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  1. As the time that a vote total approaches, I encourage everyone to repeat the Scout Oath and Law several times to remind us how to treat one another. There are victims here who wish for the plan to fail. If it does, they will be pleased and if not, they will be very unhappy. Scouters wish for them to be compensated as they deserve some level of compensation. Also, this list is for Scouters interested in bettering Scouting. Many of us have been on these forums for many years. Though they want victims to be compensated, many (most ?) feel that the present plan is a good compromise.
    14 points
  2. I don't think anyone said that. What they said is that we shouldn't just do weekly meetings and eliminate the outdoor program. Honestly, scouting without an outdoor program is not scouting ... its school. So why continue? Risk management is not eliminating all risks. It is mitigating them while still ensuring the program/process/product can continue. My son downhill skis. Yes, he can die. He could get seriously injured. He wears safety equipment and skis within his ability ... but there is still the risk. The ski club makes me sign a wavier to tell me of the risks. My
    12 points
  3. This is Doug Kennedy, a member of the TCC. First, I want to thank all of you for your comments over the past 18 months. Your comments and those in other forums, whether I disagree with them or not, have helped inform me as I work to represent all Survivors. As many of you know, the Coalition has made some statements both in the hearing yesterday and in a press release this morning. I find them horrible and the rest of the TCC does as well. Tonight is a TCC Town Hall and I invite you to attend so that you can hear directly how we feel about several issues. As well, we are going to hold mo
    12 points
  4. The SCOUTER.com virtual campfire has been lighting our community now for more than 25 years. It's hard for me to imagine that so much time has passed, and the thousands of Scouts and Scouters around the world that have learned and shared together. These are obviously incredibly trying times for Scouting and enormous transition for the organization. But I have always believed that the very best of Scouting was at the grassroots, found in the mentoring relationship of a leader and young Scout, honed on cold winter campouts and sharpened by the lessons of leadership and service. And these fo
    12 points
  5. I have been reading this blog for months and finally decided to express how I feel about this plan. I have always and continue to believe there are thousands of fraudulent sexual abuse claims filed in this bankruptcy. I also believe there are thousand of legitimate abuse claims that have not been filed. I am frankly disgusted by the lawyers of the Coalition and more specifically those of AIS. The coalition and the “supposed non organization” (AIS) actively recruited “victims” without, in my opinion, any legitimate vetting. My attorneys required a vast amount of evidence, which I provided,
    11 points
  6. The bankruptcy discussion is depressing me. So I have need to focus of good news, like last night. While I have been involved in Scouting as a Scouter for almost 30 years now, and have worked with I don't know how many Scouts over the years, last night was special. I sat on an EBOR for a Scout who was in my first Tiger Cub den back in the day. He is the second one in my den to make Eagle (the first being my oldest), and having watched him grow up I am really proud of him. Especially with the challenges at home he faced. This is a young man who will go far in life.
    11 points
  7. Forums work well in many ways, but it is probably not the best way to discuss the difficult feelings of this bankruptcy while also discussing the impact to child sex abuse survivors. However, there are not a lot of avenues for this discussion so as long as it remains scoutlike it can continue. That said, I do ask everyone to be patient with each other and not necessarily jump on a single word or phrase as a line of attack. Again, if we were sitting in person, it would be easier to read tone or intent in messaging. Forums are a bit unartful to communicate emotion. I really don't b
    11 points
  8. A friend contacted me privately, concerned I've not been posting. He knows I am on all the hearings and was checking in on me. Honestly, Eagle1993 does such an excellent job I had little to add. My attempts at comic relief are often not well received (by some) and get shut down. Literally. Last time, I crashed the internet with an incouous though highly relevant observation about the repetitiveness of the presentations and arguments. We shall see what happens this time as I attempt to be serious. For the first day in, let's say, 787 days I feel nothing. I hear nothing. I have nothing to resear
    10 points
  9. A few months ago, one of the posters here offered some great advice I thought. Type what you intend to say. Set it aside for a few minutes and look at it again before you press "post". Does it really say what I intend for it to say? Does it come across as respectful to the readers? We are in a challenging and painful environment. For some of the posters here, Scouting represents the start of a lifelong nightmare which has been brought once again to the surface. For others, Scouting has been a wonderful, life changing experience full of friendships and good memories. And an im
    10 points
  10. Great - another sit in a class and try to stay awake merit badge. Boy Scouts, in order to differentiate the program in the market place, needs to be action and activity oriented, not more schooling. News flash, there is a ton of sit in class stuff available to youth these days. As has been noted, better solution would have been to work some changes in to the EXISTING Citizenship MB's and move on
    10 points
  11. Taking over? Sounds like it already took over for you. Ask your wife. I know of many people that got in too deep, never said no, got burned out and then got angry. They left scouts, never to help out again and are bitter as well. To be honest, I've seen this often enough that I've come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the program. It takes too many adults to make it work.
    10 points
  12. After over 4 years of working in the field, today was my last day as a Professional Scouter. It's been an incredible ride, but it's time for me to move on and start the next chapter in my life. Thank you to everyone on this forum over the past years who helped me grow as a Pro. If you ever have any questions about Professional side of Scouting, or "the Dark Side", please don't hesitate to reach out. Volunteers are some of the kindest, most selfless people you will ever meet in this world. It was truly an honor to serve them, and I will miss working with them dearly.
    10 points
  13. So I have been given a lot of awards in scouting. More knots than allowed on a uniform, never thought much about them and kinda blew them off. Well tonight at our Bridge of Honor, I was awarded the Unit Leader Award of Merit. The thing that makes this stand out to me is that I was nominated and recommended for the award by my scouts. That makes it special to me.
    10 points
  14. I want to apologize for me cussing in my comment last week.I let my anger take control of my response.Please accept my apology.I don't want Scouts to shutdown.Even though I was abused I've seen a lot of good in the Scouts.My scoutmaster God rest his soul was by far the greatest scoutmaster a kid could ask for.I learned a lot from him.I guess my anger flared up when someone said how we want to only talk about the bad well we do.Most victims have been carrying this heavy load for a very long time by ourselves. And speaking for only me, Im 50 years old and I'm finally strong enough to share my st
    9 points
  15. Dr. Doug Kennedy made an impassioned speech to the court and asked the Judge to keep her focus on the survivors as she makes her decision(s). Jessica Lauria thanks the court for the time devoted. A few more letters/filings will come in on the docket including minor changes to the plan (coming in next week). Next Friday will be a general hearing and the only topic is the sale of the BSA distribution center. Judge thanks all of the staff that made this so smooth. Hearing was pulled off very well and great teamwork between firms. February 2020 until mid April 2022. Matter is un
    9 points
  16. I want need to thank you. By speaking up here, you have put a (virtual) face on the issue. By sharing some of the stories of your abuse, you have made it feel real in ways that "numbers" can't. By opening up about the struggles you have faced as a result of the abuse, you have exposed raw truths which many of us have probably never even considered. I am terribly sorry it happened to you. But I am grateful you are here. now. at the virtual campfire. with other scouters. I have learned a lot from you. I especially want to say these things to @ThenNow. You have given me a lot to t
    9 points
  17. Tonight was my last AOL Den Meeting. Scouts have 1 or 2 requirements here and there to complete, but all are essentially done. They are going to start attending Troop Meetings and getting to know the Scouts there. I started with Tigers 4 1/2 years ago. I have 3 Tigers left from that original group that are going to crossover.
    9 points
  18. This is a huge topic, but I agree that a complete review is required. My bio, resume, or whatever it is, on my profile, many positions held for 5 to 15 years simultaneously, I have had extensive experience as a scout, camp and Philmont Ranger Staff (one year responsible for the training of the entire Ranger staff), observing, teaching, and mentoring scouts, my three sons included. I have noted a tremendous diminution in the outdoor skills learned, or that are required to be learned, by scouts. And that few to none have actually mastered them. There is much to be said for requir
    9 points
  19. One of the minor problems I have with this badge, which is the same issue I have with the disability badge, is the requirement to find and talk with someone who is disabled or, in this case, different from you. This kind of turns different scouts, as it does with disabled scouts, into unwitting and perhaps in some cases unwilling "specimens" for investigation to get a badge. We've all had scout who are pretty zealous in their pursuit of knocking off a merit badge requirement. I hope counselors for this badge will talk about tact when seeking out someone to talk to. Not every disabled kid wants
    9 points
  20. Scouter.com is not well liked by National and believe me, while we are all scouters, we have various opinions of BSA. I think if BSA fails, we will help build up a new scouting organization. If you want to know what national thinks of scouter.com just read this article .. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/boy-scouts-confusion-about-girls-in-boy-scouts#.pfl5BBjVE We do our best to allow topics to be discussed without editing/censorship. You will find that this forum is much more open than reddit/bsa or reddit/boyscouts or any BSA facebook group. However, there are ti
    9 points
  21. @CynicalScouter Thanks from me and frankly, surely everyone, for tracking on the status of National's bankruptcy pleadings, and the procedural steps, past and pending, in the Bankruptcy case. And your commentary thereon. It is no small task to monitor, summarize, and report on the significance of pleadings filed. Your efforts surely enable many non-lawyers to meaningfully follow along on a largely otherwise indecipherable process. Thank you.
    9 points
  22. The mental fallout from my abuse was mostly dormant prior to the current lawsuit. It would still torment me in idle moments. Or at night sometimes when I lay in bed trying not to blame myself after so many years for something I didn’t even understand at age 11. After I signed onto the lawsuit I began to scavenge info from the web, constantly looking for updates. It became almost an obsession. Thats how I found this forum. The dialog here calms me to a degree. Perhaps being among birds of a feather, both as a survivor and as a former Scout. Please don’t lock the thread. It’s a va
    9 points
  23. We're going to split the ch11.x thread in 2. The original will be kept as it was intended, for the legal aspects of the case and everything else will go here. In a nutshell, if the judge is dealing with the details of it or the lawyers are arguing over it, it goes in the old thread. Everything else goes here. That means if it's about what's morally correct vs legally correct, it goes here. If it's about the future of the chartered orgs, it goes here. If it's about what the BSA knew when, it goes here. If it's about healing, it goes here. If it's about what YP should look like, it goes here.
    8 points
  24. I just finished reading Bates' report. Now I have a headache. It's well-written, but a bunch of spin. So we're too old to deserve a decent settlement? While I get the sol issue, if a suit is valid, there's no telling what a jury would do. My abuser was a BSA employee who signed my merit badge card. So there's not much question as to BSA liability. If they reduce my claim by 90% for sol, then scale it down because I'm old, I just don't know why I'm bothering. Maybe they could add a couple of additional minus-scaling factors and I will owe the BSA. But the concept of this being
    8 points
  25. Looking through the changes, I think BSA avoided controversy which is fine. I really question why we couldn't just add or change a few requirements in Citizenship in the Community and call it a day.
    8 points
  26. No one here, except members who are claimants, have any part of deciding anything in this bankruptcy. Let's drop the personal criticism of others who express in a scoutlike way their differing opinions. Thanks, RS @gpurlee@T2Eagle @Eagle1993 @MattR@elitts
    8 points
  27. I person like the 1952 to 1965 stent where you found your own path outside the first 10. In addition you can make sure there is a diverse skill set earned and only some merit badges qualify in those groups. I feel the system is broken, the current list is boring for many scouts and it emphasizes classrooms vs activities. Im not saying the below is perfect (from 1952) but it is much closer to where we should go vs where we are today Camping, Cooking, Firemanship, First Aid, Life Saving, Nature, Personal Fitness, Public Health, Safety, Swimming, one from the Outdoor Sport
    8 points
  28. Allow me to share a recent experience... I had avoided being an adult leader for many years, despite my natural tendency to answer the call. I really wanted to be a Scouter, but I wanted my kids to get the same benefits of Scouting that I did - namely the opportunity to interact with peers and adults outside my parent's eyes. When I finally volunteered recently it was like the floodgates opened. I'm slated to be the founding Scoutmaster for a Girl's troop that is linked to an established Boy's troop. But on top of that, I wanted to do everything that wasn't currently being done, be
    8 points
  29. @Gilwell_1919 I want to respond to this, but in the proper thread, which is this one. Let's be clear what Kosnoff has said. 1) He had stated that scouting should continue. He's repeated that over and over, but that scouting needs to continue WITHOUT BSA. 2) If you found an organization that had, for 100+ years, aided and abetted in the systematic sexual assault of children AND either a) did nothing or b) did not much, I think a reasonable reaction would be "this organization is so corrupt as to be unsalvagable. Start anew." That, to my ear, is Kosnoff's point. I am not saying
    8 points
  30. I would like to not lock the thread but we seem to be in a rut that we need to get out of before any progress can be made. Here are some observations that might help. First, human dignity is the cornerstone of the Bible. (yep, hang in there.) It is used to resolve conflicts. It is the goal of how to treat each other. The level of evil or sin is based on how much indignity one causes another. Shy of murder I can't think of anything more undignified then an adult chronically abusing a child. The main subject is child sexual abuse but we also heard about parental abuse yesterday. Next,
    8 points
  31. The following 2016 thesis submittal is really interesting. Interesting comments based on (starting page 28) Theissen polygon analysis of scouting membership data. Interesting figures start on page 28+. https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/24173/Hubbard_ku_0099M_15024_DATA_1.pdf?sequence=1 Obviously a pro-scouter. One sentence near the end is interesting and timely. "Scouting is not for everybody but for those who are active, the chief lessons are not discrimination, blind patriotism, or xenophobia; takeaways are self-reliance, critical thinking, the value of co
    8 points
  32. As an Eagle Scout, reading through this whole thread has been very disheartening. By way of introduction, I earned my Eagle Scout about fifteen years ago, and I still had enough time left to complete three Eagle Palms. I served variously as Senior Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, Patrol Leader, OA Representative, and eventually Vice Chapter Chief and Chapter Chief of my OA Chapter. As Chapter Chief, I helped oversee a yearly Chapter Conclave, sort of a swan song for my Scouting career as I aged out about six weeks later. I even co-taught a course at the University of Scou
    8 points
  33. If the BSA comes out of bankruptcy having managed to hold onto the Summit, while LC's lose their camps, there will be alot of upset local volunteers.
    8 points
  34. I would encourage everyone to not ask @ThenNow to rehash particular circumstances. They can be found by patiently browsing his posts. From what I read, they were far from legal. His claim would have been actionable had he been granted the resilience to act on it.
    8 points
  35. May not be a big deal to most people, but my kid was on bacon duty this weekend. He crossed over in March and wont hardly cook at home. We help staff a Cub Family Campout this weekend and the Boy Troop and Girl Troop were both there. I am usually helping the girls and let him go on his own with the boys. Mainly so he starts to learn to do without me always being there to help. In addition to bacon, he also scrambled eggs, and cooked two hamburgers.
    7 points
  36. I have mucho thoughts swirling, including whether the documentaries will help the cause of survivors or serve only to make someone (else) money off our backs. That question is really my greatest concern. I'll not go too deep into it now. Before I don't, I must say that survivors and their families are entitled to say whatever they want, provided it's true and accurate. What the filmmakers do with their words and presentations is on them. Woe unto...Will they be held to account for any grand misrepresentations or false implications regarding Scouting, I bet not. Salaciousness, if that's what th
    7 points
  37. 1. Pray, you will need it. Scouting is having a very challenging time, and some professionals are not willing to adapt. My current council is getting rid of my District Commissioner, because he is not "effective" serving units as we are not growing in membership and units. We are in the middle of bankruptcy, COs abandoning the program, and a pandemic. Need to focus on existing units that are in trouble, and not starting new units. 2. Listen to your unit leaders. Use those counseling skills learned in WB. 3. Multiply yourself by getting good UCs to help you. 4. DO NOT USE UNIT L
    7 points
  38. @RichardB I know better than to not follow the rules. So I do my best to keep up with BSA policies to the point that I have often had to tell my council's professional staff what is and is not allowed by BSA as they are not aware of the latest rules. My biggest problem is that BSA continues to break the first point of the Scout Law, Trustworthy, with the repeated lie in the FAQ found here https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ , that "Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting." As I have shared with you and others repeatedly THA
    7 points
  39. Fairness. The post that started this discussion asked whether the LC contributions were fair. There's real fair, and then there's bankruptcy court fair. I haven't seen anyone here express an opinion that real fair is achievable. Bankruptcy court fair is a different thing. The court is about money and nothing else. It is cold and emotionless. In a Chapter 11 case, provided the debtor can demonstrate its viability, the court will protect the debtor's right to emerge from bankruptcy and remain in existence. We, as a people, have created a mechanism that allows a debtor to go t
    7 points
  40. Ugh. Rather than reply to a particular post I’ll just put in on the thread. I’m an amateur at best when it comes to forums. first I’ll state again how I am much impressed with the level of maturity from the survivors responses here. Seeings how most of us are stunted in many ways and have had to fight to learn How to communicate on this topic. And survivors we are. There is no need to victim blame / shame either. We have done that to our selves for all the years that led up to this. Ohh… the things we have gone through on this road that was thrust upon us. From 15
    7 points
  41. The BSA would've been in it's current position regardless of what it did regarding membership policies. The bill for sexual abuse was going to come due regardless.
    7 points
  42. Let's hope that we don't have a group that wants to "re-imagine" the BSA and it's programs. The Cub movement toward heavily family oriented over the last 10 - 15 years was not getting in the droves of new members, adding females (not debating that) also did not result in massive new numbers. BSA needs to play to the strengths. Leadership, skills development, outdoor adventure. Get some ACTUAL marketing going on a LOCAL and NATIONAL level. Sell the program to the Youth with some selling to the parents. Show Youth doing things, going out and having FUN. Troops (can't speak for Cub
    7 points
  43. With respect to the the TCC $103B claim value estimate, it is probably conservative but it is also academic. The BSA's most valuable asset is the insurance. Some councils participated in its insurance program a year or a few prior to 1984 when the national BSA insurance program became mandatory for all councils. Some of the pre-1984 policies named the local councils, troops and camps as "additional insureds." Before the national insurance program was established LC's maintained their own separate insurance. Much less is known about those policies because the LC's have been unwilling or
    7 points
  44. Uh, no..... this is stealing the opportunity from the scouts to actually learn from doing the requirements for the merit badge. I am so tired of Merit badges that are just hand waved, Eagle projects that are just a bench, and positions of responsibilty where the scout doesn't actually do anything for six months. My scouts know that I am "a hard grader" but they also know that when I sign of on a requirement, they know it and are proud that they earned it. There are too many people that are awarded merit badges and ranks that they don't deserve.
    7 points
  45. Scouting was never intended to be family oriented. Scouting was intended to allow youth to develop themselves on their own. It was designed to replace the gangs of Victorian and Edwardian England, and give them a direction and purpose that would make them better citizens. I have seen first hand what can happen with "family Scouting." It is not pretty, and Scouts will leave. They will get fed up by the constant parental interruptions at meetings and on camp outs. They will get fed up with the parents overruling their decisions on their program. They will get fed up with parents allowing th
    7 points
  46. Here is an Excel plot (with no alterations except to add the title so I cannot be accused of manipulating the graph) of the last 30 years of claims that the TCC was discussing as being so terrible. Certainly, any occurrence of child abuse is too many but the trend is certainly dramatically decreasing. There have been over 2 million members during most of the time of this graph and those members were not static so that every year some join while others leave. Since I do not have actual tenure information, let us assume that the membership turns over every ten years (it is more frequent than
    7 points
  47. No medical professional or researcher would claim that ANY drug or vaccine is "100% SAFE". All risk is relative. We have risk factors and comorbidities. We have personally seen at least 5 friends and/or loved ones die from COVID. My wife is a cancer survivor. We have 2 close family members who are currently fighting stage 4 cancer. My son and his wife are "COVID deniers" and have been banned from several stores for refusing to wear masks. Our grandson was moved to a private school that did not enforce precautions, then had to close for 2 weeks when ALL of the teachers had positive tests.
    7 points
  48. IMHO it would also be a good time to rethink "Eagle required" merit badges - subject areas, number, difficulty...
    7 points
  49. One of the Scouting FB groups that had these requirements posted, took down the post and 153 (last time I looked) comments down and is asking folks to report anyone who does post them. Sounds Orwellian to me. I think that they did not like the negative feedback they were receivint about this MB. One poster pointed out that Disabilities Awareness covered a lot of the topics in DEI, yet it was never Eagle required. He stated it is purely a political MB in his opinion. And considering that the requirements have not been approved 11 days before go live and no MB pamphlets for this MB
    7 points
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