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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/22/23 in all areas

  1. Based on conversations I've had with Scouts and their parents, I don't see a "situation" or have any reason to believe it isn't being counseled (not taught) properly.
    5 points
  2. That woke Boy Scouts of America with their "help other people at all times" and friendly and kind schtick. 😕
    4 points
  3. We use the same Scout Oath and Law that allowed BSA to permit racial segregation until 1974, meaning for over half of its existence, so I would be careful how you use the word "guarantee." It is also worth noting that inclusion involves more than just allowing membership.
    3 points
  4. Yes, that's my scout. Who is also a minority gender in scouting as well as a minority religion. People who tend to be from a group that gets marginalized to any degree tend to discuss those challenges. As a female Jewish person in organization comprised mostly of white Christian males she wonders (and so do I) why people afraid of having conversations about differences? What are they scared of?
    2 points
  5. Because it's wrong to use race and gender to claim more knowledge, rights and privileges than others. Go figure. It's fundamental to the political hypocrisy of these issues --> Using the differences of race and gender to justify why the other person is less informed.
    1 point
  6. Unsatisfactory. Several observations: 1. In reviewing the 2019 posts and your responses, you never answer the question at hand. You simply post a definition of "overnight" which in no way enlightens the questioning audience. (And you have repeated that here.) 2. You post a link to an instructor syllabus which is now defunct, therefore invalid to answer the question. 3. There are 72 instances of the word "overnight" in the currently available BALOO manual (2017 printing, see link). I reviewed each of them, and there is no clarification that a single night experience is
    1 point
  7. The Scout Oath and Law are fantastic, and have been fantastic guidelines for decades. They were good enough for decades, and they are good enough now. I was having a discussion with one scout and he said something like, "Aren't we already including everybody?" And I said, "Yes. The Boy Scouts is one of the most inclusive organizations you will ever find. The Scout Oath and Law pretty much guarantee it." I don't think anyone is afraid of having conversations about differences. What people have a problem with is when the differences start being used as metrics for enforced equality
    1 point
  8. It was only a matter of time before the pot was stirred again 😛 BTW, slide 34: 15. How will you make sure that the merit badge is achieving its objectives? Like all BSA programs, we will continuously evaluate and improve the Citizenship in Society merit badge based on feedback shared by those within the Scouting program. Anybody been asked for any feedback? Anyone see an avenue mentioned in the slide show to provide feedback? https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/diversity_equity_and_inclusion/Citizenship-in-Society-Merit-Badge-Counselor-Guide-2021.pdf P.S. They d
    1 point
  9. Not quite sure how to take your comment. What do you mean taught properly?
    1 point
  10. Won't get skipped over by people who think they know better? Any merit badge can be subverted easily. I often think the Family Life MB where many of the requirements are often subverted. This badge is controversial. Quality might be better now while we have strong focus, but over time it will be subverted because many simply believe the content is political. That's your scout. Few scouts would ever list any Citizenship MB as a favorite. This may be only best judged in hindsight. Twenty years from now ... after focus, intensity and politics reduce ... will this
    1 point
  11. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Religious Awards are NOT BSA awards. ANY young person can earn them. The Awards should be earned by the Scout within the environment of his/her family and faith leader, and should NOT be a part of the Scouting program, as I have seen some units do. Scouting is, and should remain, a non-denominational activity. BSA allows the medals and square knot to be worn on the uniform, and that should be the extent of the Unit/Council's involvement.
    1 point
  12. Again, clarity seems to evade most BSA statements. Does the adjective "singular" modify "overnight" or "experience"? If the intent is to spend only one night, then say that. Or, "Cub camping is limited to one night per outing." And in all my years of unit service, Council never kept tabs on when units were camping or for how long, except when a tour permit was required or a Council property reservation was needed. With no enforcement, people tend to do what they want, when they want, whether there is intent to disobey or not...yes, even in Scouting.
    1 point
  13. Rules that nobody is interested in enforcing, for decades on end, are effectively meaningless. So...does this "clarification" signal that people will now become interested in enforcing this rule, or is it actually true that nothing has changed here?
    1 point
  14. Looked at the FB comments just a few minutes ago. Saw a comment from the Circle 10 SE that he is communicating with National to find out about this....
    1 point
  15. My son's pack has been doing multiple two-night outings each year for decades. I find it hard to believe we could have kept that a secret from our district and council leadership for that long, and AFAIK nobody has told us to stop doing this before. It therefore seems far from universally understood that this rule has been in place this whole time.
    1 point
  16. And you are going to get differing opinions on whether it can actually fit into the other Citizenship merit badges. I don't think it effectively can, as I think it works better as a single focused topic. But again, that's an opinion. On the other hand, I think Nation and World should be combined. And I think that you could incorporate outdoor food safety requirements into the cooking part of Camping merit badge and drop Cooking back to an elective. But again, that's my opinion. I also don't think it's something that can be effective as part of the Scout Spirt requirement. The setting is dif
    1 point
  17. As someone involved in Scouting since before Cub Scout packs could conduct overnight camping trips, and as someone who taught BALOO, this "Single Overnight Experience Policy" is indeed new. I have never seen it written in any BSA literature I have or used to teach BALOO that limited Cub Scout packs to 1 night. This is going to hurt many packs now, and in the future, especially when all the camp closures come about due to the bankruptcy. On a different note, what happens in those councils that do not have a list of approved campsites? And when asked about the approval process are told "
    1 point
  18. Well... the "single" part didnt used to be there. Implying can only camp overnight 1 night. Not 2. Which is crummy. 2023 GTSS - New guideline included as above. 2022 GTSS - No mention of overnight camping restriction (that I can tell)
    1 point
  19. I am working through this with a small group of Scouts now (9th graders). When we are done, I am going to ask them what their opinion is on the badge, and whether this was value-added for them. I'll let you know... I will say, in our first session, they were very guarded in their views, but when they began to share their ideas and research on the definitions, and each relayed what they had heard from friends, parents, teachers, and media, and how they thought much of this was unneeded in a merit badge. They came to some great consensus on what things "should mean" (their words, and I
    1 point
  20. If not just added as an item into Star/Life/Eagle rank requirements. At the end of the day, what the badge is intending to have the scouts spend time reflecting on are elements that are reflective of the SO and SL. So, if we just added this as specific discussion points to take place as part of the "demonstrate scout spirit" conversations, would we have not been able to achieve the desired result without the need of another badge?
    1 point
  21. Sensitivity is important. Not offensive is important. Being kind and considerate is important. My issue is the yet-another badge that should have been covered in at least one of the Citz of community, Citz of nation, Citz of world or Family Life (Citizen of the family).
    1 point
  22. When our Council tried to shaft our Pack with bogus "late fees" on a family camp that amounted to an effective doubling of the registration fees, I talked to a number of parents who had pledged money to Friends of Scouting that year and said we should all write a letter to the Council and tell them that since they saw fit to try to screw our pack over, then we would just donate our pledged amounts to the Pack that year. Our Council has really dropped the ball the last couple of years. My family and I had given sizable donations to Friends of Scouting in the past, but after those shenanigans an
    1 point
  23. Scouters across the nation were clearly doing an end-around and dropping their registrations as direct contact leaders to avoid exorbitant fees. But just because they are now MBCs, many of them are competent leaders who are very helpful to have around. They are just making the registration fees more expensive for the rest of us. Sooner or later BSA would shore up that loophole. That’s why my troop pays for leaders’ registration fees. (It amounts to maybe an extra hour of the scouts washing cars.) I think it’s kinda dumb and make up for it by providing a little extra here and there, but it
    1 point
  24. This is awesome that you did it on a campout; not a Court of Honor.
    1 point
  25. ...because the kinds of parents that insist on observing are just this reasonable and level headed Unfortunately I don't view this situation as ad absurdum. It's an eventuality. I guess I'll cross that bridge as it comes, but Scouts BSA certainly do seem to spend plenty of time devising new and interesting ways to complicate our unit structures and YPT compliance. This fee-required addition is one I can't get behind at all. Accomplishes nothing net-new in terms of YPT, the only net difference I see is money in Scouts BSA's pocket. Only hurts the units and the Scouts in my book.
    1 point
  26. The problem of course is that every once in a while that father figure takes advantage of the situation and exploits the young person seeking guidance. Given past events and current litigation, I totally understand why the BSA would want to have strong rules prohibiting such one-on-one conversations from happening under their aegis, even though they're a positive thing over 99% of the time.
    1 point
  27. No. But they can clearly articulate coherent policies. Not come up with more incoherent ones... For example, there should be nothing wrong with having MBCs be the second adult. They have to be registered, have YPT, and background checks. Simply put in the additional instruction: "MBCs may fulfill only one position of supervision at a unit event, with the permission of the CO." Unless, councils aren't really doing the background checks? ($$$)
    1 point
  28. We used this scheme before it became "illegal." Also, in our state (PA), state law requires all adult volunteers to have three background checks: 1) A State Police Criminal Record check, 2) A "PA Child Abuse History Certification" from the Dept of Human Services, and 3) EITHER a signed Affidavit attesting no other charges OR an FBI Fingerprint background check if you have not been a state resident of 10 years. When I posed the question about having adults just register as MBCs (because MBCs also have to these checks), versus as paid adult registrations, I got a rather nasty respons
    1 point
  29. @FirstClass, welcome to the forums! As you can tell, scouters have no stomach for playing identity politics with religious awards. Having made the effort, a scout should proudly wear the awards for each faith he held at the time.
    1 point
  30. Welcome to the forum, @FirstClass . As each religious organization creates their own requirements my guess is the scout can either keep wearing the old award, or not. And if they want the new one then they'll have to earn it first.
    1 point
  31. We did CIS as a troop and I believe it was really good for the scouts and adults. One of the things I brought up was that people come from different economic backgrounds and that we help with scholarships for those families that need it. One scout stated that no one in our troop needed that. He is wrong. I also shared with them the story of my 91 year old father who came to the US (Arkansas) from China. When he was a child, he was not allowed to attend school in his town because of the Jim Crow Laws, i.e. my father was labeled "colored" and therefore wasn't allowed to attend scho
    1 point
  32. I think many of us would agree the aims of scouting including citizenship development. The question is the how (methods). In order to achieve the top rank in UK Scouts, you have to complete 9 challenge awards. Of those, 1 is similar to BSA's Citizenship list. Below are the requirements of the "World Challenge Award". You can see all of our 4 Citizenships in this one award. I also notice that it would be tough to earn this sitting in a classroom (in fact, there is almost no classroom aspect to this award). This is about taking action (6 of the 7 requirements are about taking action,
    1 point
  33. At its core, scouting (boy or girl, young or old, sport or military) is: observe and report. Part of the discourse over the determination of what’s required vs. what’s elective is a concern that we are replacing that core with memorize and recite. Doing so moves us off brand.
    1 point
  34. At the rate things are trending, we'll have: Citizenship in the Solar System Citizenship in the Galaxy Citizenship in the Universe Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned. I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic. Less and less experience. Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain. I am a master at it. OK, not a master, GENIUS. I am really good at building fires. Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky. (And my 2 de
    1 point
  35. Citizenship in Society is my daughter's favorite merit badge that she has earned. It's a subject matter she is passionate about. The merit badge counselor invited me to sit in on their session (I asked my daughter if it would be okay with her). When the counselor puts a session together for scouts, she ensures there is sufficient diversity within the group to have meaningful discussion, so that everyone is able to get out of it more than they put in. I was pleasantly surprised by the thoughtful discussion, but at the same time you could see a thoughtfulness difference and a participation diffe
    1 point
  36. Dont let some of the people on here see this message, they are gonna call you a woke marxist if you keep bring up correct facts like this. We should be talking about our mistakes of the past rather then run from them and call it a wokeness taking over scouting.
    0 points
  37. Good catch. A two night weekend camp out is a 'single overnight experience.
    0 points
  38. Not new. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overnight
    0 points
  39. If you know, you know. If you don't, you won't.
    -2 points
  40. Based on the conversations I've had with Scouts, and listening in to others while they were taking the merit badge, there is a situation, and the kids know it. In fact, given the often-cagey responses from the adults concerning the badge, they know it, too. Most worrisome is that people are clearly afraid to talk about it openly. Because it is. Not only that, it is, in my estimation, immoral. The merit bade speaks to "equity" and "equality". In the context of organizations with DEI efforts, these always, always end up being punitive in nature. The left has done a fantastic jo
    -2 points
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