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Interesting status in the Purdue Pharma case. I've been following the journalist from WSJ who covers both this case and the BSA. There are parallels as there are channeling injunctions. In addition, both cases, the US Trustee has been fighting the plans. Now, in the Purdue Pharma case, the US Trustee (DOJ) is attempting to stop the decision. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/us/politics/sackler-bankruptcy-plan.html Kosnoff tweeted about this as well ... but the US Trustee has been ignored in the BSA case for a long time. He has been consistent that he sees the Plan 4, 3

Standing is a matter for a court to decide. It requires a hearing to demonstrate standing. Regardless, anyone can sue anyone at any time for any thing. Will they win? Who knows. Will it be tossed out on summary judgement? Maybe. Do they have a right to be heard? Yes. Will some of us be twice “barred” without a chance to be heard, preemptively, if votes are not universally allowed? Yes. If I have a fraudulent concealment case that is not heard because I am preemptively kicked to the curb since the three states in which I was abused are “closed,” is that a denial of my rights? Yes. Immoral? Yes.

From a non-litigator with only two such cases under his stretched belt, the issue is being raised incorrectly. The SoL is a defense to a lawsuit, not a bar from filing. Again, any one any time for any thing. This is what Muttsy was referring to more than once back when. As he explained better than I and maybe he’ll do it again, the immense cost and hassle for insurers and/or other BSA, LC and CO defendants, to potentially “defend” innumerable state lawsuits in which they may very well have a viable defense of time-bar, is no small matter. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. I promise to ta

If a UMC is switching to a Facilities Use Agreement only relationship, then the unit will need a new Chartering Organization, such as a VFW or your Local Council.

Ours has already informed us that we will move to the facilities model. Other than that, they assure us that they still consider us part of their ministry, just under a different format. Since we have out centennial in December, and just got a girl troop started, that is a positive note. We had an event last Sunday in which we helped and had a small presence, and all the elder congregation were thrilled to see us, as they usually are. It will really not make a huge difference.

Some of you may have heard the sound of a thunk this morning. It was probably the noise made by moderators as a couple of us worked diligently to ... moderate. All of the moderators attempt to watch the postings as often as we can to keep this forum functioning with appropriate and useful content. I am surprised how often I see a moderator checking the forum at 2am. Maybe it says something about our insomnia. Unfortunately, we are needing to delete or hide some of the posts. Bottom line they are just not Scout-like. We know that there is a lot of passion around some of the topics. An

The same way that California can impose higher emissions standards than other states. The Supreme Court has said that the commerce clause does not mean states cannot impose requirements on businesses doing business in that state PROVIDED it treats its own "domestic" businesses the same. For example, if California's emissions rules said "All cars manufactured outside of California are not required to meet the emissions standards; all other cars must" that would violate the commerce clause. It's sometimes called the dormant commerce clause: states are free to enact their own tort laws SO LO

It’s easy to be glib and rest on “it’s just the law” when it’s not your life; not your pain; not your tens of tens of tens thousand of dollars lost and expended in often futile efforts to staunch the “bleeding;” not your marriage, career, child’s life destroyed or mangled by a dark force inside you; and not your gut and heart and soul and experience that was poured out on the unqualified invitation by BSA to, “Come forth all ye lowly and beleaguered and aggrieved so we can equitably compensate you, ye who were abused in Scouting!” Way too easy. Way, way, way. We get the point. It’s been fired

I think it started with a historical reference but the attempted defense of the Klan crossed a line. For example, we could talk about the fact that Hezbollah operates the Imam al-Mahdi Scouts which is a member of WOSM. I think that would be acceptable and an interesting discussion. Perhaps some may try and say that see … this is really interesting that they do things other than being terrorists. That is also fine with me but a careful discussion. There are a lot of organizations Nazis, al Qaeda, ISIS that I’m sure have done nice things…. but I mean come on. Where I think t

The purpose if this thread is lost on me. I understand, and mostly agree, that judging history with a modern moral code can skew history itself. But throughout its history, the klan was out of step with the moral code of its time. I was born in the 60's and grew up in the 70's and 80's in Birmingham Al, a hot spot for civil rights strife. I have know klansmen in my life, virtually all hid the fact they were in the klan, which tells me even they knew how heinous their ideas were. I have literally had physical confrontation with them as they attacked my friends. Once I found out som

Try selling that slop to the family of Emmett Till. That there is even a thread named, "Just Ku Kluxin' Around" is extremely offensive and totally unacceptable. Period. That slaughter is practiced elsewhere, does not make slaughter here acceptable.

Let's stay on the legal topic, some excellent information and commentary here. The rest can go in a new topic or Thanks, RS @MattR @elitts @Eagle1993 @gpurlee @T2Eagle

Feedback when something is deleted would be welcome. It seems a post or two of mine have mine have been deleted and I am not sure why.

I have a hard time seeing the judge make any changes to voting or pushing out claimants who don't meet the SOL window. She is all about speed to resolution now and these could cause major delays. I expect she will include SOL claims in the vote and let the trustee adjust payments. I expect she will say there is likely some fraud, but not enough to stop this process. I think the SOL/claimant debate will fall on death ears. If she was concerned she could have prioritized the hearing for that a while ago (I believe these issues have been brought up many time). Clearly I could be wrong, I ju

Let's not drag the innocent Harris Hawk into this sordid tale. They are lovely creatures, which is why they are so suitable for falconry. They are less likely to talon your face.

Of course it is. That’s the major game we play on this entire VI Episode thread, save for the factual reporting and some of the analysis. And, my main point was skipped in your refutation. SoL is a defense, not a preemption to file. Correct? We’re glossing over terms and I think your response, though accurate and well-taken, shines the gloss a tad. I was answering a specific post. I’m not sure, but my brain was telling me he meant vested as opposed to invested. Happy to be wrong, again. I’m keeping a poop sheet and I need more hash marks to finish a row.

But much of this is speculative. Out of the 51,000 or so time barred claims, how many would be filed/convert to state lawsuits? We have one data point: NY, where 5,100 claims turned into 1300 or so lawsuits, around 25%. Threatening insurance companies with "I'll see you in court" is somewhat of an idle threat. Insurance companies LIVE in court. But let's plot this out. 51,000 claims and 1% (510) turn into lawsuits? Do you know how much civil litigation there is nationwide each year in state courts? 15 million annually. Tort cases? At least 490,000 cases (likely more) https://www

Stenulson's declaration. This is going to be devastating. Details about the claims were made up: "Sometimes we were told to change the details of a caller's story in order to make their claims see more viable, but I was not comfortable with that directive." Blank claims had the signatures of claimants forged. Specifically, the signature that the claimant used ON THEIR CONTRACT WITH AIS OR OTHER LAWFIRMS were then cut-and-pasted onto the Proof of Claim. Claimants who had changed their minds were told their claims would be removed. They weren't. Duplicate claims were fil

My rebuttal is that this is a bankruptcy issue and one of the responsibilities of the court is to make BSA a viable entity (as a corporation) post bankruptcy. It could not be viable in financial sense if they are left with with potential lawsuits from prebankruptcy in the post bankruptcy period. There was a deadline to file a claim and if you did according to the judge (all claims prima facie) then they have legal standing. If you have legal standing you have the right to vote.

As always, thank you. The detailed reasoning is very useful and I am grateful. My interpretation of your writing is that potentially not a single claim is time-barred in this bankruptcy. Potentially. BSA owns the program and BSA has been incorporated in SOL open states. So even if the incident is in a closed state and the unit / CO and LC were all in closed states ... and even if the DE / SE and BSA oversight individuals' offices were in closed states, the BSA organization itself was incorporated in open states. ... effectively jurisdiction shopping ... @CynicalScouter ... Go

Which is why Zalkin and Pfau have argued one way to address this is apply the scaling system (Gray 1/2/3 or some other system) on the FRONT end. For example: 1) A victim from an open statute of limitations state gets $1 or 1 vote. 2) A victim from a closed state (like Alabama) gets 10 cents or 1/10 of a vote. This addresses the imbalance of a) victims with live claims in the here and now against b) speculative claims that may or may not ever be eligible to enter in a state court some day in the future. It also means trying to parse out 82,500 claims and "weighing" them and

I may be wrong but I think that one of the outcomes of a bankruptcy is to prevent lawsuits arising from prior bad acts or liabilities before the filing of the bankruptcy. If that is the case then if those who abused and live in states which are closed become open states post bankruptcy would then have the right to litigate if not included. Hence their vote and need to be included in the settlement is necessary. As for those over the age of 3 in Uruguay and getting 10% of a pay raise is totally uncalled for. Those who live in currently closed states are as invested in this case as any

This is where civil procedure folks go insane, but, GENERALLY (and note the word here, GENERALLY) the laws of the state in which the alleged tort took place are applicable as to any/all defendants If a North Carolina scout was taken to a summer camp in Georgia and sexually abused there, Georgia law applies. Therefore, if the NC scout wanted to sue, they would have to go to a GA court and sue the LC and BSA under Georgia law. Now, let me give two big, massive, exceptions. 1) Long-arm statute: allows for a court to obtain personal jurisdiction over an out-of-state defendant on the

I believe he has said it multiple times in different contexts, though never before impugning and excluding Uruguayans three and under.

This is our setup in a nutshell - no to all three. Luckily, we now have a guy in charge of the youth ministry who recognizes that we are part of his program and wants to represent us to the parish council. The very minimum goal is covering adult registration fees. The funny thing is that we have to have the Safe Environment Training, which is YPT on steroids, yet we're treated more like facility users with a blurb on the webpage. We're working on becoming more visible, but it's difficult with only 1 family that is a member of the church.

I don't know if that was the OP's intent, but it was certainly the intent of the KKK members who first used that title in their publications. I can tell you, from first hand experience, that this is exactly how the KKK presents themselves to prospective recruits.

There is NO WAY anyone will persuade me that the title "Just Ku Kluxin Around" is anything but shining a jovial, light-hearted touch on racism. I have represented clients who spoke of their family documents pertaining to their family's ancestor's enslavement. Or tracing their family tree back to when their ancestors who were slaves and no records exist, to their knowledge. A sobering moment in the course of an office conference. Well, for a naive white boy like me, though slavery was a part of their family history. Get an education and a copy of "Treblenka" by Steiner. Learn

Yes, they are another possible CO. IMHO, it is best to be chartered with the same CO as a Troop which helps with recruitment. Another option that I might try it to get the yacht club to charter us.

Okay everyone, I asked nicely before. If this thread continues to be bankruptcy part 5b - the OA, then maybe it's time to lock it as it's nothing that hasn't been hashed out elsewhere. If you want to talk about CSA in the OA, then go ahead. If it's not specific to the OA and why you won't participate in the OA, then please take the conversation to one of the hundreds of pages that have already covered it.

Local Media Statement – Trust Contributions September 16, 2021 Attributable to the Laurel Highlands Council The national organization of the BSA continues to work toward the dual imperatives of its financial restructuring: equitably compensate survivors and ensure the future of Scouting’s vital mission. As part of the Boy Scouts of America’s financial restructuring, the specific contributions each local council will make to help fund the Trust for survivors was filed with the Court. These figures were determined through a combination of information filed in

It seems to me from the outside looking in that it is largely "unworkable" and many of the problems BSA is up against is because they are trying to use the Bankruptcy Court in ways and for purposes it was never designed for. Color me unsympathetic to BSA's impatience to the daunting tasks of due diligence and taking care of the victims.

I don't think I would recommend that any CO adopt an existing unit. Who knows what baggage comes with it? If it is discovered that a scout in that unit was molested 40 years ago, it is possible that the new CO will have its name and reputation dragged through the mud as well.

Let’s all stop thinking the worst of one another and roll back the last three posts. @SiouxRanger’s wishing contagion on the innocents among an adversary’s family is unacceptable ad hominem (even if no such man exists), and as we see, opened the gate to taking umbrage in kind. Think well of one another. Read twice before replying. Ask clarification rather than denounce. Make only one point, send, sleep on he other.

I would like to know, too. This a good point and has to factored into the equation, to be fair. I’ve appreciated the ‘correction’ about the IVF not being singularly based on sexual abuse or impropriety. Though it may seem otherwise, I don’t want to be blathering without foundation or credibility. These data points helped me balance my perspective, though in no way takes the wind out of my sails.

I don't come to this forum as often as I used to, so I came to this post late. I have read much about what the OA is and is not here, some of it right and some wrong. First, the OA is not separate from the BSA, it is part of the BSA. And its mission is to support the BSA in achieving its mission. No, the OA, or even BSA, cannot force a unit to hold elections. But I think it is a poor reflection on those units that do not hold elections when they have eligible scouts. In some cases I find that it's a unit leader that does not understand what the OA is or what it can do fo

I am a CC and I think this might come in handy for me. 😃

It will be a lot like this past year - in flux, fewer volunteers, trying to figure out how to recruit.

My experience this this. There already is an official policy BUT it allows for Council discretion and is used as a stopgap to tide units until they can get a normal CO. The shift may be to take council discretion away and require they accept the role as a long term proposition.

Council Impacts BSA will leave Ch 11 in major debt. Councils will leave with smaller endowments, debt and less camp properties. We have already seen a change of regions/areas within the National org. I expect 2022 will kick off a start of council consolidation discussions. I would not be surprised that the number of councils we have will be cut in half in 2-3 years. I think this is highly likely (perhaps not 50%, but major consolidation). Program impacts Given the collapse of Venturing, what comes next from 18 - 25 year olds. Given concerns about youth on youth ... will

Simple? Let us remember that it's a big country. So there will be no single outcome. Getting beyond stats ... National Program (which, let's not whitewash it, is driven by some of the elite businessmen and women of America who saw scouting as a key to their success) will have roughly the same facilities and materials. However, delivery of facilities and materials will be passed on to volunteers -- or they will pay more for services. Registration costs and fees will increase. Local program will have lost facilities, and some scouts will have to travel longer distances to summer camp,

@SiouxRanger There is no one on this forum with the forum name “Just Ku Kluxin’ Around.” Most here would call that the title of the thread for this topic. To enlighten your historical knowledge a bit, “Just Ku Kluxin’ Around” was the title of a recurring column in the Klan’s Houston newspaper (1910s-1920s) “Colonel Mayfield’s Weekly.” The column reported on that week’s light-hearted, jovial Klan activities. An historical reference in the historical sub-forum seems entirely appropriate, but feel free to take umbrage if that helps to advance your own interests. Your descri