Eagledad

Hmm, how should a troop deal with the scout who doesn’t take a turn cooking? Or cleaning? Or tearing down camp? Or……..? Or…….? There is a method behind the madness. But, some youth just aren’t ready to be part team program. They eventually will figure it out, or leave. But the program shouldn’t change for the rest of the scouts. Barry

This is a big problem, I agree. I believe a big part of the problem is adult leaders who never had a youth scouting experience. Without the experience of adventure and the social dynamics of camping in the woods, these adults have to rely on measurable experiences, which is advancement. Advancement drives annual schedules and shapes scouting activities. Character development is a function of rank and advancement sing-offs, not scouts’ choices judged within the interpretations off the law. Theses adults are afraid to let any scout not earn the Eagle. And you can’t blame these adults, trai

As a SM, I was called at least once a week by a parent with an opinion of something they saw that bothered them. Sometimes more than 1 a week, rarely less. And you would be amazed of what bothers parents. Every SM has a strong opinion to someone, especially if they firm with how the program is run. All I can say is if SMs, or strong leaders, don’t learn the art of listening, they will have continued frustration and drama. Add the skills of patience and humility because sometimes the SM, or strong leader, is wrong. Barry

For troops that want the benefits of scout growth from patrol method, summer camp gives the scouts the most growth of the year because of the intense outdoor program in the number of days forces scouts the habits of servant lifestyles. However, that growth requires older scouts to work along side the younger scouts. Young scouts learn by watching older scout mentors and older scout grow comes from mentoring (NOT Babysitting) the younger scouts. Troops with a program of older scout mentors working with younger scouts in a patrol method environment typically have a good attendance of older scout

Yes, but he was a paid professional. I don’t know how much he can no. Barry

The best DE I ever worked with was a retired engineer. He was also a Silver Beaver with a very good 20 history as a Scoutmaster. He was an idea guy, so we got along well and started a few district activities. What did him in was being assigned the council summer camp coordinator. It was a thankless job that took him away from his wife too much. The problem with any volunteer type organization is talented workers keep getting more responsibilities until they are sucked dry. I’m sure our DE would have stayed another 10 years if he hadn’t taken the summer camp coordinator job. Barry

The situation isn't just Scouting, but any organization that relies on volunteers to run the program. And, it is a double complex realty because volunteers are generally not trained or have expert skills for their expected tasks. In fact, volunteer work IS on the job training. Which is why units with adults who had a youth scouting experience are usually far ahead of units with no youth scouting experience. As for volunteers with a military experience, they typically respect the leadership a bit more than non military experienced volunteers. The most entertaining units to watch are the o

I had a similar situation with my first SPL. I wasn't really happy with his performance for my expectations. So, I took him out for pizza before the meeting so we could talk. After discussing family and other light topics, I asked how he though he was doing as SPL. I expected him to hemhal around without much details, and that is where I would discuss his performance. But, he instead broke a huge smile and started telling me (bragging really) about all the things he had done and was improving on. After ten minutes of his enlighting reflection, I had to admit he was doing a really good job and

I figure a Scoutmasters needs at least 3 years to start to understand the general workings of Patrol Method. And a lifetime to really know how those workings push young adults to grow in character. Seems you reached that 3 year mark. We also built our patrol around 10 scouts with the idea that at least half would show at campouts. But, we often had 2 man patrols and even 1 man patrols once in a while. We found the scouts like 1 and 2 man patrols because the individualism is adventure and they look forward to the challenges. And, we found the other patrols will look after them. Our 1 man a

Don’t you mean in their best efforts.

Our ASMs were provided a scout to brief them of the PLC meetings and help train the new ASMs to the troop program on campouts. We created the idea to help the ASMs to work equally with scouts as team members to prevent the common problem of adults treating scouts as youth. We didn’t do a trained patch, but the ASMs were required to get Woods Tools training which was signed off by the scouts. Barry

I learned from experience that behavior discipline, uniforms, and advancement are the most challenging parts of todays scouting for adults because they are the most controlled parts by the adults. They are challenging because adults look only at the technical aspects of the scout’s actions and misapply, misjudge and misunderstand how to used the actions for developing values of making decisions. For example, BORs are by design the only process in a Scout run program to be run only by adults. Does that make sense? Well yes, the SM conference is a adult process. But, skills are part of the

If I didn’t know better, I would say this was my troop. We run exactly the same way including each SPL doing an annual plan. I agree the committee supports the scouts program. But, I also believe they insure the Scoutmasters program is in sync gwith the program vision. Every scoutmaster has a different way of doing things, so program consistency is the committee’s responsibility. Barry

I'm not quite sure what all that means. Who should look at the mirror? Leadership is a standard BOR question on most BORs all the way to Eagle. Any question from an intimidating adult could be perceived as loaded. So, the issue isn't the question, it is the stressful BOR environment. And, if it is stressful for one scout, it is likely a problem for several. So, yes, something has to be fixed. And, it appears to me the SM is dodging the problem taking it on her own. That is not how to Fix the problem. The program has to be safe for all the scouts. Not just the one. I'm not giving a S

As a retired SM of many hundreds of scouts and the trainer, advisor, and mentor of hundreds of Scoutmasters, I put the blame of this situation 100 percent on the Scoutmaster. First, I have said many times on this forum that I am not a fan of the current BOR process for two reasons; First, it interrupts the scout run process with a totally adult procedure that scouts could do themselves. Second, I don't like the adult run BOR for this very situation. The Troop brings young naive scouts and helps them build a trust of youth leadership, THEN throws them in room of adult strangers who asked

Most folks here know that I am a anti Tiger person because I found through a lot of research that Tigers strangles the ALL the other ages because it burns out the adults. Lions will only push that issue faster. If National feels peronoid about membership at the toddler age, then they need to look at a seperate program like the GSUSA Daisies that takes the burdon of toddler maturity away from the pack, and provides a divide where adults can say, No!, I need a break. We changed our Tiger program to one meeting a month led by parents with the assistance of a pack adult mentor. We m

Wow, great discussion. I call the scouting world in this discussion real life at a boy's (youth's) size. Scouting is assumed safe because the program is presented so that scouts are physically safe. But, I taught in the adult classes that scouting is safe because a scout is safe to make wrong decisions without judgement forcing correction. Watching a scout learn from their decisions without the reaction of judging and correcting is the most challenging part of the adult leaders responsibilities. I admit that I did it wrong more often than I did it right. Barry

The one time a close is appropriate is when the culture process is going the wrong direction. When culture affects 100 scouts, then the class is the quick fix for correction. You are right that the MB card is an opportunity for a discussion and teaching, mostly with brand new scouts. But, we found that the lesson learned from MB processing didn't translate to signing off other scouts' handbooks. The issue there is that the signing off advancement incorrectly isn't discovered until the other scouts have a conference. And, usually several scouts are victims of the incorrect signoff processi

And SSScout makes a good point with the hen scratching. We ended up creating a 10 minute class to teach scouts how to fill out handbooks, merit badge cards, and other documents so that their print was legible with correct dates. I am a full believer in NOT making these task easier for the scouts. District Merit Badge Colleges set bad examples to their units, who in-turn follow with bad habits in their MB process. Barry

National, historically, has a reputation for using data to justify self serving objectives when the opposite trends were closer to reality. Don’t visualize the fine folks at National as professionals working to serve the noble reputation of the Scouting vision. In fact don’t think of them as professional. National likely has some of the data, but aren’t making it easily available because it isn’t to their advantage, both in general operation and public observation. Add that they have been very focused on saving the organization from bankruptcy the last couple of years. I don’t belie

Your past post over the years say you do think you know why. Do your research ShootingSports, I did a lot of membership research in the past that often enlightsens and corrects the forum list. Good data is worth its weight in gold because it gives you direction for your program. Barry

Interesting, but I have a hard time swallowing scouts who are passionate enough of the scouting program to make a statement about their opinion of the uniform acting in such a disrespectful manner. It’s me, but I’ve never seen scouts behave like this for a cause. Most scouts want to approach difficult subjects in a mature scout-like manner. As for individualism, the present uniform does that quite well. Take a fully uniformed First Class rank patrol leader and stand him next to a fully uniformed Eagle rank SPL from a different state, and the observer would know a lot about the individuali

I can’t agree with knot that that wearing a tutu and tights is a highly appropriate way to bring attention to their opinion of the uniform. Highly? It certainly isn’t an intellectual approach to the conversation. Barry

Well hold on there, are saying their action wasn’t self serving? Giving permission on one bad action, no matter how small or big, leads to more bad actions. Uniform interpretations are lame excuses. The handbook gives the scouts their guidelines. Barry

Spending Capital for the purpose of correcting a scout’s motivation behind bad decisions is the main responsibility of the SM. As everyone agrees, their dress was inappropriate and just plain disrespectful to the group. What level of inappropriate and disrespectful actions are we to consider a starting place? Barry