Leaderboard

As I recall, the consensus of the longtime Scouters I knew was that it was a MB that didn't do any harm, might help some Scouts, but that it was ridiculous for it to be Eagle-required. This DI&E MB is Maoist or Stalinist indoctrination IMO -- utterly ridiculous. Citizenship in the Community could have had a few requirements added to address an expanded view of "community" but creating a whole new MB -- much less making it Eagle-required -- is more social justice nonsense from the folks in Irving that have been destroying Scouting from within for the last decade or two.

As usual, National missed the boat by not marketing the program as a natural for developing habits of DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION. They only have to show how the BSA Mission is to develop young people into ethical and moral decisions based from the Oath and Law. But no, National is following the politically correct route and setting an image of making change where none is required. I wonder how many even know their Vision and Mission. I have many stories of scouts and parents telling how the activities or our units changed their sons understanding of other's differences.

@Owls_are_cool (and anyone in his position), as a general rule, if your son wants to take a break from scouting or leave it altogether ... let him. Don’t let current events be a tipping point one way or another. Regarding requiring this badge for Eagle. Nobody has to earn Eagle. No SM has to encourage a scout to earn it. I recommend that you take this as an opportunity to use advancement for something different: fun. Enjoy the hiking and camping and service projects and get scouts to Life rank. The few who want to be Eagle Scouts will find their way.

The problem is the appearance of indoctrination, not education. At the very least the MB has a lecturing knee-jerk feel to it. By the nature of the program's core values, Scouting has always been a safe place. Will a MB change that? AND, there will always be bad acting by unit leaders. Will a MB change that? The BSA already has the core values in place to guide and judge acceptable behavior toward other peoples differences with a proven program method to practice those values. The program shouldn't add more repetitive systematic bureaucracy that does nothing to improve the method of

Maybe not pencil whip, but they will add their views, opinions and twists on it. If I look at the mix of scout leaders that I know, they help all and are very equal minded people. BUT, they are old-fashioned and take more direct action. The more I think about this, perhaps BSA and I are headed in different directions. I'm 100% supportive of teaching scouts by example; using Scout Oath and Law as fundamental principles. Scouts learn a huge amount by having to sleep in a tent they setup and having to cook and clean their own meals. Outside activities are a great teaching mechanism. I'

We did videos on Boards of Review back when Scouts were trusted to do thm. We were lucky o have a day with years in community theater as a director. Still, it was trial and error. The "final" version proved not to be as good as the fourth "final" - "Thorns and Roses. The bad example, with the victim slding under the table and putting up a small whote flag was well reveived. It made the "roses" part more understandable. In a year, BSA decided adults must do it. Turns out, we needed to show the adults the same video. Why didn''t we do a PLC? Should have. We used to invite Scouts a

Not a activity or basic learning. Camping and cooking are explicit core activities our scouts do continually. Exposing political views is not an activity or part of the core program. Further, D,E&I focuses on teaching views. Should we make the Scout Oath and Law a merit badge?

Our troop became the DE's favorite troop for disabled boys. Our first Eagle was deaf. The reputation was actually a worry for me because we are true boy run patrol method troop. Some disabilities require more assistance than a typical patrol can handle and parents had to make tough decisions. I will never forget telling the father of one scout that we were unable to keep his severely mentally retarded son safe in our troop. He had wandered off into the woods in the middle of a cold rainy night without any clothes and if not for an alert older scout, he could have been really hurt. O

We need to review the requirements and learn from each other the best way to run the Merit Badge instruction for it. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the merit badge. All youth should feel that scouting is a safe place for them. I have had a scout persecuted by adult leaders in a prior unit because of his orientation. That was backed by their Church COR and they attempted to defend it when they were called out for this anti-scouting behavior. Inclusion of youth is a good thing, IMHO. It is also a good thing to get rid of systematic racism and razing awareness of the existe

There's a reason why at the Cub Scout level the Duty to God related adventures and at Scouts, BSA the Family Life merit badge explicitly provide for the PARENTS to certify/sign off. Because while I would be hard pressed to find a religious or moral objection to using two half hitches vs. a taut line hitch, I absolutely know and can identify families and major religious denominations in the U.S. that religious or moral objections to how "inclusive" we as a national are regarding sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. Case in point: I honestly have no idea how a unit with a Cath

I've always struggled with Eagle requirements that involve normal scouting skills. Let's stop the bleeding and stop. Merit badges were originally added to the program to give scouts a taste of other interest outside scouting, possibly a career. Should camping and cooking really be a requirement for what every scout does on every campout? The Eagle should represent scouts who display above average decisions of moral and ethical character. Order of the Arrow once required those traits from their candidates,. Which is why Arrowmen were held in such high respect. Arrowmen weren't honored

Proably best for me to back out of this discussion. My views and frustrations with this badge are well known. I just don't want to promote the badge. I agreed to get my sons into scouting to learn camping, outdoor activities and some amount of self-reliance. Glad it was a chance to build friendships. I was 100% ok with the citizenship and patriotism. Religious parts were fine and I'm glad they were there, but it was not a driving part. This badge crosses the line into politics. It's not for me or my time.

If you listen to the BSA Office hours in November, they made a point and took pride that they kept the "politics" out of this merit badge. Surely, that must be true! /sarcasm

Agreed. Eagle is just not that important. Our scouts benefit from hiking, camping, service projects, etc. As much as I've helped a huge number of scouts earn Eagle, ... it's just not that important. I've wanted my sons to get Eagle not because it's a huge achievement or they will grow from it that much. I've wanted them to earn it because then they are stuck for the rest of their lives living up to that image of an Eagle scout.

It will be real interesting how this "vetting" is going to be enforced. It is so hard to get MBCs anyway (YPT and now many councils like mine require they be position trained) I suspect some "vetting" will be lacksidasial at best. At least with SCUBA, shotgun, and the like there was a clear certifying body (or bodies in SCUBA?) with a certication program. I suspect there will be a Scouting U. DE&I video shortly that DE&I MBCS will have to take and pass.

So, thru work I've taken 30 years worth of annual training on non-discrimination. As part of interviewing and hiring, I've had to take additional training. Can I use all that 30 years worth of training and experience to be vetted? Or is it something more. ... sounds like vetting will be a form of discrimnation.

It's easy to be anti-trump. I'd say the guy is a putz, but that would be too generous. America is pro-inclusion from the heart of the Constitution. Absolutely agreed that we need to listen to all sides. My experience though is that these are such heated discussions that we can't openly discuss without breaking relationships. Isn't it the old adage to never discuss religion or politics at the dinner table? But we think it's the safe place in scouting to do that? Reverse discrimination. Identity politics. Failure of the drug war. Breakdown of the nuclear family

Well said .... I'd upvote your post, but I fear the last statement. Exactly how it should be. Keep leader politics out of scouting. Exactly how it should be. Activities over sit-down meetinsg or power-point merit badges. IMHO, there is little place in scouting for power-point and lectures. ... Perhaps we should adopt a rule from my work about daily status meetings. Applied to scouting, all scouting lectures / teaching should be done with everyone STANDING, huddled together. It encourages lecutres to be five minutes or less so that scouts can get back to being activ

My life observation of these things is those with a strong personal opinion for controversial changes are the ones likely to pencil whip (aka process without meaningful results) to insure the ideal is forced in the system (program).. Barry

The leaked/draft absolutely made clear: BSA will impose its view of sexual morals and "inclusion", parents and churches be darned. As I said: the Catholic units are going to have to explain why they belong to a "sexist" organization that does not allow for female ordination and same sex marriage. Or they can do what I suspect a LOT of units will do: check a box and send the scout on their way.

I have made it clear to my district advancement chair: especially given that this is going to address sexual conduct (sexual orientation and gender identity) I want parents written consent prior to each session or a parental opt-out. I've been told that is OK for my district: parents will be given an opt out. Based on that I agreed to be a MBC for this. I can assure you I will not "pencil whip" scouts. I will, however, acknowledge and respect parental rights to educate their children in the area of sexual mores and conduct UNLESS GIVEN WRITTEN CONSENT.

Maybe the Council or district can get the local blm chapter or lgbtqxyz group to " vet" the mbc. This wokeness will drive scouts, volunteers, and charter organizations away. How much do you think the parents and churches will put up with. Commence with the flaming and down votes.

You know exactly why special vetting is required. They want to be sure they are not handing this off to the "wrong" kind of MBC. I suspect this will require outside or additional certification or clearance by a district or council DE&I "task force".

Latest update from a reliable source 1) Final merit badge requirements will be released tonight or tomorrow TO COUNCILS. 2) Will be announced end of the week TO PUBLIC. 3) What's holding up the process? "finalization of how merit badge counselors could be 'vetted' by local Council advancement committees/task forces." (only social justice warriors need apply?) 4) Expect to see the May 1 Eagle-mandatory pushed back to July 1.

Paperwork submitted.

I just read and watched the YouTube video. Extremely well produced. Comments seemed to reflect real concern. It's interesting as the video mentioned fosturing open discussion. As a professional ... and because of my gender and race ... to protect my career and future ... the last thing I can do is participate in an open discussion on this topic. It's best for me to quietly listen. Any response or comment can quickly get out of control.

I strongly recommend your son schedule a meeting with your troop's Eagle coach(es) before getting too involved with the proposal. There are frequently local tips and tricks to be shared (District/Council idiosyncrasies, preferred beneficiaries/beneficiaries to avoid, permitting assistance, resources, etc). The coach also helps the scout develop a realistic schedule and provides non-parental accountability. Good luck!

Yep. Kind of like breaking up the phone company. If it helps the youth then I'm for it. Besides, the term scout is bigger than either of the 2 organizations. And I'm not talking about Israeli Scouts or Polish Scouts, both of which reside in the US and nobody seems too bothered by. Let Trail Life call themselves a scouting organization, because they are. Same for BPSA. Who doesn't think the S stands for Scout? There has to be a legal principal that if it walks like a scout, talks like a scout and eats like a scout, then it's a scout.

I would also note that, frankly, Boy Scouts of America has been cooking since inception. Food, water, and shelter, and cooking covers 2 out of 3. In other words, "rolling out" cooking was taking existing BSA work for a century and figuring out what was and was not needed plus some modern understandings of diet (mention of the USDA food pyramid, healthy eating). In other words, and again I wasn't there, I do not get the impression that Cooking was something that had to be invented. It was always part of part of outdoor exploration. Plus, and I could be wrong, there's not a lot of moral,

I have struggled all evening over whether or not to post this, but my heart tells me I must, and so, having learned never to doubt my heart when it speaks so clearly, here are my thoughts. I actually and truly believe this is one of the saddest changes and toughest blows yet to this generation of young boys who are struggling to grow up in today's increasingly identity-challenged society. The entire purpose of the magazine's creation was to give boys - future men - a monthly collection of stories, articles, selections and even advertisements tailored specifically to the interests of boys

You also show that you do not know what "civil discourse" means. I am trying to enhance my understanding of the requirements for this Merit Badge, the motives behind it, and it's intended purpose. Reading for comprehension is essential to enhancing your understanding of someone's point of view. How about another point of view? Would you listen to Dr. Thomas Sowell?

It's a metaphor. And "...a portion of what remains..." does not mean the entire organization. Please read for comprehension. It is vitally important in order to relate to others. Any arguments are welcome, as long they can back up positions with facts and logic. Otherwise they are just opinions. And opinions are like a certain part of the anatomy...everyone has one, and they all stink. And Dr. Jordan Peterson is a "darling" because he uses research, facts, and clinical experience to back up his arguments. In other words, he follows the science, instead of using feelings

You forgot ability, ethnicity, faith and financial background. And that is the crux of my point. In listing some groups, you are showing bias against others. Ultimately, the badge is hypocritical. The "important" (sic) terms of "diversity", "equity", "inclusion", "bigotry" and "intersectionality" are all based on the controversy whirling around a current social agenda. "There are real problems with this agenda, however. The first is that it’s dangerous, in exactly the manner it is hypothetically designed to fight. The argument made by those who are truly prejudiced has alw

Every single one of these are between a) the scout and their parent b) the scout and their religious leader c) both. The checkoff/approval is by the parent or the religious leader (OR for the religious awards, a mentor/instructor approved by that faith/denomination). This however allows a Lutheran MBC to instruct and sign off on the Catholic scout and his/her's views on inclusive as they relate to gender identity and sexual orientation. And if the Lutheran thinks the Catholic Church's teachings on women priests and and sexual orientation are stupid? No sign off. Putting aside that th

Good question. qwazse, Injecting your bias on how to do a lashing or how to gather and use tender is much different, I hope you would agree, than injecting your bias on sexual orientation or gender identity.

Does race exist? Duke ... https://scienceandsociety.duke.edu/does-race-exist/#:~:text=In a landmark paper based,between two different population subgroups. National Geographic ... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/ Is it right to tax current/future children to pay for the sins of the past? Should the U.S. pay reparations? How to know who receives money? Policing ? Defund? Is it acceptable to call all cops bastards? Should cops benefit from being assumed innocent?

A to-the-point editorial today by Tucker Carlson on FoxNews. Find and read/view The military goes woke, and the consequences could be disastrous "Over time, identity politics will destroy our country. No nation can remain unified for long if people are encouraged to think of themselves as members of competing ethnic groups first and citizens second. Countries need a reason to hang together; unity doesn't happen by accident. The fixation on race that has seized our leadership class guarantees permanent disunity. It's terrifying if you think about it, but it could be much worse." "The

@EagledadBarry, thank you. What we really need is a Merit Badge that teaches classical disciplines of Logic and Rhetoric versus emotion and persuasion. https://www.hillsdale.edu/hillsdale-blog/writers/logic-rhetoric-intellectual-self-defense/#:~:text=Logic and rhetoric are the,things differently%2C but not defenselessly.

@fred8033, to your point, and to move the discussion forward with you I respectfully ask you to search for a You Tube video on the interview with Mike Rowe (an Distinguished Eagle Scout, I'm sure you know) titled The Scouts' wounds are 'self-inflicted' To save those whose feelings would be hurt by the content of that video, and not to burden the thinly stretched moderator corps, I will not post the video here. It goes to the heart of the discussion here.

The video was 100% on target and useful to the discussion. The point is the D,E&I badge will pull in politics. Period. The video was 100% on-topic. BSA was the original non-political organization. Hold up and wave the flag. I'm good with that. Pledge of allegiance. Fine. Teaching how government works fine. I've been involved for almost 20 years. Perhaps it's time for me to finish up too. It's not that I don't want to be part of an organization like BSA. I'm not sure I want my kids involved and subject to the whims of political discussions like this, left or right. T

"must pertain to the original post and respectfully move the discussion forward." How does this not pertain to DI&E MB requirements? Req 1. The video address facts and opinions of influential people who are members of a perceived disaffected group. Helps to understand what "equity" and "bigotry" are and are not. These people are perfect examples of "upstanders." They witness unjust accusations and asperisons being cast, and they address them publicly with facts and experience. Req 2. Self-evident Req 3. Replete with examples Req 6.

The video was 100% on-topic. Many people believe the DE&I badge is propaganda and can't be taught constructively without pulling in individuals personal political beliefs. The video has 100% on-topic discussion topics. Is race real? Is it useful to discuss? Where do the issues start? How to work with police? Removing that video is today's canceling culture and is censorship. If you want this badge, we need the ability to discuss and debate the topics in the badge.

Please help me understand which rule this violated? Permitted and Prohibited Uses You may use the the Website for the sole purpose of sharing and exchanging ideas with other Users. You may not use the the Website to violate any applicable local, state, national, or international law, including without limitation any applicable laws relating to antitrust or other illegal trade or business practices, federal and state securities laws, regulations promulgated by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, any rules of any national or other securities exchange, and any U.S. laws, rules, a

Because subversion and deceit go against the Scout Oath and Law, and my own personal code of ethics.

Two sided discussion is important. This badge can not sit in a one-sided political vacuum. The issues raised here really reflect that we've failed to teach "civics" as a school topic and "civility" as a social need. We need to be able to discuss these topics. That means that videos like about should be discussed without people getting upset and irate at each other. Welcome to the D,E&I (pronounced deny) badge.

Because of the inherent political agenda of the entire enterprise, and the misguided intent with which it has been established. I will not indoctrinate Scouts into the language and mindset of "social justice warriors". Nor will I tread on territory I deem sacrosanct to parents. Over the past few weeks, I have been deep in research and thought, prayer, and in discussion with conservatives and liberals whose opinions I value. This may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and ushers me out the door of the Boy Scouts of America. Although I have a fundamental belief that our Amer

It has been confirmed: you will need to be "vetted" (that was the word used) by a district or council "task force" or the advancement committee specially for this MB. The requirements were agreed in November; the vetting process and how that will be done is what has held things up. Again, the only MBs I am aware of this happening before is things like shotgun shooting, you know, where the kid may wind up DEAD if the MBC screws this up. But DE&I? We all know what it is code for: you must prove you are a social justice warrior before you can be a MBC for this or at least mouth the

No, censorship would be deleting the posts, locking the thread, and banning those that participated. Go ahead and discuss as much as you want. The reason we put in that rule was that it was too easy for people to create a bunch of content that reflected their anger about something without thinking about all of the content they've posted. That's where threads tend to go bad. What we want is for people to spend the time to pick their words carefully. That's not censorship. That's asking for civil discourse among people that disagree with each other.

I am being serious. This is the crux of my point. A lot of people seems worried about political indoctrination here but are missing the clear parallel with the religious aspect of the program. In both places, the BSA wants to get kids thinking and talking about how they conduct themselves. In the religious setting, they want kids to think about how the demonstrate their duty to god. In the area of diversity, equality, and inclusion the BSA wants to get kids thinking about how they conduct themselves and in act in a country where different races, genders, sexual preferences, and gende

Wow. I guess civil discourse has truest gone the way of the dodo. Please let me know what your preferred agreements are in favor of your position so I can just feed them to you.