DYB-Mike

Ozemu,

Sorry to hear of the recess, I hope its brief.

Your situation is my biggest fear. Our Pack is going to loose some of its most involved leaders at Cross Over this year (May). One leader who is still active would have liked to have left last year when her son crossed over, but stayed as a temporary measure until folks stepped up. As she is becoming more involved at the troop level her pack involvement is waning.

We have many good folks coming into to Pack but it seems nobody wants to take that step and put on the uniform and take responsibility for a den or committee position. We have approached several directly but, with one exception, no luck. Dont get me wrong, many of our adults help out, but its a tell me what to do and Ill do it role. We need more folks in positions of responsibility to be able to organize and tell those helpful people what to do.

We have about 38 active boys, 9 of which will be crossing over in May. I dont think the Pack will fold but without the level of leadership and adult involvement that we have had in the past I fear the quality of our program will suffer and, with it, our ability to attract and retain new cubs.

We have had another pack in our town almost fold for lack of adult leadership so I would guess the problem youve experienced is not uncommon.

YIS,

Mike

Hi Adam Two

I think its safe to say that Pack Meetings should open with a flag ceremony and there should be a retiring of the colors at the end as well. Our Pack generally rotates the flag ceremony amongst the Dens.

Our ceremony is usually nothing complicated: The boys bring the U.S. and Pack flags in (U.S. flag ahead, never touching the ground), set them in the stands (the U.S. flag should be placed on what would be the facing audiences left), and form a line behind the flags while our Cubmaster leads in the Pledge of Allegiance and the Cub Scout Promise. The Color Guard does not participate in the Pledge or the Promise, they simply stand at attention (doesnt always work out as the boys are so used to reciting the Pledge and Promise they just do it automatically). Once those activities are over the Color Guard is dismissed and they file to their seats. Retiring the colors is even simpler: the Color Guard returns, take up the flags and, with the U.S. flag leading, troops the flags out of the room while everybody stands.

At our Blue and Gold my Tiger Den performed the Color Guard. Each flag required two Tigers. They did very well, no goofing around, and I was very proud of them. Again the ceremony itself was simple.

Occasionally you may want to include something related to the Pack Meeting or event theme. There are tons of ideas on the web for flag ceremony add-ons. Baloos Bugle is a great place to start. Ive gotten several ideas from that source. The link is http://usscouts.org/bbugle.asp. These add-ons require a little practice so if you assign a den to a specific pack meeting or event they can practice at their den meeting(s).

YIS,

Mike

A lot of great ideas here!

One thing weve done is have a Pack level Belt Loop University. Weve held it outdoors at a local park so we could include some of the sports, including fishing (there was water access). Tables were set up for things like chess.

Another good idea is a fishing derby. Weve done them a local spots in the past. This year Ive found a state park a little farther afield that has hiking trails, fishing and picnic areas so Im going to promote this as a full day combo summer event.

Weve also done ice cream socials both in doors and out. Chip in for the ice cream and toppings (or have the Pack pay if you can afford it) and let the kids make their own. Have some activities prepared for before and after the ice cream. This makes a great meet-and-greet recruiting venue as well.

YIS

Mike

Hi Folks!

We had our Star Wars Blue and Gold this past weekend and it was great!

The folks form the 501st Legion, N.E. Division, were wonderful with the boys. The costumes were so authentic and very impressive. There were even three Eagle Scouts in the group!

We had a basic Pack Meeting with awards and skits, Den displays, and a small Star Wars memorabilia display, next had dinner (pizza and salad served at the Cantina), then distributed Star Wars coloring pages and word searches to keep the boys busy while the 501St got ready. The 501st made their entrance and, after Den photos, played Star Wars bingo (with prizes). Darth Vader called the numbers. The other members of the 501st mingled with the crowd, posing for pictures and answering questions. The evening ended with a Pack picture with the 501st and desserts (including light saber pretzel sticks, marshmallow R2D2s, and a Star Wars decorated cake).

There were rough spots. The pizza delivery was delayed, but got there before folks got too restless. Then we set off the fire alarm when we attempted to use a fog machine for the 501sts entrance. It was necessary to evacuate the building for a brief period, but we managed to keep the 501st away from the boys. We plan to make lemonade from that lemon and give the boys a fire drill patch at a future meeting.

Despite the rough spots it was a most memorable event. The only downside how do you follow that up next year!

The 501St has posted photos of our Blue and Gold on their site:

http://www.501neg.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=1058

By the way, a hearty thank you to poster Pack378 whos post back last January 2008 inspired us to do our own Star Wars Blue and Gold.

And yes, we did do a special patch but stayed away from the characters.

YIS

Mike

We hold ours in our Charter Organizations (Church) Hall. Were fortunate in that the Hall has upper and lower floors with the upper having a stage and open space and the lower having kitchen facilities and a smaller open space. There is also another space on the lower level that we occasionally use. It costs us nothing to use the space. This is the same space that we hold our Pack Meetings and some of our Den Meetings. All of this space is not always available as we share it with several other groups, including the Troop. I assume your Pack Meeting space is either too small or you want to do it somewhere else to make it special. If you think the Pack Meeting space can handle it then decoration and a program different from the normal Pack Meeting can make it special and pizza or a pot luck menu can make it cheap.

Some of our Blue and Gold is subsidized through the annual dues but the bulk comes from ticket sales. We usually charge $10 per adult with the scout and children under a certain age free. It sounds like a lot but weve never had a complaint that Im aware of. This year, given the state of the economy and through some scaling back, we are charging $10 each for the first two adults, $5 each for all other adults in the group, and no charge for the scout and all children. The biggest costs for us are the food (catered in the past, although were just doing pizza and salad this year) and entertainment (animal handlers, dragon dancers for Chinese New Year theme).

YIS,

Mike

Ever since I was shown the wonder of dryer lint as a fire starter I use it for camp fires (when I can), our patio fireplace and the fireplaces in our house. I use it with some tinder (twigs and bark) gathered from the back yard and I ignite it with flint and steel. I have never noticed an offensive smell of any kind. Maybe its masked by the burning tinder?

Jblake47, I acknowledge your point about the pioneers, but I look at it from the view of recycling. The stuff would just go into the garbage anyway so why not leave no trace of this waste product of modern technology? Its thrifty like the candle stubs too.

YIS,

Mike

This coming Sunday our Charter Organization, a Congregational church, will be holding its annual special Scout Sunday Service. The Troop takes the lead in this and, in addition to usher duties, several of the boys will do readings and one will deliver a short speech on What Scouting Means to Me. My son, a new crossover to the Troop, will be doing one of the readings. Some of the leaders are called up and recognized and, if this year follows last year, there is a symbolic Presentation of the Charter.

I believe last year was the first year the Pack was involved in the Scout Sunday Service. The cubs arent involved in the readings or any of the other ceremonial aspects, but are there, in the Pastors words, to be inspired by the actions of the older boys. I have another son in the Pack of which Im a leader.

My family is not a member of our CO church (were Roman Catholics) and Im torn between attending this ceremony and attending my own church in uniform with my sons, but unfortunately the services conflict. Our CO is very accommodating with space and such and the Troop and Pack are long established there so I opt for the CO Service as a show of respect and support. As Greaves noted its interesting to experience the difference between a Roman Catholic Mass and a Congregational Service. It just so happens that our Parish Church and our CO Church hold an annual interfaith service around Thanksgiving. My sons and I went in uniform to the last interfaith service and I tried to encourage the rest of the Pack to do so (many are in our Parish Church) but we were the only ones who attended.

YIS

Mike

After our Pack had its planning meeting last August and laid out the Pack Meetings and other events, I put together my Tiger Den Meeting schedule for the entire Cub Scout year. The schedule included the meeting dates, times, activities and also included the Pack Meeting dates for convenience. I meet Sunday afternoons and not only did I still have to compete with kids sports (hockey), but also with the N.E. Patriots. I thought it wise to go to the Patriots website and accommodate my meeting times to the games. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you want to look at it) they didnt make it into the post season. My schedule was on an Excel spreadsheet that I emailed to parents. Ive had to amend it several times to accommodate changes in activities, cancelled and rescheduled meetings. Not only does it help the parents but it also helps me keep focused on what needs to be done.

I had originally aimed to award the Tiger rank at the Blue and Gold, but due to circumstances that isnt going to happen. No big deal - theres no law that says ranks need to be awarded at the Blue and Gold. Maybe its your Packs tradition (not ours), but at this point the important thing is to get your son's Den back on track so the boys can complete their advancement requirements. The plus side to awarding the rank at a later date is that the boys will be the stars of the show, not just one of a number of dens advancing, and you can do a special ceremony just for them.

CNYScouter, Since both the Den Leader and yourself are in the same boat as far as schedules go could you two run the den in tandem (one as an Assistant), each covering for the other when the schedules get crazy? Are there any other candidates with more stable schedules who could take over the den?

By the way, have these boys earned/received their Bobcat? If not, thats something you can do in a day and maybe award the Bobcat, as well as any beads or belt loops, at the Blue and Gold.

YIS,

Mike

Sorry I came to the party late.

I agree that the cubs do not have to memorize and be tested on the Bobcat points. It wasnt clear to me though (and if I missed it, sorry) just how far you cubmaster intended to go with his ceremony.

I dont think there is anything wrong with the boys being asked, as part of the Bobcat award ceremony, to do a repeat after me recital of the Promise, Law and so forth. If shy Johnny is just standing there while this goes on he should not be singled out just let it go.

As for questions, I dont see anything wrong with the cubmaster asking, OK, who can tell me what WEBELOS means? or Can anyone tell me how the pack helps the cub scout grow? If there are no takers, then the cubmaster explains. If there are a couple of smarties in the group (and there usually are) who answer (or try to answer) the question, then so much the better. This might encourage the shy ones to join in.

All of the above should be done in an easy, no pressure manner. If your cubmaster has a Bobcat Board of Review in mind then I agree that that is inappropriate and unnecessary.

YIS

Mike

Im not a copyright lawyer either and I might be using the wrong terminology but I knew enough to realize that I just couldnt go out and have Star Wars patches made. Im sure any reputable vendor wouldnt have made them anyway.

I was hoping to hear from Souters that have had Star Wars patches made to see who was responsible for getting permission. I wasnt sure if some patch manufacturers had a standing license to produce such patches due to the popularity of the films and characters.

There are plenty of generic Star Wars patches out there. If a custom patch comes to naught Ill guess well go that route.

We are considering Pizza the Hut! Another treat we found are little light sabers: stick pretzels dipped in red or blue chocolate with the ends wrapped in foil.

This is going to be a blast!

Thanks for the responses.

YIS

Mike

Hi Folks!

The thread I spun this from inspired our Pack to do a Star Wars Blue & Gold as well. Weve got the 501st and found someone who has a functioning R2D2 replica who will come as well. Were still planning hopefully itll be a blast!

One of the things wed like to do is have a special patch made. Obviously Star Wars and the characters are under copyright, but I remember seeing a few Yoda CSPs in the past (I cant recall the Council) so its apparently been done.

A cursory look at several patch manufacturers websites didnt turn up anything Star Wars so before I began a more exhaustive search I though I would turn to the collective wisdom of the Forums to see if anyone had any guidance or suggestions.

Thanks!

YIS

Mike

Greetings!

Our Pack increased dues this year from $45 to $55 for all cubs. We also sell the popcorn and do other fundraisers such as selling chocolate bars (made by a local chocolatier, yum!) at various venues and run a concession stand at the District Pinewood Derby.

Dues and fundraising primarily cover registrations, rechartering, including the Boys Life subscriptions, awards (belt loops, activity pins, patches), some refreshments and miscellaneous supplies. It also covers some activities, such as Klondike Derby registration for the Webelos, most of the Blue and Gold expense, and Pinewood Derby cars for each Cub. Most Council sponsored special events and other special events (camp-ins at zoos and the like) are paid for by the parents.

Some of our Den Leaders assess den dues for supplies as needed.

YIS

Mike

Scouting Now vs. then

Then - honest people, no privacy issues NOW YP because some people have sick minds. New safety guidelines. New scouting world. Less on safety of ticks and snakes, more on cyber bullies and internet predators. Sick world sometimes

SctDad, maybe Im misunderstanding you but when I read that comment all I could think was (1) apparently scouters today arent honest people, and (2) pedophiles just suddenly appeared at the turn of the new millennium.

There were sickos in 1968 as there are in 2008; the difference is no one talked about them back then, either out of fear or embarrassment, and they certainly didnt get the media coverage like they do today. A good many of the cases in the clergy sex abuse scandal were decades old, taking place back in the good old days.

If anything, I think the new scouting world of Youth Protection and two-deep leadership is simply putting protections in place that should have existed years ago anyway and should not be considered a reflection on the honesty of scouts and scouters of today.

As to the topic, I think the advice to make dad put his money where his mouth is, so to speak, and use his past scouting experience to plan and coordinate den or pack events or help out in some other way is good. His reaction to that should give an indication of where hes really coming from.

YIS,

Mike

Melgamatic,

I feel your pain. I went through something similar with a Committee Member of our Pack a short time ago. Some of it was personal (outside of the Pack) but many Pack leaders shared my negative opinion and distaste. Things really became heated between this person and other leaders on several occasions and I almost wrote this Forum with the same question you just asked (I actually did ask it at a Pow Wow session on Pack Administration).

Fortunately the situation corrected itself when the son crossed over. We are fairly cordial now and I must say, to their credit, this person was actually very helpful to the Pack despite the personality problems.

Anyway, I believe that if you want her to leave youre going to have to enlist the aid of your COR, especially if shes a formal leader (she submitted an application that the CO signed). The Charter Organization owns the unit and they can hire and fire leaders. If shes simply a parent with a son in the Pack the Cubmaster and Committee Chair (buddy system) can ask her to leave, but if shes intent on staying for whatever twisted reason (who wants to be where they are not wanted?) you need to have the CO behind you. If things got crazy and she refused to leave it would be the CO that could take more serious action to ensure that she not return to their Pack and their property.

I feel sorry for the boy in all this. The boys can suffer in situations like this. Thats part of the reason I chose to just grin and bear it in my situation. However, if the kids as big a jerk as the mother then thats another story.

Again, good luck!

YIS

Mike

Hi bkale,

Never stop recruiting!

Im a new Tiger Den Leader myself this year (also served, and still do, as Assistant Cubmaster for over a year now).

Ive had my Tiger son distribute Join My Den cards to his class at school. I got the card template from a software disc distributed by our Council. Presumably it comes from National. I got several recruits that way.

I teach my Tiger sons religious education class at church and I shamelessly attached a card advertising the Pack (and my den) to the class schedules distributed to the parents of the boys in my class. I did get one recruit that way!

Word of mouth has worked well for us. Encourage the parents of the Tigers and older scouts to talk up your Pack to their friends with boys of suitable age.

Hold a Pack Open House on the day of your Pack Meeting. Our Pack has done that twice with some success. The first time we had the Open House simultaneous with the Pack Meeting which caused much confusion and split the attention of the leaders. The second time we had the Open House portion an hour before the Pack Meeting and invited potential scouts to stay for the meeting. See if you can get something exciting lined up we had a member of our local polices K-9 unit come with his dog. Dont forget den displays, refreshments, and try to get some Pinewood Derby cars to show very popular with the boys.

As for the Tiger den meetings at this point, you say that the Den Leader is very attentive to what needs to be done and running a fun program, but you also say that one boy is ready to quit due to lack of enthusiasm. Something doesnt add up. You may want to meet with the Den Leader and discuss how the program is being presented at the meetings and is there room for improvement. Do the boys consider it a play-date because all they do is play? Are there structured activities and is the Tiger advancement program being followed? Why do you think only two of three boys show at a time? Has the Den Leader been trained?

Im aware of some Packs in my area that have multiple dens meeting at the same time and location and this seems to work for them. If you have access to the facilities it might be something to consider.

YIS

Mike

As I read the other comments I realized I left something important out.

If you choose to call her on it, and I think you should, dont do it by yourself! The buddy system protects adults as well. Make sure you have at least one other person with you when you approach her on this issue. The Committee Chair or Treasurer (if not both) makes the most sense since the accusations reflect on their leadership and trustworthiness.

YIS

Mike

Hi Melgamatic,

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! I wonder if shes given any thought to that she may have cost her son and his buddies a free fieldtrip or some such benefit by her actions.

Just curious, did the Council rep move the sales? I tend to agree with you about misrepresentation to those who bought the popcorn. It doesnt seem right.

What was the Council reps reaction to the accusation of poor funds management? Judging from your reply they didnt put much stock in it.

Taking your story at face value, in my mind this moved beyond simple sour grapes when she brought the Council into it. Who else is she spreading this misinformation too? Families within your Pack may be happy with how Pack funds are spent but those outside the pack, potential recruits or future popcorn customers, might be put off by this gossip. It could even reflect badly on your Charter Organization and also the Committee and Treasurer personally.

I personally would say something. Try approaching her in a pleasant but businesslike way and say something like I have heard from Council that you have some complaint about how the Pack uses its funds. Would you mind bringing your concerns to the Committee so we can give them some consideration? If, as you suspect, shes just bitter and theres no real foundation to her accusations then I would ask her to please stop spreading such misinformation. I would even go as far as to request (nicely) that she call Council and retract her accusations. If she refuses or becomes belligerent then you might want to consider asking her to find another pack if shes that unhappy, although if you dont want to penalize the son you might just want to let it go at that point. At least you would have put her on notice that such behavior is not acceptable.

Have you had any other issues with her before this?

Good luck!

YIS,

Mike

And if you loved sprayable dog poop youll go gaga over edible vomit!

I discovered a recipe online just in time for last years Pack Halloween Party. The boys were delightfully disgusted as I redigested the regurgitation mission accomplished!

YIS

Mike

(Another 12 year old)

I cant legally wear my Wood Badge patrol patch as a patrol patch!?! I had seen them on other scouters and just assumed it was a Wood Badge perk. I guess its true about dont assume.

This news is un-bear-able. Im sorry I checked out this thread, its made me beary, beary unhappy.

YIS,

Mike

Folks,

Im not weighing in on whether this poster is trolling or not, but using archery and camping as evidence that this guy was not a Cub Scout is inconclusive.

How many of your Cubs practiced archery at Cub Day Camp (mine did)? Our Pack, from Tigers on up, family camps at least once a year.

YIS,

Mike

Gee, Rythos, 60 cubs Im jealous! Right now our Pack is hovering at about 37. We have three other competing packs in town.

Our District is pushing Roundups. We participated in a District-sponsored Roundup last spring with pretty good results. I got a den of 9 Tigers out of it, as well as 3 boys for other ranks. We had displays of patches, belt loops (shiny things), and the always popular Pinewood cars. We had a slide show on a laptop and an artificial camp fire (nice one lights, fan, and silk flames). Two other packs were present also but Im happy to say we did the best for recruitment.

Our first Pack Meeting is coming up this Friday and we have an Open House scheduled for the hour before. We sent flyers to the schools and ran an ad in the local newspaper. For the Pack Meeting, in addition to presentation of awards earned over the summer (we have an active summertime program) and songs, we lined up a local police officer and his dog from the canine unit to put on a demonstration. We hope this will be a good hook to those potential cubs and parents who opt to stay.

I try to keep our Pack in the public eye year-round by submitting to our local paper photos with commentary about our latest events. I used the materials provided by the District to make business card sized invitations that my son distributed to his class at school. If you are running a good program then the boys themselves will be the best salesmen for your pack.

While getting new cubs is important Id be more concerned with retention. You can bring in vast quantities of new cubs but if they arent sticking with your pack then you have a bigger problem than attracting recruits.

Our biggest problem is not so much recruiting cubs but rather recruiting adult leaders. Again, you can get vast quantities of cubs to sign on but if you cant provide the leadership then whats the point?

YIS

Mike

Good question, ASM59. I really dont know as we never discussed that.

It could be a mix of the reasons you suggest (a mom type looks better arranging kids clothes), or it could have just been her concern with public perception of a guy in a scout uniform fiddling with a boys belt.

Ill have to ask.

YIS,

Mike

Understood, FScouter, getting caught alone with a boy is no crime, but unfortunately theres the concept of perception. Innocent situations can be twisted into something theyre not by equally innocent misunderstandings or by over-zealous or vindictive people.

Im trying not to be paranoid, just prudent.

YIS,

Mike

Whoa, Snoring Bear! I appreciate that you see the incident the way I do, but our Chairperson is a really great scouter and is usually pretty open-minded about things.

What bothers me is not so much that she got nervous when I went to fix the boys belt, but the fact that she, and all of us, has to be so paranoid over what are really mundane actions. Heck, there have been times at campgrounds when Ive really had to go, walked into the latrine, saw one lone boy taking care of business, turned on my heel, and left. Despite my mundane intention of simply answering the call of nature, Id rather the risk of wet britches than having to deal with the furor over being caught alone with a boy!

I guess its like airline safety. We know the threat is there and we need to take precautions, but I still cant help grumbling when I have to take off my shoes.

YIS,

Mike

Folks,

I agree with whats been said about appropriate touching: the pat on the back for a job well done or the hug to the despondent scout. So long as its done in an appropriate setting: in front of others. Others have spoke of the benefits of these actions and I agree.

Wouldnt absolutely no touching eliminate the scout handshake?

In (Catholic) Church Ive appropriately touched younger people through offering the Sign of Peace with a handshake or touch on the arm, all done in full view of the congregation.

Heres a touching anecdote:

The Pack, along with several other leaders and parents and myself, was recently marching in a parade in our town. One of my Tigers (not my son) was wearing a 1930s Cub Scout uniform, complete with the period belt that is similar to the web belt of today. The uniform was a little big but he still looked sharp. Along the parade route the belt came loose (funny, almost 70 years later and they still havent figure out how to keep that buckle from loosening). He was having a hard time getting it tight again so when the parade stopped for a few moments I went to give him a hand. Mind you, we are in the middle of our main street with hundreds of people looking on. Our Chairperson came running up to me and said, you cant do that. I was a little taken aback but I stepped away and my wife, who happened to be marching with us, helped the boy make the adjustment. The Chairperson and I have talked about the incident a few times since then. Although she has given me the impression that perhaps her reaction was a little extreme given the setting, she still felt uncomfortable with my attempt to help the boy with his belt buckle.

Would I have done the same thing if I were alone with the boy? I think not, but of course its a moot point since I wouldnt have put myself in the position of being alone with the boy in the first place!

YIS,

Mike