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Showing content with the highest reputation on 11/20/20 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    You just described the values of the Scout Oath and Law quite well. Maybe we should just stick to scouting. Barry
  2. 2 points
    Actually diversity and inclusion have been proven to not be effective with many global studies disproving this theory. I think the reason is that that these terms are too high level and allow someone to play with the meaning of diversity. Its easy to point to a specific use case where it does or does not work.
  3. 2 points
    No matter how you may feel on this, biggest challenge is this is the continuing move away from our CORE COMPETENCY. Is this "Fun with a Purpose"? I would say no and it does not add value to the program. I am not suggesting that the possible issue may be important to society, but there are many many issues that may be important to society. The BSA cannot be all things to all people. The more we try the more we wander aimlessly with each special interest group looking to "mold" the Scouting movement in America to what they "feel" is important and critical. Stick with the basics, focus on fun and outdoors, differentiate the Scouting movement in the market place. Drill down to the WHY kids join. This is like houses, not every house one builds may suit everyone. Deal with the reality and be good at what we do and narrow focus on that. Bending and moving to the winds of whatever is current will continue to kill the movement.
  4. 2 points
    PragerU or Prager University is NOT an academic institute and is nothing more than a very conservative mouth piece. It has been called out multiple times for stating opinions or propaganda as facts, although none are backed but any academic-level research. None of its research or writings meet the minimum academic standards.
  5. 2 points
    I get what you're saying - but why make an issue out of it? If someone wants me to stop leaving apples on my desk because they are sensitive to the implication of it, I'll be happy to take the apple off my desk. Yep, occasionally good people get inadvertently blamed - but it has a way or sorting itself out when others then can speak to your character on your behalf. I'm sure in your case others stood up and said that you were a great guy and had no ill intent at all. To me, it's about putting myself in other people's shoes. For a very long time in our country's history minorities had it very tough. Many would say that minorities still do. I'm happy to make some changes in my world and put in the effort to try and ameliorate that feeling. Further, if people who are feeling persecuted see others going out of their way to avoid that, then maybe, just maybe it will build some bridges. Seems like a pretty neighborly thing to do to me. To me, this is a good level of awareness for our scouts to obtain.
  6. 2 points
    Logic like this is part of the problem. YES, we've had racism...in the past. The past will never go away. We could completely eliminate racism and do absolutely everything that BLM, et al want...and it would still be there. I'm not saying the racism of the past won't go away. I'm saying the past will always have existed. A thousand years from now, the racism of the past will have still existed. We are among LEAST racist countries in the world. We are among the most racially diverse countries in the world Racism definitely still exists in the US, but it also is NOT socially tolerated. Even suspected racist acts are universally condemned. Free speech IS part of our country's core, so racism WILL always be visible and legally allowed within our country, but it isn't socially condoned. I will fight for the right of racists to speak their mind as much as I will fight for BLM, Black Panthers, Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, etc. Free speech is more important While I want to be inoffensive, there are some people who are looking to be offended and will go so far outside what is reasonable that their demands to be inoffensive are themselves offensive. Example: while in the military, I had a complaint filed about me because I had an apple on my desk. Apparently calling a Native American an "apple" is an insult...red on the outside, white on the inside. The member felt the daily fruit from my lunch was personally directed at him despite the fact he was NOT in my flight and NOT even in my unit (he just happened to regularly go through our unit). So, no, I'm not going to go THAT far out of my way to be inoffensive. Intent matters. Context matters. Things that are offensive to some are inoffensive to others. In our melting pot, we should talk about it and understand each others' intent OVER how offended someone may be.
  7. 2 points
    Taken to its extreme, it will not on disassemble youth organizations, but the institution of family itself.
  8. 2 points
    In the context of this lawsuit, the BSA isn't rotten, nor does it have a dark side. The organization has given society a program that only intends to build better citizens. It is that simple. People can be rotten and induce a dark side of themselves on unsuspecting innocent families, but that has nothing to do with the BSA or it's programs. If one can't see this reality, they likely need to get as far away as possible so as not to pollute the minds of the innocent. There is no doubt in my mind that if the good of scouting from it's beginning could be measured against the bad that occurred over the same time period, the minuscule bad would be impossible to measure against the vast enormity of the good. Barry
  9. 1 point
    *sigh* Yes. The BSA slash ScoutsUSA is/are in a bad way. Caught for not dealing with sexual predators, it is (we are ) reaping that harvest. By making the membership requirement effectively "Be a breathing human being between the ages of .... " I think we (they) have done the right thing. By tightening up the YP requirements, I think they (we ) have done the right thing. By complicating things by ADDING to our Promise and Law with this alledged Merit Badge, and the Churchill study ,it is being claimed that the Scouting Movement CANNOT accept the membership changes and must therefore be REQUIRED to find and sign up "diverse" youth, or be ashamed of ourselves. The PR is faulty. What kid wants to be REQUIRED to accept the kid next door BECAUSE she/he is NOT like them? The average kid wants to play ball or quoits or Monopoly with the other kid next door because they live next door! It worked for me growing up. When I was Drum Major for my HS band, my Assistant/apprentice was a young black lady. So? It might have been a "thing", but no body to my knowledge (to my knowledge !) mentioned it. I don't think things have devolved so much in the intervening 47 (!!) years. My home Troop has some Hindu Scouts, and I know the Patrol does it's very best to accommodate their religious dietary requirements. Go find and see "The Muddy Lions" and "Troop 759 of Harlem". Scouting works because all kids like the camping and hiking. The adults almost always muck it up. You will never please every demographic. You will never sign up every kid in a school. You will never please every parent, not even the ones who insist that their urchin will make Eagle "or no drivers license." Our Muslim/Black/Hispanic/Serbo-Croatian neighbors need to know how Scouting can benefit their kids, but there is no guarantee that any of them will ever join up. Stay tuned for the further adventures of "Mr. Scoutmaster " (Clifton Webb) .
  10. 1 point
    I'd be up for that. Modernize the Citizenship badges a bit and convert 4 to 3. I'd even be game to go from 4 to 2. One focused on citizenship in the nation, one focused on how to be a good citizen in your community.
  11. 1 point
    I think diversity and inclusion is important, but I don't think this should be a standalone badge. It should be rolled into a combined citizenship badge. There are now effectively 4 Eagle required badges on the topic of citizenship. Scouts by their nature as young people don't take a whole lot away from classroom style badges. Can you cite any of those studies? One of the issues with diversity and inclusion is that it means different things in different places. That's a function of societal make up and culture. For the purposes of this forum, and the BSA's badge, I'd imagine we are discussing diversity and inclusion in an American context.
  12. 1 point
    I never claimed they were an academic institute of any kind dismissing content as a "conservative mouthpiece" and "propaganda" without discussing substance effectively shows you aren't interested in discussing any points that conservatives have. Very convenient for discussions in which you want to dismiss all opposing views Indeed, they are stating opinions, but I don't see them stating such opinions as facts. I would HIGHLY dispute that "none are backed but any academic-level research". This speaker in particular, Jordan Peterson, is particularly noted for his highly researched materials/presentations. "None of its research or writings meet the minimum academic standards." I would dispute that, but they aren't an academic institution either, so...
  13. 1 point
    Diversity and Inclusion are not leadership qualities. Leadership qualities are decision-making, empathy, character, and integrity, to name a few. There is no "diversity" quality in an individual. Believing in and utilizing diversity and inclusion are very effective approaches or beliefs to lead and manage teams and organizations. They are not some left wing agenda item, but based on the idea that individuals have value, and their value is based on their past and experiences, such as how they were raised, education, etc, and that by bringing them in and developing them as effective members of a team, it creates increased likelihood of organizational success and spurs on innovation. If there is effective inclusion, there is no "rest of us", as inclusion would include you. In face, excluding you would be the opposite of inclusion. This is NOTHING like what JoeBob is saying, and I support nothing he said in that post..
  14. 1 point
    Has anyone heard of Scout reach? We have a couple units here in my council. One has their meetings in one of the roughest housing developments in our city. Not really sure how successful it is though... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoutreach Its hard for some to see the value of Scouting or how it can form their future for the better. Some people seek out sports for their child to be the next (insert top NBA & NFL players names here) and think that is their ticket to becoming successful. That is something that the BSA can't compete with, we are not flashy. That's a society thing and over the years we have seen some big falls from grace on some of those "role models" in sports. Sadly a lot of people think Scouting is nerdy and something for white kids who can't play sports. If people would see the long run value/benefits that their child can gain from the BSA vs the money and physical long term effects of competitive sports then you can sell them on it. My knees can tell you the price of being a catcher in softball for many years. Hope I don't get flamed for this: Personally I think this new badge is just a tactic to look "woke" and try and "save face". If you are truly living the Scout Oath and Law, you should not be having issues and stop any issues you see arising. The BSA needs to leave itself alone, it used to be a well respected and sought out program for America's youth. The watering down of requirements, pandering to small group of demographics and rising membership fees have not done nothing to strengthen the program at all. BSA likes to try to count their chickens before they have even laid the eggs. Focus on and rebuild what worked for over 75-90 of the first 110 years of the BSA(provided with the new YP in place!)
  15. 1 point
    This may be one of the most concerning things I have ever seen on this site. There are multiple studies, academic or business related, that illustrate the value and importance of diversity and inclusion. There are countless successful leadership philosophies the herald the importance of diversity and inclusion. Honestly, I think you have made up your mind and are not interested in anything actual proof of the values of diversity or inclusion to an organization, a leader, or to an individual.
  16. 1 point
    I've come to look at this as an area where awareness is a good thing. Our country is has a deep and long history of racism and went through many reprehensible periods in our past. Maybe someone looks around today and sees no racism where someone else sees lots of racism. Regardless, it helps us all to grow by being acutely aware of the feelings of others on topics of racism, diversity, and equality. We're all people who relate to other people. I'd rather understand better the feelings of those who might feel oppressed so that I can avoid contributing to that. Since I'm not trying to discriminate to start with, I'd much rather know how I am perceived and then be able to take actions to avoid inadvertently adding to the problem. I find this is why it is useful for youth to go through the same. Most youth I know really are pretty open minded and a little awareness is a good thing. So with that in mind, I'm all for taking little steps like this Now - there's another whole topic of whether there is too much "school" in Scouting. Yes, there clearly is too much school in Scouting. So that puts me on the fence on this MB. Yes, I think it's good for youth to learn about this topic and increase awareness. Yet I think we need more doing, less talking.
  17. 1 point
    Good question. IMHO, National hopes it is families as in Family Scouting. In reality, it is our local communities which we serve. All politics and scouting is local. Scouting will continue at the local level whether there is a National or 13 Colony Council organization or not. My $0.02,
  18. 1 point
    Just because you don't get out enough to see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
  19. 1 point
    Over 2 years ago, PragerU posted a video which warned of the dangers of the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion philosophy. https://www.prageru.com/video/dangerous-people-are-teaching-your-kids/ In short: "Diversity" doesn't mean "a wide ranging group of ideas". It means "increased influence by people more generally aligned with leftist ideals" (usually from groups that deem themselves "oppressed") "Equity" doesn't mean equal opportunity (a laudable goal!), but is instead a focus on equal outcomes, something NO society has EVER come close to achieving. Anything short of it is "evidence" of discriminatory bias; the choices that people make that cause most of these inequities (not all) are merely byproducts of more discrimination. "Inclusion" doesn't mean "be open to others joining your group". Instead it generally focuses on identity based quotas in order to achieve the aforementioned malformed concept of equity. Recently (yesterday?), BSA released a video regarding a new Merit Badge: the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Merit badge...if that doesn't raise a red flag, I'm not sure what does. https://vimeo.com/476454128?fbclid=IwAR2EfbOR-YLmhoDdKVztS0SpP73fJuEK49iua3_xiPJ7ps_VDDxcCDO4vYI I will grant you, they have NOT released the requirements for the MB, but the title and video content alone should be alarming. The video does nothing to dispel such alarm. This is an attempt to appease the leftists in our society. Appeasement NEVER works. They will only demand more. Despite claiming the material will be taught in an "apolitical manner", its title alone makes me question that assertion. Making such a hyperpolitical concept a REQUIREMENT for Eagle Scout Rank is more than absurd, it's pushing a political agenda. Unless this is a poorly phrased title and the video doesn't match the content of the Merit Badge (which doesn't appear likely), I call on all friends of Scouting to speak up and say "no" at your next Roundtable. This top-down directed Merit Badge is an attempt to usurp Councils/Units without input from the scouting community at large and dictate political correctness.
  20. 1 point
    Dark v-shaped flying things are hovering over Scouting. With all the changes, what is Scouting's political "base"?
  21. 1 point
    And to add...How do we compete with Boys & Girls Club and the Y which are serving the needs of these families, as much as possible, in the pandemic. What if families primarily want an inexpensive, after-school program and not a more expensive scouting program? Why are we the better choice? And why are we loosing our existing customer base...that fact does not help in extending our customer base. My $0.02,
  22. 1 point
    For “why”, you need to look at the source ... https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/, specifically, the signatories. This bypasses the usual MB process and comes from the top down. The CEO’s bio https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/01/28/getting-to-know-roger-c-mosby-the-new-president-and-ceo-of-the-boy-scouts-of-america/ explains: In the past decade, HR folks have benefited greatly from mandatory D&I. It stands to reason that if you put a person with that background at the top of your organization, this is the solution he will push down to every level he can.
  23. 1 point
    I'm not clear on why this is a merit badge. Surely the basic tenets of Scouting already incorporate these ideas. I suppose if one wants to explore them, fine, but I don't think it needs to be required for Eagle. American Cultures isn't required, but it is essentially a diversity merit badge.
  24. 0 points
    I can think of no better way to push away what remains of the old guard. Those of us who never bought into the concept that girls were required for the betterment of BOY scouts, are now being asked to support a hastily shammed up Eagle required merit badge that twists that knife. No one can prove that diversity and inclusion are strengths; they are buzzwords from the left. Now councils are supposed to be half female? Do the Girl Scouts' lawyers know that yet? Folks like me are changing our wills. Don't bother with an FOS request. A small bitter part of me hopes that the perv bankruptcy lawyers carve up BSA and bury it so that I can mourn and move on.
  25. -1 points
    Yes, the basic tenets of Scouting incorporate the ideas but they do not, in themselves, raise awareness of different kinds of diversity, and what equity and inclusion looks like for different groups or different circumstances. Our goal is to make "good human beings" and Eagle Scouts should be the best examples of this - so it seems like a really good life skill for Eagle Scouts to have had an introduction to DEI beyond what they might experience in their own little corner of the world.
  26. -1 points
    More importantly, since this initiative is overtly a response to BLM, youth membership quotas do not directly address misplaced attitudes of supremacy in America’s youth. To do that, one should provide youth with mentors from minorities and the opposite sex. Not because someone from that group would be particularly well versed in the subject. (They may not even hew to the expected rhetoric.) Rather, by having youth from majorities mentored on occasion by people of integrity from minority groups, those youth gain memories of positive interactions that may offset seeds of bias that would otherwise be planted.
  27. -1 points
  28. -1 points
    You are right, you never claimed that it was an academic institution. But Prager attempts to come off academic institution, which is obvious, based on its name. We find ourselves in an era of internet based "facts", and understanding the bias within the source of these facts is often just as important as the facts themselves. And PragerU has a very strong right leaning bias. That means it is not neutral in its statements or videos, but promoting a specific agenda. And in this case, it is against the ideas within diversity or inclusion. So much totneh point, that is has distorted the ideas behind these statements. - Jordan Peterson is noted for his research, if you are support the ideas that political correctness has gone too far. His ideas are not mainstream and he considers himself as a conservative. Again, know the source. You attribute the following to him: "Diversity" doesn't mean "a wide ranging group of ideas". It means "increased influence by people more generally aligned with leftist ideals" (usually from groups that deem themselves "oppressed"). This is not fact, it is 100% opinion and only supports the idea that including a wide ranging group of ideas is bad. And to be clear, I was calling out PragerU as a source and revealing its bias for anyone who may be unaware. I was not offering a counterpoint to any to its statements, no matter what I think of them. I will not convince you otherwise on a message board like this - its imporssible. All I can do it make sure that there is no doubt on the bias of the source.
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