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  1. 6 points
    Do we really need to revisit the topic of the highly manipulative surveys that were selectively distributed and strangely worded to ensure a pre-determined outcome? Please don't insult the intelligence of this forum by trying to assert that those bogus survey results were in any way a fair representation of support.
  2. 4 points
    As you may know a kidnapped Wisconsin teenager escaped her captor and the first person she found was a retired child social worker Jeanne Nutter walking her dog Henry. Amazing, how at times, there is just the right person or group of people there at the right time when a need arises. She needed to be in a safe place. Safety, Safety, Safety, ... kids need to be safe...ask questions later, talk softly, few questions...dusk off my Child protection skills... no matter what I did that child was going to be safe - Jeanne Nutter. Scout Salute to Jeanne Nutter.
  3. 3 points
    I'm not sure if you're trying to make my point for me, or rebut. 🤣 Either way. My point is that there are much bigger and more powerful forces at play than just "The Improved Scouting Program Sucked." Which I believe it did hurt Scouting. I don't believe it was a decisive as some folks make it out to be. I could be wrong, and I am generalizing, but it's my understanding that the BSA is less successful in the inner cities as it is in the suburbs and rural areas of America. That's not to say there aren't strong pockets of Scouting in urban areas, or areas where there are significant non-white membership. That's also not to say there's something wrong with white people being the majority of membership in the BSA. It would follow that since the US is majority white and historically has been, and the BSA plays host to many generational families of Scouts, that the BSA would be majority white. The BSA doesn't publish member demographics that I could find easily, but they do publish data on "Available youth." Notice that for the millennial and generation X folks, the ones who are having Scout age children now, are less likely to white than their previous generations. You can find that stat on page 22 of the report. Almost a 10% drop from Boomers to Millenials/Gen X, which would make up the last 20-30 years or so of Scouting youth. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/media/ES_American_Households.pdf This data is for the late 2000's early 2010's. US Demographic data over time can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States In short, my argument is that the BSA is primarily a less urban, majority white organization, that many immigrants and non-whites don't feel a particular connection to. Give the decline in birth rates, stagnating of white population in the US, increasing urbanization, and population growth via immigration of non-white people, the BSA has failed to adapt in far more ways than just the poorly thought out "Improved" Scouting program. There's an element of failure to market the program to people who aren't part of that core constituency. That's not to say the BSA hasn't tried, but I'd argue that they've failed. That's both a BSA failure, and local leadership failure to broaden the tent and recruit a more diverse membership. We can see by Scouting's global reach, that Scouting's message and ideals are about as close to universal as we could hope for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Organization_of_the_Scout_Movement_members Combine that with all youth organizations in the US facing membership declines, slap on some poorly managed sex abuse, some culture war controversy, and it's pretty easy to see how the BSA's decline in membership is multifaceted and complex. It's far too simple to say "Improved Scouting Program killed the BSA.There's a bunch of variables and those things may or may not be a significant contributing factor.
  4. 3 points
    They're scouts. I doubt they'll smell sweet.
  5. 2 points
    And that is in fact the real issue isn't it? The quoted statement starts with the statement the improvement and ends with in whatever form it works best. Many view the changes as an improvement and hope to see these changes as a better (re:improved) offering of Scouting. Other view the changes as not in fact an improvement and further movement away from Scouting roots and sadly see these changes as lesser offering of Scouting. Unfortunately all we have is anecdotal evidence, supposition, and guesses for either case to be made. Real challenge is that National BSA has been less than forthcoming on the real reason. Faulty surveys, public opinion, townhall meetings, and "unanimous" votes do not a groundswell of support make. Now we are getting into the real rubber meets the road and working to spool up numerous units. That in and of itself will be a pretty good challenge. If you work with a unit keeping one that has several years of history and a good track record is a challenge already. Building all of that from scratch is daunting. Sad truth is that @Eagledad correctly noted earlier today that this was a survival mode change, simple math. As noted in the 1978 classic Animal House "we need the dues" Now a year and some months following the announcement of Girls being able to join Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts sorry Scouts BSA there have been many other challenges. Linked troops solution and vague answers about are we really going coed? YPT that is clearly not balance as one declared gender is required to have a leader of similar gender present, no such requirement for the other gender 20% of the registered membership and CO's leaving by the end of 2019 A name change for the flagship branch of the organization Extension for requirements so current joiners in 2019 get 2 years to earn the vaunted Eagle Scout award A lawsuit by another organization over use of the names Girls and Scouts Possibly going into bankruptcy to stave off lawsuit payments Summit payments timeline keeps coming down the tracks Clearly no one knows if the changes will be an improvement, clearly no one knows if the new scouting "look" will work best. Will this result in a net increase in youth being served? No one can tell, we are sort of moving along on a wing and a prayer. However, this is where we are now, moving ahead and no way to go back. One cautionary note. In the 1970's the decision was to reinvent the Boy Scouts program and roll out the Improved Scouting Program (ISP). At the end of 1970 BSA membership was 6,287,284. At the end of 1980 BSA membership was 4,326,082. That is a reduction of over 30%. Whatever may happen, BSA will not be able to weather another improvement to the program along those lines.
  6. 2 points
    I agree with @gblotter. Telling boys about surveys in which they likely did not participate is useless ... especially when the surveys did not address the name of the organization that hopefully they will one day lead. I've experienced this first first hand with scouts and unit numbers as troops merged. Quick summary: the older scouts felt left behind when a vote went against using the number of the older troop. There was resentment. Then a year later, when the new CO wanted to charge rent, the CC decided to charter under the old CO and old #. So, the next round of crossovers kept that #. I made it clear repeatedly, that nobody had to pull off numbers of their uniform. No other troop was using either #. So, we have two numbers that can hang on sleeves and pass uniform inspection. Earn respect through cheerful service. You'll be fine. Unfortunately, for our older scouts, the back-and-forth was too much. Most left scouting at life rank. Boys are sentimental. Can we blame them? We taught them to love tradition.
  7. 2 points
    Even though it is a different topic I can answer your question. Your right, when I earned Eagle I did not have the cooking merit badge. However, I cooked all the time at home, did try cooking on campouts etc so for me it would have been no more work! We did not need Merit Badge workbooks to work on Merit Badges but still went through each requirement thoroughly. Today I see many MB counselors and leaders "teaching" the material, say at a Troop meeting and signing off the requirement and NOT following the Learn, Test, Review method. Too many adults are afraid to "fail" a Scout and ask them to study some more and retest. I have recently seen Life Scouts that have never used flint and steel to start a fire, cannot tie lashings or knots, and cannot repeat the Outdoor code. I just took over as SM and we had a Life Scout move to the troop in July last year and turns 18 this year. He has not held 1 qualified Leadership position ever, but his dad signed it off for Star. After talking with him to try and give him the opportunity to hold a qualified position as Life Scout (which he has not fulfilled properly) before turning 18, his dad wanted to argue. Some might roll over but I will have not sign the Eagle Application and will be happy to explain all this to Council. The SM conference should involve some testing of the basic requirements, otherwise these Scouts are slipping through the cracks. BSA has a hypocritical Uniform policy. The Scouts need it, but cannot be required. We ALWAYS had uniforms, and did not question it! We are not able to require uniforms for SM Conference or BOR? If we are following the 8 Methods of Scouting, Uniforms should be required. Today, many troop are more Glamping than camping. They have gas stoves, benches, tables, plastic "mess kits", fancy dining fly's. The parents are buying Taj Mahal tents for "backpacking" trips. What happened to the basics, cooking over fire, enjoying the outdoors? Luckily my son loves the basics and the cold weather camping and keeps asking when we are going to do it. Well I am now SM so these ideals will be implemented to one degree or another. These are just a few of what has changed, maybe not on paper but how the Program is being run!
  8. 2 points
    Thanks for the replies. I feel that the BSA is getting lax on many rules and policies and that means the honors are becoming less meaningful. I earned my Eagle in 1991 and worked hard. It seems now the BSA basically says sign it off and do not question. Have been an OA Brotherhood since 1990 and that meant something, as I was also on the dance team. Again, OA has seemed to lighten the requirements for this year. Not trying to be a Drill Sergeant but again these honors are becoming a dime a dozen. NOT every Scouts will earn/deserve Eagle nor will everyone earn/deserve to be an Arrowman. I will have a chat with the Scouts as mentioned and gather the scope of their involvement in the family camp.
  9. 2 points
    As a former CC & CM, this is 100% correct. The decision on who is an adult volunteer is up to the CC & COR. If either of your rejects a volunteer - it's done. Since you both don't want him to be CM - this is easy - he's not the Cubmaster. You don't need anyone's permission to reject him - it's your call.
  10. 2 points
    You as CC and the COR are both responsible for approving all adult leaders in your unit. Since you're both on the same page that this person should not be your CM, and it sounds like there are some red flags that would pop up on a background check, this should be a short meeting. You need to let this person know that their services are no longer needed. Inform your DE and unit commissioner of your decision. But ultimately the decision is all on you. Your council will let you know that this is a matter between you, your chartered organization, and the individual who wants to be your Cubmaster. They still, though, need to be kept in the loop on what is transpiring. The council would get involved only if this application ever made its way to the registrar's desk with all that missing information. Because this person has not had his application approved by you and the COR, submitted to council, or had a background check passed, he should not be at meetings attempting to perform the duties of a Cubmaster. His actions alone should disqualify him: he refused to sign the religious principles declaration, refuses to authorize a background check, and I'd be willing to bet he hasn't taken YPT. He needs to be informed that his services are no longer needed.
  11. 2 points
    Like many of us who post here I'm just a lowly volunteer. I work mostly with the OA at the chapter level where about a dozen troops make up 90% of its active members. As far as I have been able to ascertain none of those Scout participated in the survey. In fact they were totally unaware that the survey even existed. I learned about it only from this forum. I heard nothing from my district, nothing from my Council, nothing from my lodge. Nary a word could I find pertaining to it on the many pages of the council website. So please excuse me if I am also a bit of a Skeptic.
  12. 2 points
    Would you please post where you got those results? I have been looking everywhere, and cannot find the results of the membership poll BSA took after teh town halls in 2017. All the stats I have seen comes from non-member surveys. I know in my neck of the woods, it is no where close to 75% for the membership change. Maybe 35-40 overall, and youth is more like 5% for.
  13. 2 points
    Their response makes little sense. Their troop is not affected - it remains all male. Since they have invested so much time in Scouting, why should they leave? Allowing girls to become Scouts in the BSA at younger ages than 14 does not affect their troop. Trademark issues required a name change of the program. Surveys of the youth (and absolutely every group measured including volunteers, donors, Eagle Scouts, the OA and others showed a similar level of support) in Scouting showed a 75% or greater support for the addition of girls so they had a voice. The youth were in favor of adding girls. The focus has not changed from developing character and leadership in today's youth for tomorrow's citizens. So they have a voice, their platform was not successful, so they should have learned that is life for all of us. They should be encouraged to continue as perseverance and resilience is something that we all hope as volunteers that we are helping the youth to do. Obviously, I have no first hand knowledge beyond units that I am a volunteer, but this kind of reaction seems to represent the adult volunteer views influencing the boys. It is sad that because the program is being offered to more youth that some now wish to discourage youth from participating in a positive life changing program.
  14. 2 points
    @Monkeytamer, all the best to your clutch of Eagles! I would be remiss if I didn't encourage you to tell them that theirs still work to be done. There a Palms -- not just insta-palms -- to be earned, Hornaday Awards, Patrol leaders to train, camps to staff, adventures to be had, etc ... There's nothing greater than a bunch of fellas modelling scouting to the rest of the troop without fretting over advancement. The rest of their terms should be awesome.
  15. 2 points
    Richard Smith, 75, known to those on the trail and many in Canton as “Old Scout,” completed the Appalachian Trail hike in what is known as the “AT Flip-Flop.” Instead of hiking from Georgia’s Springer Mountain through to Maine’s Mount Katahdin, he hiked from Harpers Ferry in West Virginia to Maine, took a combination of trains and buses back to Harpers Ferry and completed the hike back to Springer Mountain in December. “Most people start their through-hike at Springer Mountain in Georgia and hike north to Mt. Katahdin. I didn't want to do it that way, because the trail (has) too many people hiking north at the same time. By doing a flip-flop, I avoided the crowds and had much more private time. There were days when I didn't see another person on the trail,” he said. ... Smith said some of his most fond memories are from hiking and camping with his son, who is an Eagle Scout in local Troop 465. “I tell everyone that I got as much out of Boy Scouts as he did. I never was a Boy Scout when I was a kid, but the scouting program has been an important part of my life,” Smith said. ... Hikers older than 70 account for only 2 percent of the through-hikes, while hikers ages 20 – 39 account for 70 percent. More at source https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/ledger/year-old-canton-resident-completes-appalachian-trail/article_88e061c8-15cb-11e9-b991-fbe801aba9ae.html
  16. 2 points
    I’d report this event to the local council Advancement chair and if applicable, the host council Advancement chair. What is described is simply not acceptable. At an out of district event once, I was asked to “teach” and sign off on a MB in two hours. I asked coordinator if he was nuts. He told me this was what they promised the youth. i told him goodbye.
  17. 2 points
    A few "pearls" from my treks: * The chuckwagon dinner is a great change from freeze dried but dont expect too much. The two times Ive had it, it is commercial-size (boil in the bag) dinty moore beef stew and dutch over cobbler. As I said, a nice change of pace but it is really easy to over eat and get sick (dont ask how I know). * We did cowboy action shooting the first year it was offered so things may have changed since then. We used 22cal revolvers loaded a single shot at a time. It was fun because it was pistols but it was really pretty "meh" if you have done much shooting. * They never seemed to get tired of tomahawks. * Burro packing is an interesting experience. Both times we had a youth who has horses so he knew how to get the animal moving. I have read stories of people who were not so fortunate. * I am not aware of any cabins available to sleep in. Yes there are some to tour, we like Hunting Lodge. There is one place where you sleep in a lean-to type shelter on a platform on the side of the hill. Dont recall the camp but it is in the SW part of the ranch. * Our guys really liked the sweat lodge and the burro racing * It was so-so for the guys but the adults all really enjoyed the re-dedication to Scouting program (and the cabin) at Zastrow camp * Dry camps are not bad, you just have to plan ahead a bit. YOu've probably heard about eating dinner for lunch that day. * How much down time you have is very dependent on how organized and efficient the crew is. If they take 2 hours to get out of camp in the morning and have a long hike they are likely to miss program at the next camp. If you know they are slow to get on the trail and/or slow to hike, you may want to encourage low miles so they dont miss activities. * If you do Baldy, I suggest having it later in the trek so you have your "trail legs" under you. I have only done it on a layover day - just enough packs for essentials and to pick up food on the way back down. Hope that helps....
  18. 1 point
    I am in the Longhouse Council in Syracuse, NY. We have had a Commissioner College for as long as I can remember. Over the last few years this has evolved to an area event covering NE region area 3 and the councils take turns as the chancellor and finding staff. It has been held at a school hear is Syracuse for a number of years. We must be doing things right as they have had attendees in the past as far away as Cleveland, OH I only got as far as a bachelors degree but taught classes at this in the past. I have plans to attend his year as they are offering the Powder Horn Course directors conference which our council has been trying to hold for a few years
  19. 1 point
    Did the two young men pitch their own tent and sleep as Scouts? Did they assist with camp cooking or cleaning, or help the Pack do things? If yes, I’d count it. If they were bumps on a log, I’d pass. It’s your call as SM.
  20. 1 point
    What makes this worse is that Environmental Science does not have to be done this way. Half of the requirements can be done by doing experiments, for crying out loud. 8 hours of lecture and fill-in-the-blanks? That sounds awful.
  21. 1 point
    Where they just family camping with the Cubs or were they acting as Den chiefs or similar roles. I would approve it if the boys were actively helping and training the cubs. But not if it was just a family campout. Just my two cents
  22. 1 point
    My default answer is maybe.....Here's what I believe the requirement states (from https://oa-bsa.org/about/membership): Have experienced 15 nights of camping while registered with a troop, crew, or ship within the two years immediately prior to the election. The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of at least five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement; the balance of the camping (10 nights) must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps of, at most, three nights each. Ship nights may be counted as camping for Sea Scouts. Now, beyond the fact the final clause could be interpreted to mean any camping is acceptable for the 10 nights, (it specifically doesn't say BSA), the Cub family camp is clearly BSA. My decision point would be this, if they were along to help with the camp out, putting on an event, cooking, even participating/being an example to the Cubs, I'd be inclined to say yes they count. If they were drug along by mom and/or dad and spent the weekend playing on their phones, I'd say no.
  23. 1 point
    Come next month, anything larger than a troop event will be de facto coed (and depending on your troop, everything might be coed). I don't see how anyone could be lulled into believing the programs are separate.
  24. 1 point
    The judge didn't think so. The newspaper didn't think so. The scout unit didn't think so. I think it is time you wake up and smell the coffee. A felony conviction is not insignificant.
  25. 1 point
    I think every person and organization who opposes a mining and drilling site should required to propose an alternate site. We have to mine and drill somewhere. NIMBY (not in my back yard) is not a reasonable attitude.
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