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Ah so we've entered the malicious compliance phase of things. I see. That's usually not a great sign.

Just circling back to say how helpful this thread has been. We just did annual planning this week and the PLC switched all of our Troop's monthly campouts from two nights to one. We had been inadvertently counting those two-nighters towards First Class! But read closely! "Since joining Scouts BSA, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities, at least six of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least three must include overnight camping." So for the past few months we haven't been signing off on any camping trips of two or more nights, as those are not ove

This is going to be a CF on a large scale. It briefs well, but the reality is different. We're now going to have to spend time randomly to get parents to pay for their Scout to recharter rather than do the annual drive to get them to pay? How does this streamline anything? We're going to have to have someone dedicated full time to tracking when every Scout is due to recharter rather than a bulk effort at one time.

We've got a few parents that have their e-mail settings turned off for their sons' Scoutbook accounts. One parent claims it's a security issue. We also have a private Facebook group to communicate everything as well, but then there are plenty parents that aren't on Facebook either. All parents are invited to the Troop meetings at the end to hear the announcements, but still, only a handful of the same parents show up. I've also seen Scouts tell their parents picking them up after a meeting about upcoming campouts, events, etc.. and then the same parents claim they never heard anyth

I'm sure your son faced enough judgements over those two years between suspension and the Eagle application. If after the suspension, the troop kept the scout registered, then the suspension should not be used against him. Key point is keeping the scout registered and participating is tacit agreement that the scout could earn Eagle if he stays active and working the requirements. It's too late at the EBOR to use the suspension against the scout. ... It might be very different if the incident was a month before the EBOR.

I would be wary of the accuracy of training reports of Scouters who have been around of while. At least three in the past 19 years, training records and PORs have disappeared. I could understand my out of council records disappearing, but ALL (emphasis) of my training, as well as every single Scouter's training records in the council disappeared. I spent about 18 months getting my district's training records fixed, and was so glad I kept a hard copy and digital copy of all that work because about 2 years later, the records disappeared again. I was able to resubmit the bulk of the records, and

This is where my head went last night as well. National thinks on a calendar year basis for everything. Those of us delivering the program generally think on a school-year basis. Generalizing here, but most units strive for "back-to-school" recruitment, so new scouts you bring in (whether Cub or Scouts BSA) are then starting in August/September. So, those of us in the program now are theoretically "grandfathered" to the annual (1/1) fee structure, so easy enough for those you have around now both youth and adult. but, going forward, you start to add in "off-cycle" membership as of this fall.

??? Why not get the local Scouter input first and then determine if it is necessary or even affordable to hire an outside national architect firm? So for an existing camp, we have local scout leaders familiar and concerned about program quality and summer camp costs and Council execs seeing money that immediately needs to be spent to hire an outside architect firm to develop a master camp plan??

This seems to be more transparent therm the report to congress? It also includes the membership of the national committee. https://oa-bsa.org/uploads/publications/impact-reports/2022-OA-National-Impact-Report-Digital.pdf

Agreed. He also passed the SM conference. I think the OP was right in doing an appeal. It isn’t like a suspension 2 years prior labels him a felon for life. Sounds like he turned things around and should end awarded eagle for having completed the requirements. Unless there is a huge detail the OP chose not to include, it seems pretty open and close.

I'm against the "insta-Scout" for AOL crossovers as well. First, it starts teaching the Scouts the self reliance and self advocacy that are necessary in Scouting and in life. It's not the simple Cub Scouting rubber stamp anymore, you don't get sign-offs just for showing up. The Scout needs to seek out the older scouts (PLC members, Troop Guides, etc...) and to meet the adult leadership as well to demonstrate their skills and earn the sign-offs necessary for advancement. It goes a long way for the SM, ASM's, and others in getting to know them as individuals as well. Our troop may be un

Thanks all for quick reply, sorry I've been very slow to respond. The required process is first to appeal to the Council Advancement Committee, and then (if denied) to appeal to the National level via the Council. @fred8033, as far as I know it's not possible to directly appeal to national; I don't mean not allowed, but literally there is no place to directly send an appeal. @InquisitiveScouter, Council did not copy us, but they have confirmed verbally that it was sent fairly promptly. I can well believe that this delay is normal, but it sure would be nice to have some hint as to how long

I'd bet YOU are the evil one 😈

This was a fun little exercise. Our local Scout Exec's salary and benefits total ~$140,000. Our council serve's ~9,000 youth (down from ~18,000 in 2019). This works out to roughly $16 per scout. We live in a low-to-moderate cost of living area where a mid-career college grad or skilled tradesman probably earns ~$80,000 per year (figure closer to $100,000 with benefits) Honestly, $140,000 for a Scout Exec doesn't seem THAT bad by comparison.

@skeptic , you're right that a one word title can't possibly convey what the session is about, but that's the fault of the one that chose it. Vague titles indicate vague talks. I can honestly say that the only thing I'd be interested in would be topics that will help units improve their programs. Everything else, given what the BSA has been through recently, is pointless. If there's one thing that the leadership could do it's focusing on what's important.

I think this is a bigger issue. Fewer adults volunteering, irrespective of cost. Adding cost will make it worse. There are ways around the fees. Do your own summer camp and save a bundle. Unfortunately, that takes volunteers. Our troop is slowly morphing into a core of volunteers without kids in the program and parents that help but won't do any heavy lifting. I'm curious if this is close to the UK model (sounds like none of their leaders have kids in their units). I don't see a solution to these problems yet but have a feeling we have to adapt to a new reality.

Supposedly they received over $6M for the camp sale so have ~$3M to spend on this camp. The camp has very few cabins, toilets, a small dining hall and is very underdeveloped. Definitely hope they listen to local scouters. When I talked with the council leadership, they emphasized they want to ensure they have good plans before adding anything. We will see...

Would love to be privy to whatever that master plan suggested is. Can't imagine that someone you are paying to come up with that plan is only going to suggest things that are little/no cost or that can be done only with volunteer labor.

Indian Mounds Reservation was sold to a NA Tribe.... Probably the best buyer of the land. Dear Scout Leaders: Earlier today, the Trustees of the Milwaukee Boy Scout Fund completed the sale of Indian Mound Scout Reservation (IMR) to the Forest County Potawatomi Community. The camp sale follows Three Harbors Council’s decision to end camp operations at IMR last fall. This difficult decision was reached following a comprehensive review of our two camps while taking into consideration the significant contribution of $3.685 million requested from our council to suppor

Here is an image of the PPT slide at the National meeting.

IMHO, an understating of the important and an overstating the mundane. I would like details. As I recall Tilden when CEO Alaskan Airlines, cut executive salaries during difficult times. What expanded insurance protections? What expenses have been reduced - are handbooks and MB books freely online? How much has the yearly cost of scouting increased? Tell, Show, Do. My $0.02,

@Fred8033, I'm with you. After this year, only one of my sons will be eligible to be a Scout. But he is burnt out. He has been doing Scouting in some shape or form since being a toddler, and hanging with his brothers in Cub Scouts. He achieved his goal, Eagle, and may quit once December comes. He may have stayed around if his brothers and a few 18+ friends stuck around, but none of them are willing to give up their friendships per YP rules to remain in Scouting.

I'm glad I'm transitioned now. At one point, we had four actively registered scouts in my family and two registered adults. That would have been $440 in national fees. Probably another $320 in council fees at least. $760 for just registration and before Boy's Life magazine, camping, uniforms, activities, miscellaneous AND fundraising to keep the unit viable. Wow! In hind sight, I am sure there were many years that scouting cost was at least $5000 a year and some that must have been near twice that. Jamboree. High adventures. Four summer camps. ... and the miscellaneous cost for

How about this: As we have seen on the forum Councils are giving National a "salute" on this already. Rules? we don't need no stinkin rules. Rules and Regulations - Local Council Annual Registration or Program Fees Under the Rules and Regulations of the BSA, a local council may charge an annual registration or program fee to youth members, adult program participants and Scouters whose primary registration is with the council in an amount not to exceed the amount of the applicable individual registration fee for their position established by the Executive Committee. In the new Ann

One positive out of the MBC fee, now MBCs can camp with troops, ships, and crews since they are in a PAID position.

I see the same in my district and council. When I look up a MBC in Scoutbook it is pretty much always someone who is also registered in some other position. My question would be how this will affect the new camping rules come September 1. Since MBC will now be a fee paid position will that allow them to be included in unit camping???

Emailed out last night from our neighboring council, from the NAM: Dear Scouting family, Moments ago we received the following very important message from our national council and wanted to share it with you in its entirety. BSA’s emergence from bankruptcy represents a pivotal milestone in the Boy Scouts of America (BSA)’s financial restructuring case and solidifies a path forward for survivors and the Scouting movement. To preserve its mission, the BSA has had to take some extraordinary steps over the past three years to reposition the organization

I wonder how often this happens compared to the old days. Seems that the increasing competition for social media attention and college applications makes parents slough off integrity in an effort to get their kid rank. I have seen some questionable stuff in Cub Scouts, like people earning 70% of their rank in a weekend. Even had one claim that a kid earned AOL despite having attended one meeting and a day (not night) of camping.

Our Troop assists our local American Legion in placing flags for Memorial Day in those cemeteries in their district. It's a great history lesson for our Scouts as well, as we have some markers here from the French and Indian War!! In fact, just the day before yesterday was the anniversary of the first battle of that conflict, out near @qwazse's way (or what we here call western Pennsyltucky) Battle of Jumonville Glen (a skirmish, really)... where 40 Provincial Troops (accompanied by 12 Mingo natives, including two boys) ambushed 35 Canadiens (French Canadians). The provin

Sloooowly I turned.... step by step....

One change announced today - K4 through 4th grade Cub Scout Dens can now be coed.

It’s like I have an evil twin.

I have the plans for the building. Such good handwriting in early to mid 1960s. The lumber and logs were obtained from Grothe Lumber in Walden, CO. The total cost of logs and lumber, doors, etc. was $11,000.76. I will try to get these documents scanned and sent to you.

Key 3 and Training Manager (functional position designated by Key 3) can also see exactly what courses everyone needs in your unit. Post if you want a tutorial...

Sounds like a fun BNB

The National fee will be the least of your problem. The usury extra fees that councils will add on with impunity as we have heard on the forums will likely drive more out of the program.

These are two different Chief Logan camps. The Ohio one is close to being sold though.

The ACE program run by Avelo Airlines is the first of its kind program that is said to inspire the next generation of aerospace and aviation professionals. The program lasts for six months and is focused on providing opportunities for middle-school-aged students. This specific program is a partnership between East Haven Public Schools and Avelo Airlines in collaboration with Exploring. Exploring is a co-ed awareness program that is run by the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) that provides curriculum development and management for younger kids across the country. The Boy Scouts of America Direc

Talk with your Council Training Committee Chair, or your Staff Advisor for Training (a paid professional with that additional duty) It depends on your background. I'll elaborate if you wish. Plus, IOLS is a fairly trainer-intensive program. It takes several instructors and a course director with support managing things to get through the syllabus well. Train-the-Trainer (Fundamentals) D70 Trainer's EDGE H96 ...are two courses your council may wish you to take to designate you as a Trainer.

I have been to camps where the policy is that Scouts must be within sight of adults at all times. How ludicrous! And ignored... It is a balance depending on activity, age, and skill level. And you will never get it 100% right. Will you take risks, or will you eliminate all risk? If you take appropriate risks, Scouts will experience responsibility and personal growth. If you eliminate all risk, you will have a Cub Scout-level program. I have taken too much risk in some instances (with near misses), and not enough in others (with too much "parenting"). Sometimes, I nearly hit th

There is a difference... when you completed your Masters, you did so through an accredited program. When you learned your statistics, and did your ANOVA (Analysis of Variance, for inquiring minds...), did EDGE... your professor explained and demonstrated (hopefully), then guided you through a problem set. Finally, you were enabled (or evaluated, which I think would be a better use of the letter 😜 ) through a test, and on a final exam. You showed a level of proficiency, at the time. I still have to open my Scout Handbook to review and refresh skills. If you needed to do an ANOVA, you'

My thoughts too, but then this is the reality of society. Only those with credentialing exams really require one to maintain skills. Everything has become a box check - get it done, get it recorded, forget about it. I'm guilty of it. Did a masters of public health over the last two years. I couldn't tell you how to do an ANOVA if my life depended on it. It's not valuable to my actual job. I knew that going in, but someone, somewhere long ago decided that this was the degree needed to advance. I'm not alone. On the flip side, most of the core skills needed for Eagle are valuable for li

"The Coast Guard is looking for volunteers to share their skills and experiences with future leaders during the 2023 National Jamboree hosted by Scouts BSA, July 19-28 at the Bechtel Summit Reserve in Beckley, West Virginia. Prior Scouting experience isn’t required, but you must submit a volunteer packet by June 16 to be considered for this community service opportunity. The Coast Guard has supported 11 previous Jamborees and previous volunteers have used this community service to stand out from their peers for officer candidate school packages, officer-in-Charge review packages,

Yep. Advancement is a method, it is not the goal.

A volunteer panel reviews and make the recommendation. I’ve seen it take one to twelve months. Never seen ,, although I guess it has happened, the scout turned down because it is always the fault of the adults even it there is clear evidence that the scout did not actually do the requirements.

These fees are out of control. There's no transparency or justification. They bring no value to units or Scouts/Scouters. In an age where Scouts BSA is purportedly emphasizing DEI these fees put Scouting out of reach for many. It boils my blood.

@Nate_m, you are missing the fundamental premise. ALL, repeat ALL, monies fundraised belong to the Chartering Organization. Period. Those monies NEVER belong to the Scout, nor to the Unit!! Now, that said, a CO is allowed to use SOME, repeat SOME, of the monies fundraised for the benefit of individual Scouts, and SOLELY for Scouting purposes. The IRS sets the rules for this. In a nutshell, a Scout may not receive a substantial benefit, although the IRS has never defined exactly what a "substantial benefit" is. It is a gray area. We can go deep down that rabbit hole if you like.

I was thinking about this a little more, and I think if I could send @RichardB one (long) message from this it would be: This forum, while hardly a complete cross-section of Scouting, seems to have a pretty good selection from different councils and different programs. It skews to more experienced Scouters, I'd say. The group is not homogeneous in thought by any stretch. Though some of the members are clearly wrong on many things (😁), not one poster here has ever come across to me as anything other than well-reasoned and well-meaning. If the members of this group didn't understand BS

Our council kindly plays bad cop for us. They won't let us keep anybody on the charter who is not trained fro their position.

Your outside. With scouters. It's not perfect, but celebrate being together and honoring new members.