

We have use seven of these stoves every month for four years. They have also been to Philmont, Pecos Wilderness, Spanish Peaks and a few other Backpaking treks, Northern tier Canoe trips and loaned out for personal campouts. They have worked well at 12000 ft and 10 degrees below zero. They have been stepped on, kick on, tossed around, left in the rain and dropped in the lake and all seven of our stoves still work great. I believe they are the safest stove a scout could use.

I'm not trying to sell the stove, just give you our experience with them. If anyone is at Philmont between June 19 and 30th, look for Troop 386 and we will show it to you. Great Boy Scout backpacking stove.

Have a great scouting week.

Barry

>>Small Scouts & big knives don't mix well.

Good Morning Ed.

What safety issue do they state? I once ask a camp director in another council about the sheath knife restriction. He said it was a Council Policy and did not know why. Nothing was said about safety.

We once had a discussion on the safety issue of sheaths hanging on belts, but it was brought out that many adults and scouts are allowed to wear the pocket tools, even flash lights in sheaths.

I not challenging you Ed, but saying safety doesnt make sense. I feel it must only be a response to image. I rarely carry a knife and only a small pocket knife if Im alone in the woods. So its not personal. I beleive sheath knives to be as safe, if not a little safer than some of the pocket knives that we consider acceptable.

If a camp thinks sheath knives are less safe, fine. But explain how and why. They permit saws, which have the most injuries of scouting woods tools, and axes, which require more skill. But not a sheath knife?

Thanks for your reply, have a great scouting day.

Barry

Hi Purcelce

We had a district that did something like this under the backpacking theme. All the patrols got up, packed up and hiked to different events with the last event setting up camp again. I wasn't there, so I don't remember the events or how they judge the scouts, but each patrol got in a two or three miles in the day at Slippery Fall Scout Ranch. It was planned and led by backpacking Ventruing Crews.

Scouting Cheers

Barry

>>The summer camp we attend has a ban on sheath knives.

I saw where the question was specific to Bob White and Desteele. I was not trying to grandstand, so please accept my apology. I await your wisdom as well.

Scouting cheers.

Barry