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I'll do my best to explain what I have seen in this thread, so hopefully I don't misconstrue the message. The one thing I would say about @ThenNow is that it does seem that he cares about the BSA and sees the value of the program. He has mentioned how impressed he is by what he sees from many of the comments .... volunteers who spend much if not most of their free time working to provide children an experience that is unique and provides life long value. That said, he was sexually abused in the worst way by his Scoutmaster. No one within the BSA prevented it or took action (as far as he ca

You've nailed the attitude that I think is so counterproductive to ever resolving youth protection issues in scouting. There are too many who want to rationalize away the situation because they somehow believe scouting is somehow the victim or that the good that it does is worth the cost of the damage.

Pardon the repetition but for anyone who needs a reminder and would like to discuss afterward issues that may be more connected to the "nuts and bolts" of this bankruptcy proceeding: TCC Town Hall Meeting reminder: Thursday 4/8 at 8PM EDT https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/84324072960 Given the TCC's objection to the BSA's attempt at submitting a reorganization plan this meeting may be of great interest to victims and local councils alike. The TCC also posts the video and transcripts afterwards.

It's not the same argument because you've changed the topic. We're not talking about boy scout fatalities vs. say, youth football fatalities, we are talking about sexual abuse, but it's interesting that you brought it up. Fatalities are also another matrix apart from abuse where scouting also does not fare well in comparison. Youth football incidents have also been tracked since 1931 in reporting similar to BSA's IV files. The difference? Football data has been comparatively transparent, and used to foster ongoing conversations and program modifications. We in BSA had no idea how

I think there is a big difference between identifying vulnerable kids and blaming them. I've never met a kid who consciously chose to be vulnerable. Schools identify at-risk kids all the time. We are trained to recognize them. We have meetings about them. We have counselors whose primary job is to work with them.

I think you've jumped in the deep end of victim blaming and then failed to tread water. Blaming a child victim of sexual molestation or rape and saying the antidote is to keep them out of the program instead of fixing the environment is a non-starter across the board, at least for me.

Anyone who completed the Boy Scout program from 11 to 17 has a valid right to express his opinions on scouting.

I think we've got to stop focusing on one thing. The IV files are just one symptom of a dysfunctional organization. There are a dozen things going wrong.

TCC Town Hall Meeting reminder: Thursday 4/8 at 8PM EDT https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/84324072960 Given the TCC's objection to the BSA's attempt at submitting a reorganization plan this meeting may be of great interest to victims and local councils alike. The TCC also posts the video and transcripts afterwards.

There’s always a variant ... most years we just aren’t bothered. My pandemic guy gets on a call with his buddies, and they pull a mix from their war chest that they think will match whatever’s spreading around. We tease him badly if he’s wrong. He tries harder the next year. It’s the highest-stakes gamble on the planet. Pediatric trials are starting. Meanwhile get your scouts out camping. We’ll know by autumn if a vaccine for the youngn’s does more good than harm.

COVID is here to stay. Read the research and listen to epidemiologists, and they all say the same thing: vaccines will be effective for 6 - 9 months, and then a booster will be needed to cover the variants. back in June/July there were over 30 variants. When I checked in March there were over 660 variants. This is one nasty bug.

I think hovering at 30,000 feet is fine to create distance and craft a theoretical, cultural narrative. There, it's reasonable to perceive this is a witch hunt because no other witches have kept a list of those on whom they've cast spells and BSA has crafted its own trap. It might be a worthy exercise for a separate moment. That macro level may be a good mental and emotional buffer, but this is about one boy being abused by an adult man who was/is a representative of the Boy Scouts of America. Get too much distance from that reality and this becomes a much easier matter to confront, couched in

As if the YP issue was not complicated enough with worrying about adult or older youth. This article is definitely fodder for consideration. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/201904/sexual-behaviors-in-children

At least a couple of Chartered Organizations that had filed claims for indemnity have now withdrawn their claims. Today's example is St. Paul's Evangelical Lutheran Church of Albion, in Albion, Michigan. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/885510_2544.pdf https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/claimdocket?clientid=CsgAAncz%2b6Yclmvv9%2fq5CGybTGevZSjdVimQq9zQutqmTPHesk4PZDyfOOLxIiIwZjXomPlMZCo%3d No idea whether the Board of Trustees just looked at the filings (or news about them) and decided that the likelihood of BSA actually covering them against any claim

I deliberately left that out. I didn't want anyone to misread my comment and quote me as saying children can consent to sexual abuse.

True. I had copies of the football injury data available to parents at football registration. Both the national data and our team data. Full disclosure. I couldn't do that at scout registrations. The data wasn't available.

I think you meant pseudoephedrine.

Please reread what @David CO posted below. My take is he wants to screen kids to better protect them from predators, not exclude them.

I'm sorry for your pain, I really am. But, I don't know why you are even here. I've talked to a lot of people about this subject and accepting for a couple of angry posters on this forum, nobody believes the BSA is haven for abused boys or predators. Sure, scouts were abused by bad people and laws were broken. The historical reputation of the scouting program holds it's integrity. I hope you get what is coming to you, but I also hope you get the help for getting a healthy mind and back to a normal life because telling off BSA members on a BSA forum is not going to do it. The BSA and it'

If the goal is 0 Covid, we will never do anything. I don't think that should be the goal. The goal should be to ensure our healthcare system is not overrun and that we don't see massive death. If we follow "science" we know that the vaccines are highly effective and are effective vs the variants. A surge and massive death is not going to happen regardless of what we do this summer (based on everything known today). Ramp up vaccines and work on expanding testing to find hot spots ... otherwise we should be reopening. By this summer, I expect every adult who is at any sort of risk has

And society has someone to blame for what is pretty much a society wide issue. It's about blame and labeling a group while pretending everyone else is better. Shame. It's a modern day bigotry and hatred.

That is a mix of truth. When you add "monthly", then yes. Remove monthly and keep un-related adults, remote locations, without cameras, without public supervision, overnights and now BSA is common with most youth serving organizations. Each organization has it's risk in different areas. Camps - Almost every youth servicing organization encourages one or more camps per year (YMCA, 4-H, girl camps, etc). Private times - most organizations have similar quantities of opportunities.

I agree as far as not allowing such things, but not calling it abuse. Barry

After what is happening to the BSA because of their internal database, I do not think any lawyer for a youth organization in their right mind would say this is a good idea. It opens them up to lawsuits.

It's not that any organization is special, it's that scouting creates specific and unique risks. I don't know if you noticed but one of those 4-H reports is from 2007 and the other is not about sexual abuse at all, it's about a bunch of teenage counselors running their own fight club. There are not a plethora of 4-H reports. BSA should be expected to have the gold standard YP program because it is the only youth organization that at least monthly has unrelated adults take unrelated kids off to remote locations without cameras or any other kind of public supervision for lengthy, overnight

Before we get too far, I should mention that there's already a locked thread and another unlocked thread about substantially the same question. I like the idea of random spot-checks, and outside audits, for YPT compliance and other policies. Some of it could be a Commissioner/DE thing, but supplement it with an additional level of checks from something totally outside BSA. The "outside" part could be some sort of investigative agency, or it could be (if they'd agree to it) employees or volunteers of GSUSA, or victims vetted by the TCC/FCR. Such a spot-check visit should be actually r

I agree with her about the trade off between compensating victims vs HA bases. A small percentage of our scouts go to a HA base, but virtually everyone of our scouts, Cub and Scouts BSA spends some time at our local camps. There are plenty of ways to do HA for the number of scouts who do it, reproducing summer camps and Cub day camp is much harder.

Two points: 1) You asserted previously that vicarious liability - "deep pockets" - is a relatively new concept. Not so. It's ancient. We're talking surfs and lords, with modifications and mutations dating back to the Anglo-Normans in the 1300's forward; and 2) Very few attorneys can win a jury trial without a plaintiff and some measure of injury. Many of the BSA claims may be subject to great scrutiny. Some may not hold up. As one of my supervising law partners told me early on, "You can sue anyone anytime for anything. You might not win, but you can file." Absent injuries (abuse), t

It's the same argument we see all the time Defund the police because of police abuse. We improve oversight and promote cameras. End football because of the number of players that die or are crippled for life. Okay we get helmets, protection pads and concussion protocols. Stop selling ibuprofen OTC because it can be used to make meth and meth destroys thousands of lives We recognize the good that things do and at the same time work to improve putting structures in place to mitigate the problems.