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Showing content with the highest reputation on 06/10/21 in all areas

  1. Under the plan, the Victims Compensation Trustee appointed by the court would review all claims and determine value based on a abuse matrix established/approved as part of the plan. The insurance companies would/could demand that each claimant provide proof, but it would be the Trustee who decided things. EDIT: decided things such as whether there was sufficient proof to allow the claim, how much the claim is valued at, and how much will actually be paid out. FOR EXAMPLE (again, being very gentle here and using examples of physical harm rather than sexual because there are young peop
    3 points
  2. I learned while serving in the military you can only sue the government if the give you permission. There will be no permission granted.
    2 points
  3. I think there is another way that has been used in other class action suits, often regarding health issues. They have the data in the claims, some of which has already been entered. Once the data is input, it's not difficult to mine for corroborating clusters of cases in certain physical locations, in certain time frames, among certain councils, units, or camps, and cross check any incomplete claims against claims with identified and known abusers. For example, you might have a cohort of scouts in X region during Y timeframe who attended Z camp. If they can be matched up to a subset who were
    2 points
  4. Yeah, that's called (at best) convenience sampling. It has precisely 0 statistical worth or value when trying to make generalizations as to a group (BSA child sexual abuse victims). At worst it is called anecdata. Both are scorned if used to try and extrapolate anything about anything. "plural of the word anecdote is not data" as my old research methods professor beat into my head. And there are ways to sample sexual abuse victims with scientific rigor. Relying on a) people you talked to or b) sexual abuse victims who filed claims are poor substitutes.
    2 points
  5. Forgive me and respectfully, but you have noted this small sample at least three times that I recall. I'm not you, but I wouldn't be willing to draw conclusions based upon that admittedly small sampling. I'm curious how many are in that anecdotal study group, their ages now and at the time of abuse, gender and why you think it can inform a context of abuse not by someone related to the victim. Also, I did not use the word "strong" when suggesting there should be corroborating points of reference where there are currently none.
    2 points
  6. When the insurance company's first came up with their idea of rooting out false claims I thought it was a good idea. I figured there will be more money in the pot for myself. I talked to a lawyer whom I trust and he told me that that was a delaying tactic and that the actual cost of investigation, interrogation etc. etc. would cost far more than paying out on those claims. Seeing how much has been paid so far in legal fees I tend to agree with him. That being said if a smaller amount was offered up to all for dropping out with the possibility of more vetting of the claims I think a lot of
    2 points
  7. As for this dingy captain, if there is not a TCC statement in the packet, as BSA previously signaled by saying only supporting comments are allowed, that would pretty much ensure my "No" vote.
    2 points
  8. That is 100% not true. Districts are geographic areas of a Council. They do NOT own troops. Chartered Organizations own the troops. Until 2020, COs were all entities independent of BSA National or Councils (e.g. Masonic lodges, Catholic parish churches, etc.) In 2021 there was a second option introduced where the CO was your local Council (not district, Council). That is the EXCEPTION, the vast, vast, VAST majority of units are still "owned" by COs. independent of BSA National or Councils.
    2 points
  9. Really looking forward to this weekend. It will be the traditional big party that kicks off the summer at my Scout Camp! This was nixed last year by the pandemic, but it looks like we will have something like a "return-to-normal" this year. I will be so happy connect with many old and new Scouting friends. I hope that all of you fellow Scouters will have a great summer, too!
    2 points
  10. So, membership including complete units are disappearing. Participation in national events is dropping off, local camps are closing and being sold, and the National High Adventure Properties have been mortgaged. So in order to raise funds let's charge whatever members that are left a higher membership fee. Then, let's recruit new members and charge them a new member fee and tell them that they still have to pay for everything they do. In addition, let's build a super sized white elephant in West Virginia with all kinds of cool stuff that the majority of the members will never get to use,
    2 points
  11. 2 points
  12. "" The Boy Scouts of America posthumously awarded Chester County's Evan Bass the rank of Eagle Scout at a ceremony Monday in Chester. Evan, a Chester County high school student, athlete and dedicated member of Boy Scout Troop 61, died in a tragic ATV accident on April 10, 2020. He was 17. Family , Scouts and Community finished Evan’s Eagle Project. The Palmetto Council of the Boy Scouts of America also presented the Bass family with the Spirit of the Eagle Award, a posthumous award recognizing the achievements of Scouts who lost their lives to “untimely acciden
    1 point
  13. I know. I just like my Scarface reference better with the word “sovereign” in it. It was not a substantive note. I can’t hear Al Pacino using that terrible accent being able to properly mangle the word “legislative.” Can you? Send me the audio clip, if you do it! 😉
    1 point
  14. Say hello to their little friend, Sovereign Immunity. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/governmental_immunity
    1 point
  15. When I was talking about points of reference, I wasn't trying to be cute about where we live, what the patch looked like, who we remember being around at the time, the color of a car or driving by a park, and, etc. We are trying to map coordinates to "triangulate" and reveal the target location: data on the abuse. The abuser, the when, the what of the surroundings, the where and sometimes the precise details of the abuse. Some of those things should be discoverable/accessible to the memory to serve as clues. We build our case from the details we can provide. This, of course, includes fallout t
    1 point
  16. We are no different than many of the districts we see discussed here, in that we do not have enough of us, but our core group of commissioners and district committee members are extremely active, and are right there in the trenches along with unit leaders. I consider myself to be lucky to be a part of what many look at as the best district in a well run council. Just an example of how our council leadership is looking at the big picture: when it was announced that councils could charge a program fee up to, but no more than the national membership fee, they institued that fee with a cave
    1 point
  17. If we know where we lived, that is a point of reference. If we have any recollection of where we met, that is a reference point, even if not the full identification of the building or CO. If we know of anyone else involved in the program, that is a reference point. If we can describe the patch from our camp, that is a reference point. Are there any such threads to pull that will take us to more detail? These are the type of things I hope men with legitimate claims will try very hard to tease out and add to their POC.
    1 point
  18. I am not interested in denying any of my fellows a crack at whatever peanuts we're afforded, but I want to see at least some worn, crumbled and faded receipts, as well. I know many survivors from various age groups and abuse contexts. I don't know any who couldn't give you that information, in one form or another. Zero evidence or corroborating points of reference is not a good sign of viability, in MY opinion only. The TCC isn't begging claimants to file amendments with missing details for their good health and amusement.
    1 point
  19. How about how much time has past from the abuse, trying to keep it out of your mind for 40 to 50 years and now you are 70 or 80 years old and memories are not what they used to be. Good enough?
    1 point
  20. Insurance rights won't be "clear" until eyeballed from the rearview. We'll see on the LCs. It has to have some clarity coming out of the mediation. I go back to the previously well made point that the BSA managed to tick off both the TCC and the Coalition in stereo. Now, they have to contend with them in lockstep, effectively a bulwark against shenanigans.
    1 point
  21. Insurance rights wouldn't and couldn't be determined for years if they have to go through all 82,500 claims. I believe the plan(s) call for the Settlement Trustee to figure this out post-BSA bankruptcy. And LCs I agree: either an aggregate agreement in writing or council-by-council numbers. Ok, how much "missing" information until a person doesn't get a vote? I'm not being mean here, this is what the insurance companies are saying as well.
    1 point
  22. This goes directly back to the "Kosnoff has no influence" quip. I believe the vote on any possible deal will turn on how it is presented to the claimants by the TCC, Coalition and AIS. Let's be honest, the Committee and the attorneys are the filters and the hands that guide, which is appropriate. There are only a few thousand boneheads like me paddling our wee dingy in open water. Btw, when I say "TCC" I mean the committee of men, not necessarily their counsel. They represent us and the attorneys advise them. I trust those 9 guys to assess, dissect, analyze and communicate their thinkin
    1 point
  23. I think the big shock to our long term COs was BSA stating they were not covered by BSA insurance prior to 1976. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf
    1 point
  24. Good point. The reason for the mistrust is because most of the actions unit leaders see from commissioners has the perception of authority. Right or wrong, commissioners are perceived as disciplinaries for the districts. Most participants of adult leader training classes express that a major benefit of the classes is making new friends. How many of those participants or teachers are commissioners? Commissioners don't mingle enough within the activities to build a friendship and trust. If we choose to recruit experienced scouters for the role of commissioners, then they need to show
    1 point
  25. I am neither a lawyer nor any sort of expert in this litigation, but reading the threads on this over the last year, it seems like the mismatch of interests between the insurance companies and BSA has been a driver of delay. BSA wants out of bankruptcy fast, but insurance companies interests may be served by simple delay. It has sort of felt like a catch 22 — if insurers feel like they might pay less by dragging out, it is really is in their interest to do so. But dragging out could lead to the ‘BSA running out of money’ scenario that has been posited. If that happens, that clearly hur
    1 point
  26. My take for what is worth is that the National and the LC's have sweetened their offer but TCC is holding out for a bit more. The insurance company's (except Hartford) won't be included nor the CO's. Hartford wants to be part of the settlement and maybe has guaranteed the 650 million with no caveats and possibly increased the amount (insurance company's have been part of the mediation). If this is what is presented it will pass the vote (at least I would vote for it). Then the lawsuits can be filed against the insurers and the CO's.
    1 point
  27. The other side of the coin is that unit leaders need to be open to the guidance Commissioners give. Many unit leaders I know think that when a district or council person (vol or pro) shows up at their events, it only means trouble. Leaders must be continually developed. Youth and adult. I do not get the sense that this mindset exists in our council.
    1 point
  28. And for me that is a VERY big OH MY! When I was a DE one of the selling points to COs was that the charter fee to the BSA covered insurance that would protect the CO from things like this. If memory serves, language in the Charter Agreement covered this. If National, and the LCs to a lesser extent, will not honor their word and their contract, maybe BSA needs to die. I was taught "A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal... Brave...."
    1 point
  29. I could also imagine that they either are settling on the restricted assets (which means BSA giving up the OA$ and some HA bases) OR are agreeing to binding arbitration. I do not see the TCC giving up the fight over the hundreds of millions of BSA restricted assets through mediation.
    1 point
  30. Wrong thread? This is about fees and not charters.
    1 point
  31. What kind of device are you using to try to open the PDF with? On a PC, clicking on the links CynicalScouter provided above should open the file in another browser window. You should then have a 'save' icon in the top right of that browser that will allow you to save a copy to your computer, which you can then attach to an e-mail. When on my phone (Android, so not 100% sure for iPhone users) clicking the link also opens the PDF, and by using the 3 dots in the upper right, I again have the option to save a copy of the file, which I can attach to an e-mail.
    1 point
  32. I tried my best. I took the best stuff from others and passed it along. I loved my job. Kids happy, parents beaming, God is in his Heaven and all is well with the World. After thinking about it. If I could, I would pay the Council up to $1,000 a year if I could just help Packs go. Not to be someone important, just to be available to help deer-in-headlights parents get back on their feet. Ya, I'd pay a grand to be part of the solution. -The wife would be pissed as hell though. She hates all of it.
    1 point
  33. Well, that's the real issue. Information at the national level is convoluted, double talk with a lot of "they and we and not yet available " phrases. Never ever not one time have I gotten a straight answer, which leads to rumor and speculation. It may be that the fee increase is being used for the BSA National Staff retreat in Hawaii. Who knows?
    1 point
  34. After about 60 years following Scouting, I have never heard of folks thinking that the Boy Scout Troop they sponsored was an extension of the 'church'. They do NOT need to oversee the Scout Program..hopefully, they do not. 'Owned and Operated' is not appropriate and very, very few Churches would have the manpower to 'Own and Operate'. It is also a bit 'dangerous' when the Staff person and even their Councils consist of folks who have no knowledge or working experience of the BSA program...procedures, policies, and programs. Being a 'Cub Scout' once...does not an expert make. This is wha
    1 point
  35. He managed to convinced MANY of his clients to write letters, so I wouldn’t doubt it.
    1 point
  36. So how do we address this ? How to email, USPS the camp, how? Texas is a mite fer for me to travel.... Yes, the charcoal chimney works. Newspaper, twigs, hot coals, old Cub books.... The one I use is easily 20 years old. Self tapping screws hold it together now.
    1 point
  37. I dunno. Some see insolence towards the court, I see some smuck trying to sell his old broken fridge to a client. My $0.02,
    1 point
  38. The ongoing discussion in this thread wasn't ever directly about the LDS, Muttsy posted something fairly negative about the LDS in the Bankruptcy thread and there was a response or two from that, but it would likely have died at that point except that we started talking about organizational requirements associated with mandatory reporting and required reporting in general so the whole group of posts got broken out and a new thread was created. He didn't actually create a thread for the purpose of targeting the LDS. Frankly, yes, my preference for rules and laws is to institute the lea
    1 point
  39. I’ll restate: WB isn’t for anyone at any time. You have one advantage: you’ve read how much we don’t like when young adolescents are treated like children. You know that there’s a “Cub Scout Leader” switch, and that you have to tone it down. (FWIW, when I became a Crew Advisor, I needed to find the ASM switch and tone that down.) You were a Boy Scout, you can dig deep and remember what you got out of that program … what went well, what didn’t go so well, what you’d do differently. Knowing this puts you a step ahead of lots of adults. Being humble to your youth covers the remaini
    1 point
  40. I'm not sure how this is a false timeline, what I was talking about is the response time of government agencies, not how long the child would be "safe" for. Obviously if you think a kid is being abused "right now" you would call 911 for immediate help. But If you call any state agency except a police or fire emergency line, you aren't going to get someone jumping up out of their chair to go knock on the child's door to check on them. It will take a certain amount of time to record the information, do background checks, assign an investigator and then get the investigator out to make a first
    1 point
  41. First, welcome. Second, the Church can refuse to be a CO but enter into a facilities use agreement that, in effect, makes it nothing more than the rental unit for the unit. The Council becomes the de facto CO. And the Church doesn't need to give a valid reason: they cannot be compelled to be a CO. The entire Diocese of Dallas, for example, directed local parishes to end their roles as COs but did allow them to continue to rent facilities. These are the official forms from national https://www.scouting.org/resources/forms/ Short Form Facility Use Agreement Annual
    1 point
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