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  1. 6 points
    Do we really need to revisit the topic of the highly manipulative surveys that were selectively distributed and strangely worded to ensure a pre-determined outcome? Please don't insult the intelligence of this forum by trying to assert that those bogus survey results were in any way a fair representation of support.
  2. 4 points
    As you may know a kidnapped Wisconsin teenager escaped her captor and the first person she found was a retired child social worker Jeanne Nutter walking her dog Henry. Amazing, how at times, there is just the right person or group of people there at the right time when a need arises. She needed to be in a safe place. Safety, Safety, Safety, ... kids need to be safe...ask questions later, talk softly, few questions...dusk off my Child protection skills... no matter what I did that child was going to be safe - Jeanne Nutter. Scout Salute to Jeanne Nutter.
  3. 3 points
    They're scouts. I doubt they'll smell sweet.
  4. 2 points
    I agree with @gblotter. Telling boys about surveys in which they likely did not participate is useless ... especially when the surveys did not address the name of the organization that hopefully they will one day lead. I've experienced this first first hand with scouts and unit numbers as troops merged. Quick summary: the older scouts felt left behind when a vote went against using the number of the older troop. There was resentment. Then a year later, when the new CO wanted to charge rent, the CC decided to charter under the old CO and old #. So, the next round of crossovers kept that #. I made it clear repeatedly, that nobody had to pull off numbers of their uniform. No other troop was using either #. So, we have two numbers that can hang on sleeves and pass uniform inspection. Earn respect through cheerful service. You'll be fine. Unfortunately, for our older scouts, the back-and-forth was too much. Most left scouting at life rank. Boys are sentimental. Can we blame them? We taught them to love tradition.
  5. 2 points
    Even though it is a different topic I can answer your question. Your right, when I earned Eagle I did not have the cooking merit badge. However, I cooked all the time at home, did try cooking on campouts etc so for me it would have been no more work! We did not need Merit Badge workbooks to work on Merit Badges but still went through each requirement thoroughly. Today I see many MB counselors and leaders "teaching" the material, say at a Troop meeting and signing off the requirement and NOT following the Learn, Test, Review method. Too many adults are afraid to "fail" a Scout and ask them to study some more and retest. I have recently seen Life Scouts that have never used flint and steel to start a fire, cannot tie lashings or knots, and cannot repeat the Outdoor code. I just took over as SM and we had a Life Scout move to the troop in July last year and turns 18 this year. He has not held 1 qualified Leadership position ever, but his dad signed it off for Star. After talking with him to try and give him the opportunity to hold a qualified position as Life Scout (which he has not fulfilled properly) before turning 18, his dad wanted to argue. Some might roll over but I will have not sign the Eagle Application and will be happy to explain all this to Council. The SM conference should involve some testing of the basic requirements, otherwise these Scouts are slipping through the cracks. BSA has a hypocritical Uniform policy. The Scouts need it, but cannot be required. We ALWAYS had uniforms, and did not question it! We are not able to require uniforms for SM Conference or BOR? If we are following the 8 Methods of Scouting, Uniforms should be required. Today, many troop are more Glamping than camping. They have gas stoves, benches, tables, plastic "mess kits", fancy dining fly's. The parents are buying Taj Mahal tents for "backpacking" trips. What happened to the basics, cooking over fire, enjoying the outdoors? Luckily my son loves the basics and the cold weather camping and keeps asking when we are going to do it. Well I am now SM so these ideals will be implemented to one degree or another. These are just a few of what has changed, maybe not on paper but how the Program is being run!
  6. 2 points
    Thanks for the replies. I feel that the BSA is getting lax on many rules and policies and that means the honors are becoming less meaningful. I earned my Eagle in 1991 and worked hard. It seems now the BSA basically says sign it off and do not question. Have been an OA Brotherhood since 1990 and that meant something, as I was also on the dance team. Again, OA has seemed to lighten the requirements for this year. Not trying to be a Drill Sergeant but again these honors are becoming a dime a dozen. NOT every Scouts will earn/deserve Eagle nor will everyone earn/deserve to be an Arrowman. I will have a chat with the Scouts as mentioned and gather the scope of their involvement in the family camp.
  7. 2 points
    As a former CC & CM, this is 100% correct. The decision on who is an adult volunteer is up to the CC & COR. If either of your rejects a volunteer - it's done. Since you both don't want him to be CM - this is easy - he's not the Cubmaster. You don't need anyone's permission to reject him - it's your call.
  8. 2 points
    You as CC and the COR are both responsible for approving all adult leaders in your unit. Since you're both on the same page that this person should not be your CM, and it sounds like there are some red flags that would pop up on a background check, this should be a short meeting. You need to let this person know that their services are no longer needed. Inform your DE and unit commissioner of your decision. But ultimately the decision is all on you. Your council will let you know that this is a matter between you, your chartered organization, and the individual who wants to be your Cubmaster. They still, though, need to be kept in the loop on what is transpiring. The council would get involved only if this application ever made its way to the registrar's desk with all that missing information. Because this person has not had his application approved by you and the COR, submitted to council, or had a background check passed, he should not be at meetings attempting to perform the duties of a Cubmaster. His actions alone should disqualify him: he refused to sign the religious principles declaration, refuses to authorize a background check, and I'd be willing to bet he hasn't taken YPT. He needs to be informed that his services are no longer needed.
  9. 2 points
    Like many of us who post here I'm just a lowly volunteer. I work mostly with the OA at the chapter level where about a dozen troops make up 90% of its active members. As far as I have been able to ascertain none of those Scout participated in the survey. In fact they were totally unaware that the survey even existed. I learned about it only from this forum. I heard nothing from my district, nothing from my Council, nothing from my lodge. Nary a word could I find pertaining to it on the many pages of the council website. So please excuse me if I am also a bit of a Skeptic.
  10. 2 points
    Would you please post where you got those results? I have been looking everywhere, and cannot find the results of the membership poll BSA took after teh town halls in 2017. All the stats I have seen comes from non-member surveys. I know in my neck of the woods, it is no where close to 75% for the membership change. Maybe 35-40 overall, and youth is more like 5% for.
  11. 2 points
    Their response makes little sense. Their troop is not affected - it remains all male. Since they have invested so much time in Scouting, why should they leave? Allowing girls to become Scouts in the BSA at younger ages than 14 does not affect their troop. Trademark issues required a name change of the program. Surveys of the youth (and absolutely every group measured including volunteers, donors, Eagle Scouts, the OA and others showed a similar level of support) in Scouting showed a 75% or greater support for the addition of girls so they had a voice. The youth were in favor of adding girls. The focus has not changed from developing character and leadership in today's youth for tomorrow's citizens. So they have a voice, their platform was not successful, so they should have learned that is life for all of us. They should be encouraged to continue as perseverance and resilience is something that we all hope as volunteers that we are helping the youth to do. Obviously, I have no first hand knowledge beyond units that I am a volunteer, but this kind of reaction seems to represent the adult volunteer views influencing the boys. It is sad that because the program is being offered to more youth that some now wish to discourage youth from participating in a positive life changing program.
  12. 2 points
    @Monkeytamer, all the best to your clutch of Eagles! I would be remiss if I didn't encourage you to tell them that theirs still work to be done. There a Palms -- not just insta-palms -- to be earned, Hornaday Awards, Patrol leaders to train, camps to staff, adventures to be had, etc ... There's nothing greater than a bunch of fellas modelling scouting to the rest of the troop without fretting over advancement. The rest of their terms should be awesome.
  13. 2 points
    Richard Smith, 75, known to those on the trail and many in Canton as “Old Scout,” completed the Appalachian Trail hike in what is known as the “AT Flip-Flop.” Instead of hiking from Georgia’s Springer Mountain through to Maine’s Mount Katahdin, he hiked from Harpers Ferry in West Virginia to Maine, took a combination of trains and buses back to Harpers Ferry and completed the hike back to Springer Mountain in December. “Most people start their through-hike at Springer Mountain in Georgia and hike north to Mt. Katahdin. I didn't want to do it that way, because the trail (has) too many people hiking north at the same time. By doing a flip-flop, I avoided the crowds and had much more private time. There were days when I didn't see another person on the trail,” he said. ... Smith said some of his most fond memories are from hiking and camping with his son, who is an Eagle Scout in local Troop 465. “I tell everyone that I got as much out of Boy Scouts as he did. I never was a Boy Scout when I was a kid, but the scouting program has been an important part of my life,” Smith said. ... Hikers older than 70 account for only 2 percent of the through-hikes, while hikers ages 20 – 39 account for 70 percent. More at source https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/ledger/year-old-canton-resident-completes-appalachian-trail/article_88e061c8-15cb-11e9-b991-fbe801aba9ae.html
  14. 2 points
    I’d report this event to the local council Advancement chair and if applicable, the host council Advancement chair. What is described is simply not acceptable. At an out of district event once, I was asked to “teach” and sign off on a MB in two hours. I asked coordinator if he was nuts. He told me this was what they promised the youth. i told him goodbye.
  15. 2 points
    A few "pearls" from my treks: * The chuckwagon dinner is a great change from freeze dried but dont expect too much. The two times Ive had it, it is commercial-size (boil in the bag) dinty moore beef stew and dutch over cobbler. As I said, a nice change of pace but it is really easy to over eat and get sick (dont ask how I know). * We did cowboy action shooting the first year it was offered so things may have changed since then. We used 22cal revolvers loaded a single shot at a time. It was fun because it was pistols but it was really pretty "meh" if you have done much shooting. * They never seemed to get tired of tomahawks. * Burro packing is an interesting experience. Both times we had a youth who has horses so he knew how to get the animal moving. I have read stories of people who were not so fortunate. * I am not aware of any cabins available to sleep in. Yes there are some to tour, we like Hunting Lodge. There is one place where you sleep in a lean-to type shelter on a platform on the side of the hill. Dont recall the camp but it is in the SW part of the ranch. * Our guys really liked the sweat lodge and the burro racing * It was so-so for the guys but the adults all really enjoyed the re-dedication to Scouting program (and the cabin) at Zastrow camp * Dry camps are not bad, you just have to plan ahead a bit. YOu've probably heard about eating dinner for lunch that day. * How much down time you have is very dependent on how organized and efficient the crew is. If they take 2 hours to get out of camp in the morning and have a long hike they are likely to miss program at the next camp. If you know they are slow to get on the trail and/or slow to hike, you may want to encourage low miles so they dont miss activities. * If you do Baldy, I suggest having it later in the trek so you have your "trail legs" under you. I have only done it on a layover day - just enough packs for essentials and to pick up food on the way back down. Hope that helps....
  16. 1 point
    Did the two young men pitch their own tent and sleep as Scouts? Did they assist with camp cooking or cleaning, or help the Pack do things? If yes, I’d count it. If they were bumps on a log, I’d pass. It’s your call as SM.
  17. 1 point
    What makes this worse is that Environmental Science does not have to be done this way. Half of the requirements can be done by doing experiments, for crying out loud. 8 hours of lecture and fill-in-the-blanks? That sounds awful.
  18. 1 point
    Right. Here's how I'd read this: I see only two restrictions on how the 10 nights are spent: not more than 3 nights on a single trip must happen while the Scout is a registered troop, crew, or ship member. This could be troop camping, cub camping, family camping, friend camping, solo camping, whatever. It's not vague so much as it's not what you'd expect. I think the point is that it's the society of honor campers. Whether you're camping with the BSA or somewhere else - you're still camping.
  19. 1 point
    I would recommend contacting your local lodge leadership and get their take on this. Many parts of BSA advancement specifically exclude camping done with a pack. As several others have stated above, it may come down to why were they there. If just because it was a family event and they had no choice, probably excluded. If they were staffing the event, may find that the lodge will say it counts.
  20. 1 point
    Where they just family camping with the Cubs or were they acting as Den chiefs or similar roles. I would approve it if the boys were actively helping and training the cubs. But not if it was just a family campout. Just my two cents
  21. 1 point
    My default answer is maybe.....Here's what I believe the requirement states (from https://oa-bsa.org/about/membership): Have experienced 15 nights of camping while registered with a troop, crew, or ship within the two years immediately prior to the election. The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of at least five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement; the balance of the camping (10 nights) must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps of, at most, three nights each. Ship nights may be counted as camping for Sea Scouts. Now, beyond the fact the final clause could be interpreted to mean any camping is acceptable for the 10 nights, (it specifically doesn't say BSA), the Cub family camp is clearly BSA. My decision point would be this, if they were along to help with the camp out, putting on an event, cooking, even participating/being an example to the Cubs, I'd be inclined to say yes they count. If they were drug along by mom and/or dad and spent the weekend playing on their phones, I'd say no.
  22. 1 point
    2 Scouts (or 1 Scout and a buddy) meeting with 1 counselor. Source: explanation given to Scouts, found in Boy Scout Handbook, for earning a merit badge.
  23. 1 point
    The judge didn't think so. The newspaper didn't think so. The scout unit didn't think so. I think it is time you wake up and smell the coffee. A felony conviction is not insignificant.
  24. 1 point
    I think every person and organization who opposes a mining and drilling site should required to propose an alternate site. We have to mine and drill somewhere. NIMBY (not in my back yard) is not a reasonable attitude.
  25. 1 point
    My apologies to the mods that this response really belongs in the Uniform Forum. I will gladly accept any action you decide appropriate for my post. Over the years as a adult leader instructor, I've experienced two subjects that seem to challenge adult leaders more than any other subject, including patrol method. Those two subjects are discipline and uniform. They raise above just about anything else in the normal scouting environment because adults approach them from the emotional perspective and emotion is a strong force to change. In the case of the uniform, I find adults stumble around the subject just as I see stosh stumbling around. Stosh suggest that a scout will learn to respect the uniform by the respect he receives from others around him. And yet Stosh is quick to discount guidance or the Scoutmaster's respect, the one person who just have some insight to understanding of the subject. I select stosh only because his post is representative of 99% of scouters in the BSA. Part of the reason we struggle with the uniform is because the BSA tells us that it is one of the Eight most important methods or applications a boy uses to grow into a man. And yet, they come right back and say "but it is not required. Well, that's interesting. Another reason adults struggle with the uniform is because most have an emotional relationship with it. Some adults believe by it because of their experience in the military, law enforcement, sports or whatever. Other adults have negative view of the uniform and are quite happy to let that part of the paramilitary program go. I had once such ASM who was involved in campus anti-authority protest back in the 60s. As I have said in my Scout Spirit post, units tend to follow the Scoutmaster's approach of the uniform. Which is fine except the reasoning behind the Scoutmasters approach doesn't always make sense among outsiders. Consider stosh who doesn't require his scouts to wear the uniform or wear it correctly. Yet his next sentence is a warning that if a scout does chose to wear the uniform, he better wear it correctly. I'm sure that makes sense in stosh's mind, but those of us on the outside (at least me) is scratching our heads. But as I said, just about all of us struggle with how to use the uniform method. It's hard to tell in his post, but I think stosh is correct in that he is trying to give the scout the responsibility for justifying his decision. But where we adults struggle in giving scouts credit for ambiguous decisions is the lack of reference for making a "correct" choice. Stosh like to suggest the adults stay out of it. Fine, but scouts then miss out from wisdom that gives them some sense of direction. Freedom and independence can be harmful just as harmful as strict direction when ignorance sends a scout the wrong direction. Without trying to guide leaders to how I use the uniform in our troop when I am a SM, I try to pull them back some from their emotional tie with THE Uniform dress and instead consider how to use the Method as working toward the 3 Aims (Character, fitness and citizenship). I also try to encourage adults look at these things from a boy perspective in an attempt to sway them away from nebulous or vague objectives like a scouts learning to respect the BSA by simply wearing the uniform. If a scout doesn't like camping, the uniform isn't going to change that. On the other side, there is the reference that stosh points out that if a scout wants some respect from scout outside the troop, the uniform itself does have some power of influence. What I think Stosh was trying to say is that development of character comes best when a scout rationalizes changing character habits by the experiences of previous decisions. My only advice is that the Scoutmaster should have an opinion so give scouts a starting place or reference to consider and compare against or with their own reasoning. In fact, I think scouts want an opinion from the Scoutmaster, even if they disagree with it. The uniform IS one of the Eight Methods for developing boys into men of character. I wish the BSA hadn't said scouts don't have to wear the uniform because that guidance is subversive to the power of using the other methods to toward the Three Aims. If scouts don't have to wear the uniform, do they really have to use the patrol method? And, quite honestly there is growth in trying to justify cost of uniforming instead of just letting scouts off the hook completely. I have seen scouts use the cost issue dishonestly (wrong choice) to justify not wearing the uniform. And yet, the Scout Handbook used to be clear on how a scout should dress for specific scouting activities. Has that changed? I would enjoy a discussion of why each of us think the uniform benefits the scouts. Like stosh, I like each individual scout to make that choice based on his personal experience and reasoning. Some scoutmasters don't trust giving scouts that independence and it is too bad. I said before that I have yet to observe a perfectly well dressed truly boy run troop. But doesn't mean the troop doesn't have guidelines and expectations, mine certainly does. It just means the scouts are given the time, responsibility and mentoring to figure it out. Just like with the other 7 methods. Sorry to go off on a different rabbit trail. Mods, its all yours. Barry