Leaderboard

I think this is the wrong way to look at the problem and is the source of a lot of angst here. Rather than ask for a specific failure rate that is acceptable, after which everyone can say there is no longer a problem, it would be better to use methods that continually drive down failure rates. Look at air travel. Back in the 70's there were enough crashes that all the parties involved (manufacturers, airlines, regulators) got together and decided that air travel was both important and dangerous. They started measuring death rates in deaths per billion passenger miles traveled. I think it start

I would like to think "good enough" is when parents have accepted that the organization has proven itself as a reliable and safe environment for children. It doesn't matter how many policies or background checks BSA has, but whether the public believes that they are doing everything they can to minimize the risk to children. When they feel the same comfort of having the kids in scouts as they do in the classroom, then I would say we are on the right track.

It's a reminder that there are many children, like his friend, who did not survive to make a claim and he also came close to ending his life. I think of that whenever anyone attempts to use the 82,000 cases as an absolute number.

Hope you don't mind the suggestions. It is we who do these things. It is we who bring the idea to life. Scouting is an idea and a movement, but it doesn't do anything of itself. BSA is a organization with a culture... The people in that culture knew there were wolves in the fold. They made decisions about dealing with the wolves that seemed (repeat, seemed) to sway more towards protecting the image and existence of the organization rather than the lambs in the flock. And, the continued decisions, actions, and conduct of those people, throughout this process, still seem (repeat, s

There are two sides of the fence? I have seen so many lives changed, or even saved by scouting. There is the scout who used the skills learned from the program to save a victim in a car wreck until help came. The the scout who took a drowned baby and resuscitated him back to life. There are the words of a mother who suffered as she watched kids and school teachers bully her extremely awkward son praising the scout program that welcomed her son as he is was and he flourished into a confident adult who became an officer in a submarine. Then there is the rescue of a scout who grew up in an a

Per the press release, we’re part of an “illustrious list of people who have given noteworthy and extraordinary service to youth.” Gross.

So just so I understand your view, the BSA HAD decades of knowledge that abuse WAS occuring, but because they didn't know Abuser X was going to cause abuse then the BSA has no fault in all of this? So much for logic.

Norman Y. Mineta, a son of Japanese immigrants who was held in an internment camp during World War II and later became one of the country’s highest-profile Asian American political leaders, as San Jose mayor, a 10-term congressman, and as Transportation Secretary who ordered commercial flights grounded after the 9/11 terror attacks , died May 3 at his home in Edgewater, Md. He was 90. Sources: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096440480/norman-mineta-first-asian-american-cabinet-secretary-dies-at-age-90 https://www.truckinginfo.com/10169918/norm-mineta-a-uniquely-american-story

Interesting analogy. As a private pilot, I have seen first hand the commitment to improving aviation safety. The flying public today is safer now than it has ever been due to this emphasis on safety and prevention. An important part of this is the National Transportation Safety Board which is an independent, governmental body charged with investigating incidents and making recommendations to prevent future incidents. They are very skilled and have broad investigative powers. While they work with airlines, pilot associations and manufacturers, they are independent and their findings carry grea

Powerful stuff. I do miss Hitch. It is true. You can substitute BSA for Catholic Church and the issues with denial and lack of institutional honesty sound the very same. Violence condoned in pursuit of a higher goal is not pardonable.

Nothing to stop a Pack from making their own custom necker to last the whole program, just like most troops.

Young cubs don't need the handbook, they are lead through advancement. Leaders could benefit, but the pack could have a rotating library. I think Webelos/AOL should have a book if the troop(s) they are likely to move to use them so they get in the habit of always bringing it with them and taking it to leaders for signoff. For Scouts BSA, as prevalent as electronic stuff is getting, at least in our troop we're not there yet. The paper handbook is still the source of record for a boy's advancement. I do feel a Scouts BSA scout should have a handbook, but I think it should be a one-t

We agree on virtually every point raised, so understand these are some of my areas of musing. In places, I'll try to say what BSA National and the highly effective local expressions of big 's' Scouting might be thinking. I know. Dangerous. We have to have a baseline, which we don't really have. That is on BSA National. Until the real data - sans what has not been reported and MUST be assumed to what degree I also don't know - there is no metric. For me, this is one of the critical issues to remedy ASAP to the best of the ability of those who research, unpack, analyze and report the existi

Both of these are the crux of the issue. Will it work or won't it? The amount of time (20 years or so) is the program worth it to take the risk? As a survivor this is what I wrestle with in forming my pro or anti views. This is why I am on the fence. I first hand know the devastating effects of CSA. I now have contact with many other survivors when just a few years ago I thought I was the only one. I correspond with others who's lives have been more upended than my own and believe there are countless others who no longer dwell on this earth because the pain was more than they could bear t

You can start at 8:20 and get the relevant crux.

20 Centuries of Catholic Church on review, but with obvious analogies to the century of BSA... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRsaxXrjk3w&ab_channel=playinhard please take 20 minutes to view

My son just got his drivers license as a freshman in high school, so he is less safe today driving himself to school and to baseball practice. However, in the long run driving is an important skill to have and the more he drives, the better driver he will become. As parents, we could bubble wrap our son, but in the long run, it will be bad for our son. The program does put scouts in challenging positions, by design, so they grow in character. So by design the program is not as safe as sitting on the couch watching TV or playing video games. Did this Director of Youth Protection do n

I have experience as a scout leader working with abused scouts. How much experience as a Scout leader do you have working with abused scouts? I simply don't agree with the director and as someone who works in a data evaluation area, data doesn't tell a whole story. I have worked with many scouters across the country and I believe I have a good feel for the program. Scouts are very safe. Can improvements be made? Maybe, but I can't see anything making big changes. Scouting is a program that makes big positive differences to families with scouts. We need that. Anti scouting makes no

This is why I said you are burying your head in the sand. The former Director of Youth Protection says scouts are not safe. I am sure that he had access to more data then you have had (unless you are in a position above or equivalent to him in BSA national). So why don't you want to believe him? Maybe in your small slice of BSA life you have not come across any issues and that in itself is good however I think your experience is a very small piece of a large pie. Asking me for how much adult experience I have had in BSA is like me asking you for how much experience you have had in b

😂, Yes, there are other aspects of public schools that bring pause. But, my words that anti scouting doesn't make sense is absolute. I feel it has to be absolute to balance what I feel are absolute anti scouting comments. For all its shortcomings, the BSA still offers our culture an alternative of hope and peace to counter negative cultural influences. I think it was Baden Powell who said he had a dream of scouting bringing world peace. That is quite a vision. But, those are the kinds of visions that create noble movements. Barry

Have you ever gotten severe food poisoning, stung by a bunch of bees, had your father pull out your "loose" teeth with a pliers or hooked on opioids? I have. That specific food, though good and healthy? No thanks. Things with stingers, though they do a lot of good? Not so much. Dental visits (and I'll avoid father issues and pliers, which I've dealt with through therapy)? Dislike enormously. Taking any narcotics, even post-op? Nah. Making sense is about understanding. Being anti-BSA "doesn't make sense to me," means you don't (or can't or won't allow yourself to) understand the complete aversi

I disagree there is two sides of the fence for an organization that offers so much good for the community. Are public schools bad? There is a story on the news every week of students becoming victims in a public school. Yet, closing all public schools would make no sense. As you said, you can find faults in any organization. Barry

There are 2 sides of the fence in anything. Is Scouting inherently evil? No. Did it make a major blunder and paying for it. Yes. If people didn't believe in its overall values, there would be no memberships, no volunteers, and those of us who are still here wouldn't be fighting like h*ll to stay afloat and grow our units and continue to teach, guide, and mentor. You can find faults in any organization. Like the ol' saying goes, "it's not how you start that's important, but how you finish". Call me naïve, but we will make it.

Update May 6, 2022: Former Dutchess County Legislator Michael Kelsey (R-Pleasant Valley), convicted in 2016 for sexually abusing boy scouts in 2014, has been released from prison. The former lawmaker was released on Thursday, May 5, 2022. Kelsey, 38 at the time was found guilty on May 12, 2016, on all counts of a felony indictment charging him with sexual abuse and attempted sexual assault. He also was indicted on misdemeanor counts of forcible touching and two counts of endangering the welfare of a child. A jury determined that Kelsey had sexual contact with one teen an

Heard this report on NPR this morning: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/06/1097065417/a-ruling-is-expected-soon-in-a-bankruptcy-case-involving-the-boy-scouts-of-ameri Pretty difficult to listen to what happened to a survivor and his friend.

There are good arguments being made here, lets refrain from personal attacks. Thanks, RS

Reactions to a post says a lot about people. I do not understand the sad face. Is it because it is a sad situation or is it because I am looked at upon as a sad person?

You see it is statements such as the above where I have my doubt if BSA should continue on. Leaders such as @skepticwho want to deflect responsibility away from BSA makes the BSA a dangerous place for youth. I was in the care of the BSA at the time of the assault upon my body, the perpetrators were active adult leaders of the BSA end of story. What transpired afterwards only added to the damage. It is and was the BSA's responsibility to keep perpetrators out of the BSA. After they were caught (if they were caught and most were not) it was the BSA's responsibility to keep them out of an

You see the error in your statement. Lives were ruined by the perpetrator. Others that chose to cover up, or keep private, or simply ignore for whatever reasons are not the ones that did the damage, they are secondary. The focus should not be first on BSA, or local authorities that chose to say they had no proof, or not enough, or on famillies that felt the need to keep it quiet for some reason. IF the actual abuser had not done it, the others would not even be in the picture.

Here’s an extremely over the top hypothetical question: how can anyone be against the Weinstein Organization? They enabled great art to be made and donated a lot of their profits to so many worthy causes! There are always powerful men in society that rape women… it’s just a statistic. One-in-a-million, what’re you going to do? Here’s another: who can be anti-the Cosby Show? They made us laugh, focused on family structures and the lead actor donated a lot of money to charity. About that lead actor, probably the same as it always was in Hollywood… we just know about it because of the media.

From someone who is on the fence as to pro/anti BSA it also would make sense if you said the opposite. The BSA has ruined so many lives how could any one be in support of it?

Zero is the answer from my unit, and I've never heard of a unit giving any. I've been doing this for a long time, and have had several council board members who are also adult leaders in our unit. We do allow/invite a council rep to do an FOS ask at our spring COH, and our troop families give. We support popcorn sales, but we don't push hard for it as it's not a primary fundraiser for us. Broadly we're very supportive of our council and have good relations with them, so I'm not saying this as someone with an antagonistic relationship with council. A couple additional thoughts and ques

Rather than give any money to the council I'd suggest going to one of the camps, ask them what they need that's worth about $250 and go buy it for them. They will be thankful. Do not give them the money and do not give it to the council saying it's for the camp as the camp will never see it. This is my experience. In the meantime, tell the guy that told you the 40% fable that the deal is off the table because they lied to you. Nobody pays 40%, not even for popcorn - that has a built in 33% that goes to the council. <end of rant>

Sure is and if "we" resist by not buying the new accessories (handbook, neckerchief, etc.) each year, they'll find another way to collect revenue (annual fee increases).

It is bad...no need for any of that. It's just a scheme to generate revenue.

I'm telling my parents to not buy the Cub Scout handbooks. At $25 a year, it's another expense that really isn't needed. Scoutbook has all the requirements and a little Google time will clarify any questions. My kids haven't opened theirs on their own at all. The Boy Scout handbook is probably more useful as it isn't a one year and done thing.

Ahhh...I see what you are saying...I misunderstood what you were aiming at... Agreed...I even got skewered by National (and specifically Michael Hohnson) for pointing out inconsistencies and holes in the wording and implementation of policies. As I said in another post somewhere, I have never seen another org "shoot the messenger" as much as BSA.