DYB-Mike

Hijack continued.

Novice_Cubmaster, I had intended on mentioning the Quaker persecutions in my earlier response, but felt I was not informed enough about them.

There is a statue of Mary Dyer at our Statehouse in Boston. She was exiled by the Puritans for her Quaker beliefs several times but kept returning because her conscience and convictions moved her to. On her last return she was arrested, tried, convicted of heresy, and hanged on the Boston Common in 1660.

What was that about coming to the New World (America) to escape religious persecution?

Again, its Christian persecuting Christian. I've never heard of Atheists persecuting each other.

YIS

Mike

JoeBob, the KKK isnt ancient history either, neither are the Russian pogroms.

How long ago these things happened isnt the point, its that Christians really arent blameless either when it comes to terrorism it just so happens that we live in an age when Islam is on the front page. We need to keep our own Christian past in mind when considering these current events.

My understanding of the situation in Northern Ireland is that it is primarily a political struggle for control of that area, it just so happens the opposing factions are two branches of Christianity. Some of the Troubles have spilled to this side of the Atlantic though, and in my neck of the woods, in the form of gun running and murder.

YIS

Mike

Can you be gay and atheist and still be an Eagle Scout?

(That should keep things going for a while)

YIS

Mike

I registered to this forum just to ask you this: Why don't you let atheists be scouts?

I dont there is any need to speculate whether this person is a troll.

YIS

Mike

Searching for Christian terrorism only returned hits from atheist sites

JoeBob, you need to dig deeper. Just off the top of my head:

What about the IRA and the Orangemen, or the Klu Klux Klan? What about the pogroms in Russia?

What about the Huguenots persecutions in France, or Henry VIII and the dissolution of the Monasteries? What about Queen Mary and her attempts to reestablish Catholic primacy in England? They didnt call her Bloody Mary for nothing.

What about the Inquisition?

And why do you think Islamic radicals call us Crusaders?

These are not proud moments for Christianity. Even sadder, like the Sunnis and Shia, much of the above was Christian against Christian.

YIS

Mike

Yes, but thats you and I subsidizing them with our post-tax dollars, not the government. I wouldnt consider them as tax supported or subsidized in the sense Scoutfish is talking about. The definition of support is to sustain financially. If no one attended the Houses of Worship and made donations, whether in cash or services, they would fold.

I suppose you could say that Houses of Worship receive certain tax supported benefits, such as police and fire services, but could it also be said that there is a communal (selfish) benefit to that? A fire in a Houses of Worship could spread to a tax payer of another beliefs home or business. A criminal who breaks into a Place of Worship could break into a tax payer of another beliefs home or business next.

A cash subsidy or grant, whether federal state or local, generally comes with strings attached (non discrimination, equal opportunity, drug free workplace). You can reject those terms and not take the money or you can sign on and be contractually obligated to abide by those requirements.

YIS

Mike

I would say that a tax supported entity is any agency of the federal government or any entity that contracts to receive a federal grant or subsidy. By contracting I mean receiving the funds to further the mission of the grantee, not contracting in the sense of providing garage doors to the federal government.

At the state and local level I would give the same definition; however, different localities may have differences of how they define and enforce perceived discrimination in the use of their funds.

If Scoutfish is asking should folks who believe in God be denied services because these services may be funded by the taxes of non-theists I would say the answer is no. Scoutfish himself says The job of the government is to support ALL who pay taxes and I think that is correct. Obviously the problem arises when those who work directly for the government (federal, state, local) or those entities that receive government subsidies attempt to impose specific views or behaviors on those who may not share them and, failing that, deny those folks access to services funded by the governmental subsidies.

YIS

Mike

Like Zippyboro, we do the awards and skits first, followed by dinner, then any special entertainment and/or activities (this year we had a storyteller, belt loop stations and games). This year we also did dessert as the last thing (we had a 100th BSA birthday cake). I think weve always done dessert as the last thing, or close to the end of the evening.

YIS

Mike

Not to worry BklynEagle, hands down not only were BadenPs posts bigoted, they were downright offensive.

deluded by thinking they literally turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ BadenP, what authority gives you the right to slam a persons faith and belief? It frightens me that youre in a position of promoting this kind of intolerance in the guise of the Scout Oath and Law.

I found his initial post intriguing and it prompted me to do some research, but BadenPs latter posts on this thread have only characterized him to me as a raving crackpot, at least in this matter, and not worth my time.

Ill keep my Catholic blinders on, thank you.

YIS

Mike

Congratulations Axeman! Its a great feeling of satisfaction (and relief) when your Counselor declares the ticket complete!

Im must echo Emb021s sentiments though. There is a proper ceremony that goes along with the regalia. If I were in your position Id talk with my Counselor or the Course Director to see what can be done. My Course Director, who happened to be my Counselor, told me that I could involve anyone I wanted to in the ceremony, but it was his role (prerogative?) to present the Beads.

Getting the Beads is an accomplishment that should be properly recognized. Would we give out the Arrow of Light or Eagle rank in the same manner that you got your Beads?

Congratulations again!

YIS

Mike

NE-I-262

Still a Good OlBear

Getting my Beads 3/20/10!

The movie!

For me, the movie was my least favorite part of the course. While I understand why it was there and the points it conveyed, sitting inside watching a movie just didnt seem to mesh with the rest of what was an otherwise great experience. A couple of my Patrol mates had similar opinions.

YIS

Mike

NE-I-262

Still a Good OlBear

Getting my Beads 3/20/10!

Thanks, MNBob. When I think about what you say it makes sense. I have to admit that the grade/age/date stuff sometimes throws me.

We do make a bigger deal on the Arrow of Light award. Weve been fortunate in my time with the Pack that the boys have pretty much earned it as a group so that makes setting up a special ceremony easier.

ScoutNut, I guess you would call our Pack a feeder pack. We coordinate with our big brother Troop so that the new scouts are prepared to go to summer camp. There is usually a Troop camp out in June and the summer camp in July. In June the Troop holds a couple of summer camp information meetings, complete with visuals and older scout endorsements, with new scouts and their parents to help prepare them.

I had asked about the May Crossover and it appears its done to ease them into the cold weather camping experience we get here in New England. They get used to how the Troop operates in the field in the good weather and by the time the winter months hit theyre (hopefully) old hands.

YIS

Mike

Our Webelos get their Arrow of Light when they earn it. If they earn it by the Blue and Gold then so much the better.

Our Crossover occurs at our Family Campout held in mid to late May. This is the last event of our Cub Scout Year (although we do keep active in the summer).

Im just curious, you speak of 4th grade Webelos earning their Arrow of Light. Im familiar with 4th grade boys (Webelos I) earning the Webelos badge and then moving on to Arrow of Light and Crossover in the 5th grade (Webelos II). Am I missing something?

YIS

Mike

There is nothing in the Scout Oath or Law, or even anything that can be inferred from them, about not being gay.

I dont think thats entirely true. Some folks appear to hang their hat on the phrase morally straight because from their perspective, largely because of biblical interpretation, homosexuality is immoral. Until the majority opinion comes to view that idea as false (my view, by the way), this will still be an issue and a very tough nut to crack.

YIS

Mike

BadenP, I checked out the Vatican website as you suggested (read some of Sacramentum Caritatis concerning tabernacle placement), looked up articles on the net, and I really dont see any real evidence of this four tier plan or which you speak.

I really dont think Pope Benedict will be around for 20 years to put this plan into effect.

From what I can see its simply that the rules allowing for a Latin Mass have been relaxed so now a Bishops approval is no longer required.

Personally, I dont consider this a bad thing. I wouldnt mind hearing a Latin Mass now and then. There definitely is something mystical about it. Ive told my kids how the old Mass used to be celebrated when I was their age. I still have fragments of the old Latin responses rattling around my head.

YIS

Mike

Our Pack has used the themes if they seemed interesting and fun. We have also moved themes to another month if we liked the theme but had something else planned for the applicable month.

We usually applied the themes only to the pack meeting; the dens might plan an appropriate skit, but usually worked on advancement and other non-theme activities.

It is true about whats being said about abandoning the themes for Cub Scouts 2010. Den meetings will be devoted to advancement, but its no clear whats happening at the pack meetings.

Good luck as a new leader, just remember HAVE FUN!

YIS

Mike

Scoutfish, I dont think it was speculation. In one of the posts Old School Scout states I know that the boy hasn't finished quite a few of the requirements because I went through his book as I spoke with his parent. who by the way said that she doesn't have enough time to help her boy with all the requirements.

Its one thing for the Tiger or Cub Scout parent to produce a book with all of the requirements signed off, which you should accept even if you have some doubts about his or her veracity, but when the parent admits that they have havent completed them I dont think its right that you respond Well, OK, but since little Jimmy showed up Ill give him his rank badge anyway.

The requirements need to completed to the best of the scouts ability and Akela (the parent) needs to sign off. If Akela is admitting that work needs to be done, then kudos to Akela for his or her honesty. Thats a fine example for the scout to see. Now its time to help Akela get things done.

YIS

Mike

Asichacker, Im confused. Didnt you cover these issues in your Scout Step Parent with Issues thread, which is fairly recent? You got some good advice there (and Im not just referring to my posts).

Why the new thread? Do you expect something different?

YIS

Mike

Old School Scout,

The Cub Scout Year usually mirrors the school year, beginning in September and ending in May or June. Some packs are active in the summer, but many, our Pack included, just organize special events (no pack or den meetings) in order to earn the Summertime Activity Award. A Cub Scout can earn this award if he participates in at least one Pack summer event in the months of June, July and August.

I have always been of the philosophy that, as the Cub Scout Year begins in September, a boy has until August 31st to earn his rank. Its nice to get the ranks at the Blue and Gold, but as others have said, the ranks should be given as earned. Those who dont make it by then should be encouraged to keep at it. I'm a Wolf Den Leader and our Blue and Gold is this coming Sunday (God willing if we dont get another snow storm). I have nine boys registered to my Den and only two, maybe three, are getting the rank at the B&G. I have told the other boys and their parents no to be discouraged and keep working as theres always the next Pack Meeting and they understand and are OK with it.

We always give out at least a generic Blue and Gold patch to each scout so nobody gets left out.

I can only second what others have said about awarding ranks. As long as the boy attends the meetings, participates in the activities and does his best while participating, he should get his rank. Work with the parents and Tigers on alternatives for missed activities or Go-See-Its and be as flexible as possible as long as you can feel that you are not compromising the requirements.

YIS

Mike

Next come the brain implants so that leaders can be monitored to guard against abusive or impure thoughts about the boys. All bases are now covered, cut those liability insurance premiums in half!

YIS

Mike

In my limited experience Ive come across scouters who have felt Why do I need training? Ive been a leader for X number of years so I know what Im doing or I was an Eagle Scout, I know this stuff. They look upon training as an insult to their experience rather than in a positive way as a validation of what they know and an opportunity to build upon it or learn a fresh approach.

I believe Ive stated in earlier posts that, to me, almost important as the training itself is the opportunity to be amongst a group of scouters and exchange approaches and ideas. Ive seen the trainers (myself included) learn a thing or two as well.

YIS

Mike

Yes, Im a member of the Campaign Hat Club. I wear mine fairly regularly and my scout son wears one on occasion.

Ive kinda accumulated a number of them in search of the correct size and feel (a little worn, not too stiff). Ive gotten them from eBay, the Army/Navy store, and from Scoutstuff (BSA Supply).

BklynEagle, the Campaign Hat I received from BSA Supply (bought maybe two years ago) was a Stetson product packed in a Stetson box. Has Stetson discontinued making them?

I was considering getting a rain shield, but Ive worn my Campaign Hat in the rain on a couple of occasions, got it soaked, and had it dry perfectly fine so I never bothered with the rain shield.

On one of my Campaign Hats I wear an old Canadian Cubmasters pin (wolfs head with Do Your Best below). It looks sharp, but please dont tell the uniform police. Ive also picked up a Cubmasters brush but havent worn it.

While the Campaign Hat is a Sacred Symbol of Scouting, please dont forget about the other Sacred Symbol: the neckerchief. I was speaking with a scouter from Greece and the topic of Class B dress came up. The scouter to me that it was very common to wear civilian clothes with just a neckerchief thats all that was needed to identify them as Scouts.

Wear both proudly!

YIS

Mike

Whoa, Asichacker, a little harsh, dont you think?

Beavahs post mentions Scouts in passing, along with coaches and teachers, and strikes me as simply a general observation with a lot of truth to it.

Surely, as a baseball coach yourself, youve encountered parents of kids who think their son is the next Manny Ortiz, but who can barely swing a bat or, conversely, parents of kids with real talent who think Johnny is wasting his time playing ball and would be better served practicing the violin because, after all, they now whats best for their boy?

The 1 or 2 hours a week, presumably the troop meeting, expands to include camping trips, summer camp (a week or more), service projects, and other special events. I think a leader can get a good sense of what a boy can and cannot do over that time and by observing him in that variety of settings.

YIS,

Mike

Asichacker,

Thanks for filling us in. Just a couple of observations:

You still feel unwelcome. To be frank, as I read your posts which express disinterest, disapproval with the chaos, and the feeling that you have nothing to contribute, I wonder if you may be coming across to the troop adults as being someone who is aloof and judgmental. I mean no offense and you are certainly entitled to your opinions. Its just something that occurred to me as I thought about your situation. I honestly dont think being a step-dad has anything to do with acceptance. In the pack and troop that Im associated with we have step-parents, single parents, and even same-sex parents and what it comes down to for most of us is not what the parental status is, but how that person comes across.

As to the chaos, yes, that could be a sign of problems, but it could also be the sign of a truly boy-lead troop learning from mistakes and finding its way. The prime reason I suggested talking with your son was because if he has ideas and the troop is truly boy-lead then he has the opportunity to make a difference and you should encourage him. Even first year scouts, if they are well-liked and appear confident and assertive, can get their ideas heard and perhaps acted upon by their peers in their patrols and perhaps in the troop as a whole. You have also made it clear that you yourself do not wish to address the chaos as a leader or teacher, so nuff said about that.

At any rate if your sons interest is waning theres probably not much more to be said. It was suggested that you look for other troops in your area that appeal more to your (and your sons) sense of how things should operate. This could revive his interest, seeing that he does enjoy the camping, and make you feel more comfortable.

I wish you and your son well.

YIS

Mike

WestCoastScouter, some thoughts:

You didnt say if they appointed a new CC. If so, this person is probably aligned with the new CM, but is that the case?

How does the rest (majority) of the Committee feel?

Do you get along with the new CM? Is he approachable and willing to listen to what Im assuming is the pack consensus regarding the situation? If hes introverted maybe he doesnt even want the job and would be happy if someone took it off his hands. Maybe one or both of the den dads could serve as ACM(s). The former CM of our Pack was a great and knowledgeable guy but very soft spoken and low-key and I, as ACM, usually ended up running many of the Pack Meetings (because I was loud and silly) with his blessing.

Even though the COR is not active I would at least attempt to contact him for the proverbial sit-down and cup of coffee to discuss the situation before your group decides to bolt the pack.

Another consideration is if one of these den dads does become CM is there a replacement ready for him at the den? The den is the heart of the pack and it would be a shame if the den suffered because of the move.

Id think long and hard about bolting the pack. Even if it ends up that the new CM is here to stay, if otherwise things are going well (as it sounds they are) and the new CM is cooperative, why leave?

YIS

Mike