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Neither the BSA nor the OA has a purpose or mission as a Native American Heritage Society. I love what the OA is at heart, and it has nothing to do with any real Native American lore. I say ditch it, and walk away. Structure it around the colonial period and a call to service for freedom. I can think my way through that set up easily.

Here in Western PA one camp maintains the the pow-wow grounds for a tribe, who in turn provide cultural opportunities for the boys in camp. Members of the Lenni Lenape regularly provide guidance on regalia. I'll let Pennsylvanians on the other side of the Appalachians provide examples of their interactions.

I do not mean this as an insult, but there is nothing in my own personal experience with Scouting (I joined in 1975) that leads me to believe that BSA is the right organization to handle a sensitive issue like this successfully. I mean that from National to local. I don't doubt that some professionals and volunteers could navigate this minefield successfully, but, again, my own personal experience leads me to disbelieve that such success would be across the board. I know National can't do it, and inconsistent results across councils or districts, or among different MBCs, will just cause BSA

I also find the merger of scouting honor society and Native American historical society to be a poor fit. I can see why it worked in the past but imo it just doesn’t any more. were I in charge with a magic wand, I’d rework the ceremonies and such around historic scouters (BP, seton, Goodman, green bar bill, etc). We’ve been around long enough to have our own history without having to borrow from someone else.

THIS IS WHAT I AM EXPECTING. (EMPHASIS) This is currently in place, and has been for a time, but is not working. Doubtful. As someone on FB stated, the decision has been made, and the survey is a figleaf

We use Scoutbook. The PLC decides our trips and events during the Annual Planning Conference. (We have two APC's per year, so we always have a minimum of six months of activities on the books...) An adult helps the Troop Webmaster and Troop Scribe enter the events in Scoutbook (due to Scoutbook edit permissions.) For "regular" events, our planning horizon is 90 days. Prior to the 90-day clock starting, the PLC has to designate a Youth Planner for the event. The Committee tags an Adult Planner. The Youth and Adult Planner use this checklist (a bit outdated, but still useful...) t

LOL, "Chief" is an English word. And there are/were tribal chiefs (chieftains) around the world in multiple countries/lands throughout history. It is not "appropriation" to use that word. The etymology is French...

I was a BSA scout in Belgium. We went to international camporees and we never thought about anything other than "they" had a wild mix of accents, uniforms, and clothing, even compared to what we saw in Belgium. I wouldn't make generalizations about people in the BSA. People are unique everywhere. I spent a summer in Japan and, once you cut through the facade, everyone still cares about their family and tries to do their best. Different cultures have different ways of doing things because that's what evolved. Not better, just different.

Watch your email inbox... Survey is starting to make the rounds. Dear Scouters, The BSA continuously evaluates the relevance of its program to ensure that it remains engaging for youth and families throughout the country. Native American traditions have been a part of the BSA program, particularly within the Order of the Arrow, for more than a century. As we move forward, BSA is conducting a broad assessment of what role those traditions should play in the future. We’d like you to take the attached survey to provide your perspective on this important issue. No rel

Hi, I'm a parent who has a cub who had a less-than-stellar experience our wolf year. We're back at it now with a new den and having a great time, so fortunate we found this new troop. I'm still doing a good chunk of stuff at home as we homeschool and I have anxiety that leaving it up to another adult will leave my kid pack less again.

National made a mistake IMO on forcing the issue to have every council have an OA Lodge. I was encouraged the question was asked if suspension of a Lodge is appropriate if they don't correctly follow policy. Resoundingly, I would say yes, every fraternal organization would take action if a local club/lodge/chapter was not following policy. Sadly, I don't see the BSA ever doing this. If they won't ever suspend a unit that they know is not following advancement policy correctly, doubtful they'd suddenly dig in when it comes to the OA and they'd just as soon end the OA. My free-form comments on t

If you have received the survey, you should note that there are soptions that suggest some of what you suggest. To me, it is very open and actually allowed me to give honest thoughts. To me, it is most important to respect both local and far flung tribes and to always work with them locally. We have had a number of visits from Chumash elders and they blessed our call out with a smoke ceremony in a few incidences. The most care needs to be taken, IMHO, in learning as much as possible and NOT appropriate things without the involvement of the local tribes. In regard to the Delaware, the ini

Not to stir the pot too much, but I was triggered they referenced Native Americans and not First Nation, or indigenous, or First Nation indigenous. Though First Nation may be a Canadian thing. Also, on the demographic questions at the end, only 2 sex choices, that is soooo 2015. The survey folks need to take CIS merit badge apparently.

That was the essence of my responses to the survey. Any potential positive to the inclusion of NA elements is spitting into a tidal wave of the negative.

It took me about 2 years to change the culture of the Troop. And I am retired and spend most of my time working at the unit level. It's been running OK for about 4 years after that, but it is still on shaky ground because people are lazy and apathetic... adult volunteers, Scouts, and parents. I give it about eight months after I depart to fail... unless a like-minded dedicated Scouter comes along to shepherd the process and hold feet to the fire. However, most of the principles in all this--- PLC and Patrol Method--- is the heart of Scouting, and in ALL the literature you read. Yo

I personally am ok with either path, even if I preference for one of them. A lot of the current approaches seems to very ad hoc instead of routinized. That might work for past times, but now one council or lodge being inappropriate can show up on YouTube and give the whole organization a black eye (micosay looking at you)

If that is what you believe, then you are perfectly fine to believe that. You may well believe there is an actual answer in there, but others may not. You may well have convincement in that, others very well may have an entirely different point. The problem is - where is the ironclad proof that one view is right and the other wrong? The question for me is not should we allow or not allow atheists/agnostics, it is why do we need to even have it part of Scouting, especially when Scouting takes every possible step to avoid trying to "take a side" in this element? The BSA clearly doesn't believe t

There are a lot of State Recognized tribes, and some do have relationships. I know at one time the Houma of Louisiana had members on Chilantakoba Lodge's executive board.

Very good point. Why Are Indigenous Leaders Called Chiefs? (ictinc.ca) Not all OA lodges have close ties with NA tribes ... in fact, from what I can see, most do not. Many areas have tribes that were kicked out and pushed into Oklahoma. Just look at the map of Indian reservations link. Most of the east coast has very small or nonexistent reservations. How would an OA lodge in Pennsylvania have a relationship with a tribe? Head West and there are many more options. Florida has some options as well. Based on the survey questions ... I highly doubt no changes are coming. My

We have a Scoutmaster that sometimes doesnt announce the campout location till the Thursday before the Friday the campout begins. As CC I am about tired of it. As a parent, I dont let my kid go.

We use Scoutbook. We have the due date as the meeting the week before the week of the event. We are flexible when we can be about deadlines.

Glucosamine / Chondroitin along with ibuprofen are the only medication needed to keep this 69 year-old going up and down ladders all day at work, and moving about the woods without pain. If I forget the drugs, I feel it about noon. Inspecting fire dampers/fire-smoke-dampers involves lots of climbing and stretching to wriggle into tight spots. The work keeps me young. Don't stop moving.

I have found that most scouting organizations see themselves as their own. Locally The GSUSA, Campfire Scouts and BSA are very different from each other. International is the same. That is why the “everybody else does it this way” doesn’t really fit well in discussions. Another subject where “everyone else does it this way” is uniforms. That of course doesn’t mean comparisons are off the table in discussions, it just means they should be discussed as “here is something to consider”. That keeps the discussion from going down the path passionate feelings going into attack position. Ba

To be honest I don't think most of us give it much thought. As residents of such a very large country, international cooperation doesn't have the same immediate relevance to our daily lives as it might in a place such as Europe. As a youth in the BSA I was told the world crest on our uniforms meant we were part of a worldwide movement of Scouts, but we never traveled internationally as a troop or met with Scouts from a different country to compare notes on our experiences. When we did a Philmont trek we had to drive a distance about the same as Stockholm to Paris, but it was all in the same co

Correct. Heck we cannot align with ourselves. Look at some of the discussions on Facebook, or even here. BP even had a problem with BSA when he was alive. Too many professionals was one of his problems.

??? From the Declaration of Independence: "...the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them.." "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--" "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions,..." "And for the support of this Decl

I won't lie, participating in BSA events as a non-Christian can be uncomfortable at times. I remember as a youth being taken with the rest of my unit to Sunday-morning "non-denominational" (but still Christian / Protestant) services at camporees and also at Philmont. Though that was more than 20 years ago now, I imagine there are still districts and councils that put on similar programming today. I didn't get the impression from my unit leaders at the time that attending such things was optional. You would do well as a leader to make sure the non-Christian youth in your unit feel empowered to

Ask. Also, you are not required to attend any of these events. If any particular camp requires you to attend some event in order to qualify for some award or recognition, you can simply go off on your own and have your own "spiritual experience" according to the tenets of your beliefs, and count that. If anyone denied that opportunity to you, I'd gladly come and side with you to oppose them. And although I'm not going down the metaphysical rabbit hole again 😜 I'll simply say your beliefs are your business. And if you believe that any value system contortions are acceptable in

I do not believe you have to worry about this... For example, we have Hindus, Muslims, one Buddhist, Jews, Protestants, and Catholics (Roman and Eastern Orthodox) in our Troop. We all get along together 😜 The Scout Oath does have a phrase each Scout promises, "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law,..." This is the first part of the Scout Oath. The 12th point of the Scout Law is, "A Scout is Reverent." At each rank milestone along his Scouting journey, your Scout will be asked to define what he believes to be his duty to G

Unfortunately, another major issue is how people have embraced theidea of suing one another. If I went on a Scout trip and fell down and broke my arm I went home, explained what happened, got fussed at for doing something stupid and went back with a cast on my arm. Unfortunatly today the supervising adults could face a law suit, not just to pay the repair bills, but to make the unfortunate youth who was subjected to needless danger and negligent supervision in an environment that should have been known was dangerous and was devoid of any warning labels or cautions that should have been clear

There's a good question there, one I'm trying to track down. What is the BSA procedure for adopting a WOSM program and is it different than allowing any Scout who has earned a WOSM badge to wear it on their uniform even if not a BSA adopted program? Like, who decided that we promote Messengers of Peace in the BSA but not Patrimonito? I don't know. Working on finding out. But, as far as i can tell, BSA scouts and scouters could wear any WOSM badge they earn in the temporary insignia area (or on a jacket, etc) unless otherwise indicated (like the MoP ring around the world crest), even if

Every person in the db has a number. To be registered, one needs to fill out an application, sign a background check auth, do youth protection, pay $45, and get the ok from your COR. Big difference, no change in number.

Well, if you follow that pattern...Motorboating.

It is not really that uncommon to find yourself suddenly one on one, at least for a moment. Youth come into your space with questions or simply to get something in the general area. You can be sittingon the porch at camp with coffee and on occasion they will appear and your realize there are no others there at the immediate moment. That was one of my most diddicult things with which to deal as a sub teacher. The kids would just appear on occasion and I would find myself migrating very quickly to the open area outside the door if the student was alone. Most of these instances are completel

This is an issue that the Lodge Advisors should have recognized and remedied. The "Buddy System" is not just for swimming.

@Benjamincook, welcome to the forums. Sorry it's on such challenging circumstance for your troop. Nothing personal with the SM, but somehow he violated parents' trust. We've now learned from history that for every 999 people who had one-on-one encounters with youth with no ill intent (and with many favorable results), there was someone who took advantage of that situation to prey on multiple scouts. Now, when adults in my troop "accidentally" find ourselves one-on-one with a scout, we promptly inform a scouter or parent of the encounter. Failing to do so sews mistrust in the troop. I

The app is only for scouts and parents. The real power is through the website as a “web app”.

You must call your Council Registrar to ask this info. The Registrar has access to all recorded adult awards. Depending on how you sell it ( ) your Registrar might not provide the info directly (like a list). That is, for example, you may only be able to ask, "Does our Unit Leader have the "Award of Merit'"? The Registrar may tell you Yes or No, and then you can move forward on that info. In fact, that is the course I would recommend... Pick an award you think your leader qualifies for https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/what-cub-scouts-earn/adult-awards-and-recogn

Maybe cover half the adult fee rather than the full thing? It is an acknowledgement that their help is appreciated, but the economic reality is also changing.

Exactly. Anyone complaining is just sad their corporate loophole doesn't exist anymore. Everyone is right, this is about money. But units weren't using the "free" membership as intended. Ok?

The TCC was clear that they did not approve of the 72 hour rule. BSA was never going to exit bankruptcy without this change. It was one of the changes that switched TCC from rejecting to supporting the bankruptcy plan. It was an odd rule. I'm not able to do nearly anything with the GSUSA without registering. I think BSA avoided it, like they avoided the YPT training checks for years, to avoid the complaints and moaning from scouters. As far as MBCs, they shouldn't be hanging out overnight with the Troop. ASMs and SMs ... Sure. I struggle to see why a MBC in that capacity sho

Not entirely true. It ensures every adult that is camping overnight in a Scouting program is background checked. I'm curious if that came out of documented incidents, if that's one of the changes the bankruptcy process made happen, or it's a creative way to get more in fees, as you said. The BSA is rarely transparent about such things, so if there is actual data supporting the rule change, we'll never see it.

I’d word it differently. This will make it so that people who were using the “free” MBC as a loophole will now have to pay.

It's not that they are not approved... It's that those positions are not part of the "adult fee required position(s)" That is, you must be registered in some other position before you can be a Chapter or Lodge Adviser, insofar as I understand this... As @HashTagScouts alludes, they must first be in a District (or unit or council) fee paid position, before they can wear the additional hat of Adviser.

What Matt said. True story: At the local University of Scouting one year, I ran across a Scout who wore four medals : I recognized his Eagle, the God and Country, the Ner Tamid, and the Ad Altare Dei... These were the Methodist Church, Jewish and Catholic awards, respectably. As we ate lunch, I said, "you know, I have to ask how you come to wear those three religious awards.?" He said that his mom was Jewish, his dad Catholic and his Troop was sponsored by a Methodist Church. He said that when he asked about earning the awards, his father's priest, his mom's rabbi and the mi

Welcome to the forum, @FirstClass . As each religious organization creates their own requirements my guess is the scout can either keep wearing the old award, or not. And if they want the new one then they'll have to earn it first.

The best way to get involved is to talk to the Committee Chair and ask what areas the troop may need assistance from wrt a Scouter. If the response is "we're covered", well that could be a possible red flag. If the response is "we need help in the xyz area", determine if that is something you want to get involved in. What you don't want to do is go in being demonstrative about a bunch of changes needed (even if they are) right from the get go. IMHO, as a Scouter, do you want to work with the Committee behind the scenes or do you want to work with the youth in concert with the

@qwazse, no! If I took a cheap shot (your cheap shot description of my comment), it was at the reporter who cherry-picked things from the study to drive an agenda (bias) of pushing the narrative of "human-caused climate change" up front, but then later in the report equivocates and relates what the researches actually said... "The researchers’ data showed links among temperature trends, precipitation trends and body sizes. Now, the question is: What, precisely, is happening and why? It’s not clear whether the species’ genetics are evolving to adapt to a new climate. “E

That study has some strange omissions, like the fact that the Amazon has also lost 20% of its acreage/habitat in the past 30 years or so, but the Bird Study badge, along with many badges and rank requirements, are desperately in need of updating and revamping. We truly do need more outdoors in scouting, and what is offered needs to be more relevant, up to date, and field oriented.

"No other explanation" does not equal cause. It is irresponsible and illogical to make such a leap to say measured changes in climatic conditions caused changes in bird species. They observed these changes and created a new hypothesis which posits the changes were caused by climate changes. Great...now design and conduct an experiment to test that hypothesis... Be wary of bias in interpretation which pushes a specific agenda.