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  1. 3 points
    My default answer is maybe.....Here's what I believe the requirement states (from https://oa-bsa.org/about/membership): Have experienced 15 nights of camping while registered with a troop, crew, or ship within the two years immediately prior to the election. The 15 nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of at least five consecutive nights of overnight camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. Only five nights of the long-term camp may be credited toward the 15-night camping requirement; the balance of the camping (10 nights) must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps of, at most, three nights each. Ship nights may be counted as camping for Sea Scouts. Now, beyond the fact the final clause could be interpreted to mean any camping is acceptable for the 10 nights, (it specifically doesn't say BSA), the Cub family camp is clearly BSA. My decision point would be this, if they were along to help with the camp out, putting on an event, cooking, even participating/being an example to the Cubs, I'd be inclined to say yes they count. If they were drug along by mom and/or dad and spent the weekend playing on their phones, I'd say no.
  2. 2 points
    As a former CC & CM, this is 100% correct. The decision on who is an adult volunteer is up to the CC & COR. If either of your rejects a volunteer - it's done. Since you both don't want him to be CM - this is easy - he's not the Cubmaster. You don't need anyone's permission to reject him - it's your call.
  3. 2 points
    You as CC and the COR are both responsible for approving all adult leaders in your unit. Since you're both on the same page that this person should not be your CM, and it sounds like there are some red flags that would pop up on a background check, this should be a short meeting. You need to let this person know that their services are no longer needed. Inform your DE and unit commissioner of your decision. But ultimately the decision is all on you. Your council will let you know that this is a matter between you, your chartered organization, and the individual who wants to be your Cubmaster. They still, though, need to be kept in the loop on what is transpiring. The council would get involved only if this application ever made its way to the registrar's desk with all that missing information. Because this person has not had his application approved by you and the COR, submitted to council, or had a background check passed, he should not be at meetings attempting to perform the duties of a Cubmaster. His actions alone should disqualify him: he refused to sign the religious principles declaration, refuses to authorize a background check, and I'd be willing to bet he hasn't taken YPT. He needs to be informed that his services are no longer needed.
  4. 2 points
    Like many of us who post here I'm just a lowly volunteer. I work mostly with the OA at the chapter level where about a dozen troops make up 90% of its active members. As far as I have been able to ascertain none of those Scout participated in the survey. In fact they were totally unaware that the survey even existed. I learned about it only from this forum. I heard nothing from my district, nothing from my Council, nothing from my lodge. Nary a word could I find pertaining to it on the many pages of the council website. So please excuse me if I am also a bit of a Skeptic.
  5. 2 points
    Would you please post where you got those results? I have been looking everywhere, and cannot find the results of the membership poll BSA took after teh town halls in 2017. All the stats I have seen comes from non-member surveys. I know in my neck of the woods, it is no where close to 75% for the membership change. Maybe 35-40 overall, and youth is more like 5% for.
  6. 2 points
    Their response makes little sense. Their troop is not affected - it remains all male. Since they have invested so much time in Scouting, why should they leave? Allowing girls to become Scouts in the BSA at younger ages than 14 does not affect their troop. Trademark issues required a name change of the program. Surveys of the youth (and absolutely every group measured including volunteers, donors, Eagle Scouts, the OA and others showed a similar level of support) in Scouting showed a 75% or greater support for the addition of girls so they had a voice. The youth were in favor of adding girls. The focus has not changed from developing character and leadership in today's youth for tomorrow's citizens. So they have a voice, their platform was not successful, so they should have learned that is life for all of us. They should be encouraged to continue as perseverance and resilience is something that we all hope as volunteers that we are helping the youth to do. Obviously, I have no first hand knowledge beyond units that I am a volunteer, but this kind of reaction seems to represent the adult volunteer views influencing the boys. It is sad that because the program is being offered to more youth that some now wish to discourage youth from participating in a positive life changing program.
  7. 2 points
    @Monkeytamer, all the best to your clutch of Eagles! I would be remiss if I didn't encourage you to tell them that theirs still work to be done. There a Palms -- not just insta-palms -- to be earned, Hornaday Awards, Patrol leaders to train, camps to staff, adventures to be had, etc ... There's nothing greater than a bunch of fellas modelling scouting to the rest of the troop without fretting over advancement. The rest of their terms should be awesome.
  8. 2 points
    Richard Smith, 75, known to those on the trail and many in Canton as “Old Scout,” completed the Appalachian Trail hike in what is known as the “AT Flip-Flop.” Instead of hiking from Georgia’s Springer Mountain through to Maine’s Mount Katahdin, he hiked from Harpers Ferry in West Virginia to Maine, took a combination of trains and buses back to Harpers Ferry and completed the hike back to Springer Mountain in December. “Most people start their through-hike at Springer Mountain in Georgia and hike north to Mt. Katahdin. I didn't want to do it that way, because the trail (has) too many people hiking north at the same time. By doing a flip-flop, I avoided the crowds and had much more private time. There were days when I didn't see another person on the trail,” he said. ... Smith said some of his most fond memories are from hiking and camping with his son, who is an Eagle Scout in local Troop 465. “I tell everyone that I got as much out of Boy Scouts as he did. I never was a Boy Scout when I was a kid, but the scouting program has been an important part of my life,” Smith said. ... Hikers older than 70 account for only 2 percent of the through-hikes, while hikers ages 20 – 39 account for 70 percent. More at source https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/ledger/year-old-canton-resident-completes-appalachian-trail/article_88e061c8-15cb-11e9-b991-fbe801aba9ae.html
  9. 2 points
    I’d report this event to the local council Advancement chair and if applicable, the host council Advancement chair. What is described is simply not acceptable. At an out of district event once, I was asked to “teach” and sign off on a MB in two hours. I asked coordinator if he was nuts. He told me this was what they promised the youth. i told him goodbye.
  10. 2 points
    A few "pearls" from my treks: * The chuckwagon dinner is a great change from freeze dried but dont expect too much. The two times Ive had it, it is commercial-size (boil in the bag) dinty moore beef stew and dutch over cobbler. As I said, a nice change of pace but it is really easy to over eat and get sick (dont ask how I know). * We did cowboy action shooting the first year it was offered so things may have changed since then. We used 22cal revolvers loaded a single shot at a time. It was fun because it was pistols but it was really pretty "meh" if you have done much shooting. * They never seemed to get tired of tomahawks. * Burro packing is an interesting experience. Both times we had a youth who has horses so he knew how to get the animal moving. I have read stories of people who were not so fortunate. * I am not aware of any cabins available to sleep in. Yes there are some to tour, we like Hunting Lodge. There is one place where you sleep in a lean-to type shelter on a platform on the side of the hill. Dont recall the camp but it is in the SW part of the ranch. * Our guys really liked the sweat lodge and the burro racing * It was so-so for the guys but the adults all really enjoyed the re-dedication to Scouting program (and the cabin) at Zastrow camp * Dry camps are not bad, you just have to plan ahead a bit. YOu've probably heard about eating dinner for lunch that day. * How much down time you have is very dependent on how organized and efficient the crew is. If they take 2 hours to get out of camp in the morning and have a long hike they are likely to miss program at the next camp. If you know they are slow to get on the trail and/or slow to hike, you may want to encourage low miles so they dont miss activities. * If you do Baldy, I suggest having it later in the trek so you have your "trail legs" under you. I have only done it on a layover day - just enough packs for essentials and to pick up food on the way back down. Hope that helps....
  11. 2 points
    I feel badly for your son, and also for the other boys. None of them "earned" the mB, and worse none gained much of anything from the "adult association" nor from the class. I AM a trained, certified educator and as a mB counselor I refuse to "teach a class" and I abhor the use of the workbooks. Scouts is not supposed to be school; nothing of the sort. I am saddened that many requirements tend to gravitate towards school-like work and districts/councils have mB "colleges". This makes advancement no longer a method, but the purpose; IMO that is wrong.
  12. 2 points
    Where they just family camping with the Cubs or were they acting as Den chiefs or similar roles. I would approve it if the boys were actively helping and training the cubs. But not if it was just a family campout. Just my two cents
  13. 2 points
    2 Scouts (or 1 Scout and a buddy) meeting with 1 counselor. Source: explanation given to Scouts, found in Boy Scout Handbook, for earning a merit badge.
  14. 2 points
    Not sure if this is the right place for this: OK so here is my post mortem of the Philmont Winter Adventure trip. Fact: We are from Texas and not accustomed to cold weather. We were a crew of mixed youth with 40% of the youth not knowing the others. 50% of the Adults were mixed and didn’t know the others. Overview: This was an amazing adventure that pushed the youth (and adults) to limits that they never knew they could overcome. They not only survived the experience, they had a fun time doing it. They all would rather not be in a tent in sub-zero weather again and would rather be cabin based during the nights. But this experience taught them how they could survive the elements in a manner they could not have learned without doing it. They all got to attempt to snowshoe, cross country ski, sled, and downhill ski. Sledding and downhill skiing was their favorite activities. Which is not surprising. Day 1: We drove from Austin to Amarillo. https://photos.app.goo.gl/RTbXHwGC6uN76qkH8 We stayed at the Kwahadi museum overnight. There was snow on the ground but it was warm inside. In fact, too warm. Sleeping arrangements where ground pads and sleeping bags on a cement floor. https://photos.app.goo.gl/gvXE3DNsDDHBjoyt5 We ate dinner at the Big Texan Steak Ranch restaurant. The food was meh, but you go there for the experience. It was about $20-30 a head, more that we were looking for but it worked out. https://photos.app.goo.gl/mdQy5u4yMTpYk8dn6 Day 2: We drove from Amarillo to Philmont. Stop at the Subway in a gas station in Springer just off of I-25. That is the last food until Philmont. Don’t ask why I know this….. https://photos.app.goo.gl/NsLUWXZk4nhVpmmg6 Arrival at Philmont, we met our ranger and he guides us through the process. You turn in your paperwork and start the gear checkout process. Philmont provides all the necessary gear so it is pretty easy and they want you to stay alive. After gear check out, you have dinner in the dining hall and then attend a presentation about how to survive in the snow. We started experiencing some crew storming already at this point(Mainly the adults). It is cold and people are starting to get on edge. https://photos.app.goo.gl/rpf9uCYzirJxKxmJ9 You prepare the you gear for the backcountry on the sleds and what stays in the dorms for when you return. Day 3: You do a medical re-check to ensure you will survive. https://photos.app.goo.gl/mLiseiEZpXGbYqPS8 Pack the sleds of gear into the trucks and head out to the backcountry. The eating process begins….. You have two 1-gallon bags of food that you are supposed to continually eat for the next two days, in order to not freeze to death. You will become sick of eating. It is work to continue snacking. I never thought I would say that. After about a 40 minute drive you arrive at the base of the path that you will take to your campsite. You reassemble the gear sleds, don snowshoes, and begin the 2 mile hike up the hill in the snow dragging your gear via a gear snow sled. This is much harder than we expected but we made it to base camp in Miranda just under Mt. Baldy. It was gorgeous! https://photos.app.goo.gl/h1TYE7AcDp7J25ai7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/zzDtEkXs7tWhKBE37 Tents are setup and the snow kitchen is made. By the time this is done, it is almost time to eat dinner and bed down. It is surprising how long it takes to get to this point. Dinner is the only hot meal of the day and it is boiled in a pot and eaten directly from the packaging. It isn’t that bad. https://photos.app.goo.gl/L6NbPjYRPnNiJdCG6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/dUEn5dd7pi7gzqFd6 You boil water and put it in a Nalgene water bottle for warmth. You go to bed at 6pm, because the temperature drops like a rock. You no bundle up in you sleeping bag and all your gear in a tiny tent until 6am when the sun returns. This was the hardest part. It is freezing (-4 degrees), you are trapped in a tiny tent and it is dark and isolated. No noise, no light, no heat…. Some flip out at this point…. (ok, that was me). After the panic and bailing out of the tent for a short time you attempt to sleep again. Now if you look up in the sky while you see the most amazing sky. I personally saw several shooting stars. It is gorgeous and freezing at the same time. Boots were difficult to remove because the shoe laces were frozen together. You fight the urge to tend to natures call because you don't want to struggle with the boots, get dressed, and get out of the tent. You give in and go through the procedure to go. When you can’t sleep like me, you gets some nice night sky pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/DQR2fmQH4xtinYyEA https://photos.app.goo.gl/mDAxWep5CmHS93CYA Day 4: You wake up when the sun is out and escape the dreaded tent. You start eating….. again…… https://photos.app.goo.gl/scVPGA4PgHkFV3gX6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/t3wDjqu2Kb7K2TEP7 They begin working on building a Quinzee. While we waited for the snow to settle we tried cross country skiing and headed down the hill to sled. https://photos.app.goo.gl/zVY3MyRRRFQ4tFHHA We joined up with Troop/Crew 464 from Pearland, TX and had a fun time sledding together. We then had a competition against each other showing off our skills we learned on the snow already. We had a relay race that included cross country skiing, snow shoeing, and sledding. Everyone tried their best and had a great time. https://photos.app.goo.gl/yfjhydcdSs3jURbd8 The quinzhee was finished but nobody was brave enough to sleep in it. After dinner, we scurried into our tents for another cold night, this time was warmer at -2. And sleeping was easier this night. Day 5: After waking up we worked together as a team to pack up base camp and load up our sleds. The walk down the hill with the sleds took 1/3 the amount of time on the way up. https://photos.app.goo.gl/rpKFKmmMRk1nGtYa9 Then we headed back to Philmont base camp. Turned in our gear and headed off to go pick up our downhill skis from the ski resort. Made it back to Philmont for a relaxing night in a heated cabin. We slowly thaw and feel everything is too hot, even though it is cold, we have acclimated already to sub-zero temps. Day 6: We headed out early in a morning for a day of downhill skiing. The group took a lesson together and learned the basic skills of skiing. The rest of the day was spent testing out what we learned at Red River Ski resort. The ride back to Philmont was filled with tales of their skiing crashes and laughter. Everyone was very happy. https://photos.app.goo.gl/B2aSZLN61M6Grfi9A Day 7: We visited the National Scouting Museum and saw historical pieces from the start of scouting and OA. It was a pretty cool sight. https://photos.app.goo.gl/dv21VYZrJj5NEpS19 We headed off towards home. We stopped in Amarillo at Cadillac ranch and got to spray paint buried cadillacs. (It is a sanctioned are exhibit that is unique) https://photos.app.goo.gl/EVDNrxgoKBJBXcEM7 That night we stayed at a church in Lubbock. We were guests of Troop 406 that has been around since 1925. They were very welcoming and it was really cool to see the pictures from the many years the troop has been around. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ozDcCjQ8W6hW2mgeA https://photos.app.goo.gl/N5JUSVr4ojBr9gs27 Day 8: We finally drove the final stretch home and finally arrived to our homes and families to tell the tales of our trip. It was a very hard trip for our scouts but it is a trip they will always remember for the rest of their lives.
  15. 1 point
    Not knowing Monkeytamers son I cannot speak for him or his friends. But more than a few older scouts that I do know are also planning on leaving or have already departed. It does not seem that it is so much an issue with girls troops as much as the boys feel that the troop belongs to them. they have spent a third of their life in it after all. They deeply resent National changing its membership, its focus, its very name. They have no voice, no platform, so they vote with the only means left to them. Their feet.
  16. 1 point
    What makes this worse is that Environmental Science does not have to be done this way. Half of the requirements can be done by doing experiments, for crying out loud. 8 hours of lecture and fill-in-the-blanks? That sounds awful.
  17. 1 point
    Got to thinking about my response and wanted to expand a bit here. I'm 100% behind being a member of the OA meaning something and there being a high bar for entry. I was not an OA member as a Scout and always looked up to those guys. As an adult, I've never been able to get to summer camp as a volunteer. So, even when I had 15 nights of camping, I refused to let myself be considered for membership by the troop committee because I didn't meet the rules. I'm also 100% behind units making common sense decisions when the info is imperfect. It's Scouting - not a law firm. So, sometimes you look at what's written and say "this is what they really meant." Yet, these OA elgibility rules have been in place for a long time. My read was the same as in this thread. The eligibility requirements don't say BSA camping. They are very specific about what long term camping means - but yet very vague on short term camping. So, I've got to interpret that as "any short term camping is fine." Why? I'm going to wager that any Scout who's going family camping enough to meet the OA eligibilty requirements as a result - is probably a pretty avid camper. A scout going on a camping trip with a Cub Scout pack - again, is probably a pretty involved Scout. Could folks fall through the cracks - yes. But, that's what OA elections are for. Let the Scouts sort this out. Now, if the OA really meant "BSA camping" - then the OA ought to update the rules. If they do - then great. I'll support it 100%.
  18. 1 point
    Right. Here's how I'd read this: I see only two restrictions on how the 10 nights are spent: not more than 3 nights on a single trip must happen while the Scout is a registered troop, crew, or ship member. This could be troop camping, cub camping, family camping, friend camping, solo camping, whatever. It's not vague so much as it's not what you'd expect. I think the point is that it's the society of honor campers. Whether you're camping with the BSA or somewhere else - you're still camping.
  19. 1 point
    If the weekend was just families, who mostly (or even all) happen to be cub scouts but it wasn't actually a pack or den planned weekend, then absolutely no. it would be like counting your sons nights if it was just your own family that went camping at the state park. If these kids were there and did anything to show leadership- even if it was helping the cubs to start their campfire, teach a knot, etc. I would approve myself. As others point out, you have the final say on whether the scout has meet the 20 night requirement or not, no one from your lodge is going to ask for records, so trust your own gut on this. The "standards of the Boy Scouts of America" only applies to the long-term camping requirement- that's to say we wouldn't count the nights a kid spent at the private Camp Lackawanda that is more like a resort than a BSA summer camp.
  20. 1 point
    @Proudeagle welcome to scouter.com
  21. 1 point
    Just gave it a try and got the following error message: Requests to the server have been blocked by an extension. This is at work, on a school computer, so could have something to do with our network. I will look at it again when I get home. I did a number of the new Scouts BSA segments earlier in the week, but with all the updates they are pushing out, I would not be surprised if there are issues.
  22. 1 point
    Come next month, anything larger than a troop event will be de facto coed (and depending on your troop, everything might be coed). I don't see how anyone could be lulled into believing the programs are separate.
  23. 1 point
    Not necessarily. I have been focusing on the question you proposed to us. Now you are talking about an entirely different issue. Next year, the unit will have several options they can choose from. They can accept him with open arms, they can deny his son from joining the unit, or they can avoid both extremes and choose some middle ground that they can live with. Of course, the ability to find and choose a middle ground depends largely on the cooperation of the parent. If you think the unit will have to "swallow it" and do more than "tolerate" his attendance, you are very sadly mistaken. You may feel that they are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, but they may feel that you are trying to make a molehill out of a mountain.
  24. 1 point
    I think every person and organization who opposes a mining and drilling site should required to propose an alternate site. We have to mine and drill somewhere. NIMBY (not in my back yard) is not a reasonable attitude.
  25. 1 point
    I suppose a scout should be treated the same way about his uniform as about his actions. I want scouts to act and look like scouts. I also realize they'll slip and make mistakes. My scouts are all a work in progress so for that reason I don't worry about uniforms being perfect. On the other hand, a scout that refuses to wear a uniform likely does not act much like a scout (unless he can't afford it, but that's a problem I'll solve). For this reason I will not just let them do as they want regarding their uniform just as I won't let them act in an unscout like manner. The challenge is the right amount of consistent, gentle pressure. Our gentle pressure consists of: We require green pants but not official scout pants. I will pull aside a scout that consistently does not wear a uniform and ask him why. I will comment to scouts if their patches are completely out of date - just to let him know I see it. We do require a scout to wear his uniform at a SMC for rank, or bor. When we take a picture of the troop we ask all scouts that are not wearing a full uniform to not stand in front. During an indoor flag ceremony we ask all scouts to remove their jackets as well as non-scout hats, and they can put them back on afterward. We strongly suggest scouts wear their scout shirts when we travel or do service projects so people know scouts is still around. We also tell everyone if they can't afford a uniform we'll find them one. In other words, the scouts know they should wear a uniform, they can get a uniform, and we understand when they slip. Most importantly, when a scout that has had problems with his uniform suddenly shows up with everything right, I'll complement him on how sharp he looks, just as I try to complement every scout that does a better job helping out.
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