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My thought is everyone read the floated proposed requirements and said WTH, this is worthless. Must have been a lot of pushback. The language was suspect at best and agenda driven at worst. They decided to punt.

That was 20 years ago on an old computer that has crashed since. But I can kind of give an outline. I first discussed how scout growth is the result of scouts learning from their decisions. Lots and lots of decisions. Then I led into the problem that many adults aren't willing to let scouts make the harder lesson-learning-decisions because they are afraid of what a wrong decision will do. Adult Fears. Then we led into how to identify exactly what causes the fear because surprisingly adults don't think through that far when they say no. Let's use the five mile hike for example,

Sorry @Bowsprit, DE&I (the concept, not patch, not political mantra) is interesting. For example, to @Eagledad's point: A cultural issue, a broken family issue, and a drug and alcohol and tobacco issue. Plus, a negative feedback loop where educators in certain districts have expected less of my scouts. It's the latter that has to be defeated as it was for me about a century ago: The day that the school superintendent walked across town and explained to my grandfather why his kids should continue into middle and through high school ... is the day that rewrote history for eight

@CynicalScouter, Agreed, that bridge is burnt...they cannot go back Revised requirements, and possibly a name change for the badge (Human Rights Merit Badge) is the compromise we could see. But, knowing some of the history of BSA's poorly implemented changes, I am doubtful of the product they will deliver. Yet, I will remain the optimist, since they have delayed the release. I think it is a good sign of internal wrestling and compromise.

Through unofficial channels.

The discussion arose because posters were doing things so drastically different that their program can no longer achieve it's intended objectives. You even mentioned once your own sons enjoyed cubs more than the Troop. You certainly don't show respect for the program. I can only imagine you haven't observed scouts growing from their decisions because it is truly a wonderful feeling. Someone posted a video here a few months ago of a troop that in my area resembled more of a Webelos program than troop. The adults directed the cooking, kp, and other activities. The scouts appeared totally re

While we can point to other institutions such as schools that require a lower adult presence, the BSA is simply not in a position anymore to do that. We can mourn what once was, but the reality is that even if the BSA had the ability to go back to the way it ran 30+ years ago, it really should not. Perhaps one day down the road trust will return and processes will improve, but that is unlikely to occur in any of our lifetimes. The best thing for Scouts now is to figure out how to best operate in this new reality.

Well, if it's not resentment, then you've made it clear you don't like it. I understand the loss of not being able to free range our kids. I grew up that way. It's a better way to grow up. However, the reality is that that world is gone for reasons too numerous to list here. For scouters to try to hold onto that mentality now for this one particular aspect of troop management doesn't make any sense. It's hard to believe that it is really just that intolerable or outrageous to have enough adults on hand to maintain YPT in the event of an unanticipated event, especially when out with a larger g

@qwazse, There you go trying to impose some common sense again. Stop it, at once, you devil!

I've been in contract with my DE and, in turn, in contact with our CE. Our concerns are being heard. Diversity? In general, yes. Inclusion? Absolutely! Equity? Impossible. CRT garbage? Hard no...pass.

Anyone dare email the Office of the Chief Diversity Officer and point them to this discussion thread for input? https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/proposed-eagle-scout-required-diversity-equity-and-inclusion-merit-badge-delayed/ I do not email National any more. They have skewered me more than once for my questions, and it has been a factor in reprisals by my local SE, I believe.

System automatically merged my reply...didn't want it to

No. It is not necessarily racism just because something impacts one group more than another. Antimalarial medications can affect people of Middle Eastern and African descent, but generally doesn't affect Asians, Caucasians, and Native Americans/Native Australians. It isn't racist just because there are disparate outcomes. You have to take into account personal choices as well. Black people overwhelmingly choose to have babies outside of wedlock. The rate is staggering. It is a primary reason for the poverty rate for Black people and it's 100% within their control. It isn't racist just becau

Major League Baseball??

Reminds me of: "We learn from experience, and not all experience is good."

How do you learn to make good decisions? By making some bad ones and learning from your mistakes! Or, as a good commander of mine once said..."Every truly good soldier has dents in his helmet." Best to let them make some bad decisions now, while the consequences are small

I cannot imagine they will rescind it; THAT would look horrible. "Yes, we publicly committed to a DEI merit badge, but now we aren't." I suspect it will be retooled, revised, and put in place end of 2021.

This I agree with you on. It is only partially a cost problem, with rising tuition but programs heavily geared to assist racial minorities, and to a lesser extent low income whites. It is hard for a person who spent their youth in an apathetic, underfunded school, in a high crime area where getting through the day unscathed is more top of mind that getting good grades, to decide it might be better in college. Regarding DEI, more talking about this helps nobody. Been doing that for 50 years, with minimal results. This is an action item for localities.

They support my statement. More numbers of, and a higher percentage of, young men than ever before in our nation's history are enrolling in college, graduating from college, and getting advanced degrees. Bonus: their sisters, girlfriends, and wives are enrolling as well. Simply put, higher education has never been better for guys of any race/class. Regarding equity, minorities are still not entering academia at a desirable rate. That's a disparity creating disparities that are hard to overcome via trades. My hope is that new media will be able to help minorities sharpen their business acu

The good news with that is that teen pregnancy is down. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/02/why-is-the-teen-birth-rate-falling/ I think the internet and video gaming has a role to play in that, as well.

Remimds me of another metric or two. Boys and young men are measurably less interested in dating than they ever used to be. And not by a little bit. Girls are increasingly frustrated with the difficulty in finding a respectful and responsible boy to date. They seem to have the most consistent luck... at all boys schools. That's from Dr. Leonard Sax

These seem to support your numbers... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/11/gender-education-gap/546677/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/ Side note...In 1984, I went to a four year school (enrollment about 15K students) that was traditionally a teacher's college...female to male ratio was 3:1. I really enjoyed my college years

No, but your enrollment numbers tell the same story. That's a 9 percent gap, before actually doing any higher schooling. It was 50/50 for a long time, and heavily weighted male prior to that for well known reasons of cultural disuasion for girls to attend college.

National Center for Education Statistics data thru 2018... https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_302.10.asp?current=yes Females completing HS: 1.598M, of which, 45.2% go on to a 4-year institution, so overall, 772.3K Males: 1.614M, of which, 42.0% go on to a 4-year....so overall, 667.9K So female % of total enrollees is 53.6% Male % of enrollees is 46.4% Close approximation of enrollees, female to male is 55:45 Now I'm off to find graduation rates...

Barry, Was one of your sessions on "How to Bite Your Lip?" Or, "Recite this phrase from memory, "Did you ask your Patrol Leader?""??? It is amazing how many adults are unwilling to let them struggle sometimes. I even had a Scout show up to a trip once, and he said, "I forgot to buy the stuff we need for dinner tonight!" Me: "Well, you'll have to figure out a solution with your Patrol Leader, or skip the meal." His mother had a huge problem with that. She wanted to rush off to the store and buy the items he needed. I pulled her aside for a discussion. 1. Do

I actually created an adult leadership course on how to get past fears that restrict scouts from doing their activities and making decisions. Motivation to create the course come from a new troop I was asked to help. The adults were all new and they wouldn't even let their scouts (all first year scouts) lead a flag ceremony because they believed the scouts didn't have the maturity to recite the Pledge of Elegance, Law, or oath without messing up. The steps to get past our fears are simple really, identify the fear and then train the adults or scouts how to deal with the situation of the

When I felt this, when I saw this... I knew why adults volunteered so many years. To see, from a distance, a patrol "get the job done" or to see them work out there differences or plan something... it was amazing. I feel like I have to use clichés, but this is the magic. No adults, just the Scouts, doing Scouting. Again, we are there for safety and to avoid large monetary loss. Other than that, it is theirs.

I do believe that JTE needs to exist in some form. I was a long time Troop Committee Chair of a solid "Grade A" troop. Were we perfect - no, certainly not. But, when we got to JTE time we always achieved gold because we were doing most of the things on the form already. We had high participation, great program, lots of advancement, were the largest troop in the district, had a lot of adult volunteers, etc. We achieved all of this because we had a solid team of adults volunteers who were minding the ship. When I retired and started helping in the district, I realized the same thi

Exactly. But this discussion arose because people were complaining about having to do things differently.

Same can be said for scouts. Scouting is drastically and YPT is drastically different than what it was when most of the abuse happened. Drastically different. Yep. It's habit in our troop when one adult goes to check on things, a second adult tags along. and helicoptering leaders. The simple fact is we don't need to check up on our scouts as much as we think. A favorite example is summer camp. It's okay to walk around camp to see how things are going. I really think it's a bad thing to assign adults to check each merit badge session to see if the scouts

Still? That’s what it was 25 years ago. So, a troop could still send 40 scouts on a campout with 2 adults. The issue isn’t liability or higher risks, the issue is more acceptance of helicopter parenting. Scouts will develop only to the maturity that they are respected. i know the solution, but do parents want a solution? Barry

There were no cameras in my High School classrooms or teachers offices. (2012 graduate) I remember having to make up assignments after school where I was totally alone with the just the teacher, and during my study hall period I'd go down to the band room to practice, and it'd just be me and the band teacher there. Maybe that's changed in the last 8 years, but I'm skeptical. Abuse does happen in Schools. There's no point pretending that it doesn't. That doesn't let the BSA off the hook. Yes, child abuse does happen at School or on Scout outings, but when I've read the stories of some of th

Reminds us of A Modest Proposal

Which minorities? My high school teacher son has been teaching in higher risk schools for over ten years and he says that resistance to higher education (or even K-12 education) is a cultural issue, not an opportunity issue. Barry

I respectfully disagree, based on many metrics, including the current success rates of boys vs girls in school at all ages, the 60:40 college graduation rate favoring females, and the disproportionately higher rate of suicide for boys. I also don't believe the "short" camping period has a relationship with the retention quality of what is being taught at those camps.