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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/06/21 in Posts

  1. In reply to questions, regarding yesterday's Zoom call where all the LCs were invited, the following is "public" information because it was discussed during the presentation and not part of any mediation confidentiality: 1) Which councils sat in and who from the council was there? There is a giant bit of difference between the professional Scout Exec sitting in and, say, the volunteer Council President or General Counsel, for example. Good question. Those involved with scouting should ask their Council Exec. The attendance was huge. 2) While I believe they went through "in gre
    4 points
  2. Does Grand Rapids issue you an annual charter or some other such right to continue operations? Do they have any intellectual or other property you utilize that they can retract or withhold? Do they have the unilateral right to withhold that annual renewal or a right to revoke? I'm asking because I don't know, not because I'm taking potshots. I also don't know the inner workings and details of the BSA annual charter and all that rot. Trying to understand your comparison of the two contexts. Thanks.
    2 points
  3. I have a mixed opinion on this. I know it’s nearly impossible to have 100% safety and society has changed over time in terms of understanding child sex abuse and how to increase protections. I do think BSA is doing most of what it can now. That said, I really struggle saying BSA wasn’t at fault pre 1990s. What is your thoughts when you hear that the head of the Big Brother program approach the BSA to work on preventing sex abuse in 1980 and the BSA did nothing. That psychologist in 1981 wrote to BSA leaders that they need to vet Scoutmasters more given the abuse. Nothing. That BSA
    2 points
  4. We've debated till our faces are blue about BSA being at fault for past abuses. Sadly, we're of different opinion here too. I can't blame BSA causing further harm by legally pursing bankruptcy. Society is foolish to think that revisiting these sins of the past ever heals the present. Even more foolish to think that any financial compensation corrects for damages. Blame the legislatures who extended liability from decades ago. Blame advocates who think that's a good idea to muck rake the past. Blame lawyers chasing ambulances. Blame empty promises saying you will get signific
    2 points
  5. I used to tell patrols: 1 scout, find another patrol; 2 scouts, your choice; 3 or more, you're a patrol. A lot of scouts enjoyed the smaller patrols. Everyone had to help and it was all very fluid. They could cook things that were too hard with 6 scouts. One patrol started their standard for dessert - melted chocolate and some sort of fruit. That patrol stuck together till everyone aged out for no other reason than melted chocolate and some sort of fruit. Well, that and they just got along, but they claimed it was the dessert. Thanks, that's a really good memory.
    2 points
  6. @seguru, welcome to the forum? Anyway, nobody said you can't express your opinion. But if you're not courteous then we will remove posts. Those are the rules.
    2 points
  7. I hope the judge listens to everyone with an appropriate grain of salt and makes her own plan. The quicker the better. At this point the lawyers are just sinking the wheels deeper into the mud, nothing is moving forward. I'd rather see some progress so the victims can get some closure, the volunteers can start rebuilding and this forum can get back to arguing about the patrol method.
    1 point
  8. I don't blame you at all but when you do move, you will be accomplishing exactly what the individuals and organizations who've been trying to destroy Scouting for decades want. Make no mistake -- some parties in these lawsuits are in it for justice, some are in it for revenge, some are in it for the money, and some are in it simply to destroy a pillar of traditional American culture and society. That last segment has been trying to destroy churches, Scouting, the military, law enforcement, etc. for decades and use any convenient avenue they can find. This doesn't diminish the very real hurt
    1 point
  9. This isn't DISSOLUTION of the LC. This is failure to recharter. The LC, as a separately incorporated entity, can live long after BSA is dust. But the minute the BSA charter gets revoked, they forfeit all property to BSA National. This is in both the Bylaws of BSA National as well as the LCs. As for this The moment they did so, BSA National and/or the sexual abuse claimants will be in court demanding either a) any such change be voided or b) declaring a BSA charter breach, in which case BSA claims the property "upon termination of a local council." The LCs are going to
    1 point
  10. @qwazse we only shut down last year when required. Then we started meeting at 2 different houses outside because the school was closed to us. We camped until Virginia reduced group sizes to 10. Then we continued meetings, but as individual patrols and shorter meetings outside. Once VA opened to groups of 100, we started activities again. First was our mulch fundraiser and now a campout. We had an outdoor Court of Honor without the potluck dinner we do in normal times. Everything is outside where Covid transmission is rare. We're doing our best to keep the program going with
    1 point
  11. Especially given the shell games some councils played (hello, Middle Tennessee) in trying to hide assets. The other item is that it opens some eyes. I can imagine that some LCs think "Well, there's no way we'll ever be forced to sell Camp XYZ." Or "Well, Camp XYZ is only worth $100, and the TCC thinks it is worth $1,000? Huh?" The other key is proportionality and equity in terms of ongoing operations. Say you are a local council with $1 million in assets. Based on that 70% of those assets ($700,000) are core essential in the form of two camps. There's just NO WAY we can give up
    1 point
  12. I see where you took my jocularity as a universal statement. I was riffing on the meeting moment. I have a screen writer's brain. Jim Stang: "Hey, now. We'd be more than happy to answer questions and have a little back and forth about all this. That may help advance the process and make some actual progress. Is that cool, Ms. Lauria?" Ms. Lauria: "Hard pass. That's a wrap."
    1 point
  13. From this negotiator's standpoint, making the other party aware that, "I know what you got in the bank, Jack, so don't try to evade or jack me around in this negotiation," is a big, big deal. That alone is important for the LCs to realize. The TCC wasn't getting full disclosure so they hired some heavy hitters and created their own full asset disclosure statement(s). "So, BSA and LCs? You can't hide what we already know, folks. Lookie here? We got your digits. Let's talk about how to get you a release of future liability, yes?"
    1 point
  14. Peakaboo! For all of you that just look at the "what's new" page, it looks like @Eagle1993 corralled that other thread about how superior Latin is, or whatever it was, and put it back here. You can continue here.
    1 point
  15. If I ran council X ... I would want to know what the TCC is looking for as a payout for a settlement. That way, I can go back to our leadership and determine ... do we fight or surrender. I know they didn't give actual values yet, but at least it gives me an idea of the process on how to get that so I can prepare.
    1 point
  16. One thing from me, after more publicly thanking you for this. Thank you. Sincerely. "There, but for the grace of God, go I." I appreciate this entire post. Good reflection and background for me. I can see your point in both paragraphs. Of course, none of this can be seen as "voluntary," per se. That's not your point and I get it. As I also said a few times, I agree that this was obviously not what they expected. Still, they should've braced themselves better, given some of the widely known research and their own internal data. Men don't come forward easily or early and the
    1 point
  17. There were various threads leading up to bankruptcy. It has been a long road. Pre 1990s, its clear that some in BSA leadership (it appears to be primarily National, but some LCs) actively hid cases of sexual abuse. There are now many quotes from BSA leaders (and other individuals including the Boys club) indicating that BSA hid abuse. This set the stage for what is happening now. BSA has seen a slow decline of participants since a 1990s surge. 2000 - 2018 ... BSA fought in court and public over gay/transgender youth & gay/transgender leaders. They managed to tick of
    1 point
  18. I think it's also important to point out that it seems like the people who are posting about this on this forum or are mostly lurking but popping in from time to time are... the relative success stories, if that would be the correct term? They were somehow able to function and hold jobs despite needing therapy and experiencing bleak episodes in their lives. The people who are not on here weighing in and likely not even included in the 83,000 claims are the ones who were largely lost. The ones who committed suicide, or turned around and became abusers themselves because that is a common sequela
    1 point
  19. First off, Welcome to the forum. Agreed, although Swimming and First Aid could be be earned in a day. It would be a full day but could be completed in a day. I think most Eagle MBs have requirements that would keep them from being able to be completed in a day. I wouldn't recommend them to be rushed through though. I recently had scouts go through proper Red Cross training for First Aid, CPR/AED, and Wilderness First Aid. I wondered to myself how well they would sit through the 16 hour Wilderness course but our 5 scouts did great. We had a great instructor and the scouts were more m
    1 point
  20. I saw someone selling it roadside in cut, stacked bundles the way you would sell firewood. People apparently use it for tomato stakes. Not sure how much you'd be able to sell though.
    1 point
  21. We had one campout where one patrol only had one scout. It wasn't planned that way, but the other scouts bailed out Friday of that week for one reason or another. The scout had the patrol food, so he said, why not. He got a big ovation from the other patrols at the end of camp before loading cars to go home. He had a lot of fun. Barry
    1 point
  22. Probably not the right sub forum but why not. My understanding of bamboo is that if it is not contained, you have a problem. I also know it costs a bunch to get the poles where I live, so maybe Etsy would be an option. It also makes for good pioneering poles. Much lighter than wood. Other than that, I'm ignorant about bamboo.
    1 point
  23. There were issues on my.scouting.org in 2019 where many scouters took the YPT training, but it was not recorded. I had to send a screen capture of proof that I completed YPT to my council, so they can manually update the official status with the BSA. I had to do the same with 5 others in my unit, until the issue was fixed late in 2019. This year I could not recharter anyone that did not have YPT up to date, so for my council over 99% of the scouters are in compliance. There are a few scouters whose YPT lapsed after recharter, but they ceased involvement in scouting after recharter. (Thus
    1 point
  24. Neither the BSA, a LC, a unit, or unit adult volunteer acts "in loco parentis." "The phrase "person in loco parentis" in R.C. 2907.03(A)(5) applies to a person who has assumed the dominant parental role and is relied upon by the child for support. This statutory provision was not designed for teachers, coaches, scout leaders, or any other persons who might temporarily have some disciplinary control over a child. Simply put, the statute applies to the people the child goes home to. State v. Noggle, 67 Ohio St. 3d 31, 33 (1993). Dale v. Boy Scouts of America, 160 N.J. 562 ,734 A.2d 1
    1 point
  25. In the opinion of the appeals court in Cordts v. Boy Scouts of America , an unpaid volunteer is subect to the same tests for liability as en employee, a disatinctly minority analysis. Moreover, the Court found that the the misuse of a volunteers' authority to facilitate sexual misconduct is, generally, solely for personal purposes and entirely unrelated to one’s occupation. Accordingly, the appeals court found the scout leader’s sexual molestation of the scouts constituted a substantial deviation from his duties for personal purposes. The appeals court, therefore, concluded that such conduct
    1 point
  26. I've already used the phrase Respondeat superior. Add in (in all seriousness) that BSA, the LC, or the CO was acting in loco parentis and we're all set.
    1 point
  27. If the end result is innocent scouts and scouters forced to pay into a victim fund to keep the program running for their scouts, my first reaction is not to complain. We'll move to another organization or quit scouting. Fixing one wrong with another wrong might be legal, but there is a point where scouts will not see the value in the program and cut their losses.
    1 point
  28. 1 point
  29. Dumb question ... By the TCC inviting the LCs directly and beginning direct discussions with LCs, isn't that TCC effectively acknowledging the LCs as separate entities ? ... incorporated separately ... paying taxes separately ... owning property separately ... now beginning to negotiate with TCC separately? Further, doesn't it create evidence that BSA doesn't control the council leadership? (presidents, scout execs, etc?) ... council leaders negotiating directly with TCC ... choosing to opt in or opt out of a larger settlement ... That lack of control is further evidence tha
    -1 points
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