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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/21/20 in all areas

  1. Well said.. I was observing a newly elected PLC of a half dozen PLs and SPL and ASPL. The Scoutmaster wanted them to rough out the next years schedule. They sat there WAITING (that was exactly what they were doing) for the SM to TELL them what to do, what to WANT to do. The SM made some suggestions, things the Troop had done in the past, new ideas he had heard from other Scouts... finally, the SPL said, "you mean I can make that decision ? ?" The SM spread out his hands and said "DUUUHHH ?"" the year eventually was planned and the Troop had some old and some new adventures. Before
    3 points
  2. The emphasized sentence concerns me greatly because if trained Scouters do not understand this, we are in deep trouble. YOUTH LED VIA THE PATROL METHOD IS THE FOUNDATION OF SCOUTING! (emphasis). The fun programs you mention and others: sports, 4-H, band, robotics, church groups, school, etc all have adults telling the kids what to do, how to do it, etc. Scouting is suppose to let the youth be in charge with adults guiding and mentoring. Youth make the decisions, do the planning and organizing, conduct the activities, etc. For many youth in Scouting, this the first time they ac
    2 points
  3. True. Other adult led programs are fun for kids. But there IS something magical about youth-led. That is it directly leads to the mission of Scouting. Without it, adults make the (majority of) decisions. Scouts cannot learn to make good decisions without having the opportunity to make any decisions. Scouting as youth-led and via the patrol method is the structure which allows scouts to make decisions (including bad ones) and learn from them all while having fun.
    2 points
  4. ... because some adults lose track of the "fun" part when running the program that they plan and lead. Kids may not want to grind away at a merit badge every single meeting at some advancement mill. You won't see many kids turning out for baseball who dislike baseball. unless dad is trying to live vicariously through his child. (which does happen - like the dad who never got Eagle, but his kid WILL!!) Kids mainly join Scouting to have fun with friends, not to "benefit from" an educational program to make them good citizens. The later sounds like school, which has become near year-round
    2 points
  5. if the adults are not trained properly, the "natural" thing they tend to do is be "helpful." " Here, let me help. You will burn that pancake [taking the flipper in hand]." Hence the counsel of my first Sm: "No one ever died of a burned flapjack." The primary job of a Scoutmaster, beyond insuring safety, is training the leaders to lead their patrols and troop. But if, the adults don't know where they are supposed to be going, the odds of getting lost are rather high. So the BSA deemphasis on adult training , including of lack of knowledge about the Scouting program themselves, i
    1 point
  6. I have often said (only semi-jokingly) that the demise of kids interpersonal and conflict resolution skills was organized sports. Organized sports have pushed down to the youngest ages and subsumed all sportsplay activities. Prior kids would play kickball, or tag or or street hockey in their neighborhood. They made up games too. When the inevitable conflict, you're out/safe, arose there was no adult making the call and the kids had to figure out a resolution. The most common was "do over". Kids didn't just make this up, they learned that from the older kid who learned from other older kids yea
    1 point
  7. Or to add the insurance companies and their policy limits to this suit.
    1 point
  8. @Eagle94-A1 is a the Scoutmaster I would have killed for (metaphorically) when I was a Scout. Just gets it. @ParkMan you've described the problem really well, many adults don't understand it, and they either waffle between two extremes, stepping in and "fixing" things just so the Scouts have something to do and then never stop "fixing" and start developing or teaching the youth how to do it themselves. Or they take a hands off approach and it's Lord of the Flies, 21st century addition. Ideally the patrol method allows the Scouts to "make their own fun." This fufills both the purpose of teach
    1 point
  9. I believe you're hitting on some core questions about what is Scouting and why is it the program that it is. If we go back the core idea "game with a purpose", then we need to define what our purpose is. Today the purpose is captured in the aims of Scouting and the game is captured in the methods of Scouting. I think it's fine to take a big step back and ask ourselves: is our purpose correct for today? is our game still correct to best achieve the purpose today? Where I think you have to be careful is when you start thinking of just the fun and focusing only on the fun out o
    1 point
  10. GREAT QUESTION! The reason why 'Youth Led" keeps coming up in Scouting is because it is the heart of Scouting, yet it is not fully practiced, and in some units embraced. And as @TAHAWK points out, BSA has not had a true explanation of the Patrol Method in the literature and training for a very long time. You would have to look at William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's work to get a true understanding, and his last handbook and training material was from my youth. Is it any wonder folks will say their troop is "youth led" when in reality it is not? And to be honest, while I say my tro
    1 point
  11. Thanks for clarifying. I see what you are saying. One of the unique characteristics that I have noticed about the Scouting community is that we have volunteers who work at all kinds of levels of abstraction. Scoutmasters/ASMs/Cubmasters/den Leaders who work directly with kids. Committee members who focus on mechanics often more than they do working with kids. District and council volunteers whose roles requires them to focus more on supporting unit leaders than they do on directly working with youth. I, for example, am a long time pack & troop volunteer who recognized that our di
    1 point
  12. You say potato, I say potato. That's a distinction without a difference. If the new standard for youth organizations is an organized YPT program, a monitoring and compliance system backed by professionals, and enough liability insurance to protect from lawsuits, then many organizations who have some youth programming today should follow the lead of the NMRA. Youth sports leagues, youth groups, 4H, FFA, smaller Scouting groups, etc. should be prepared to all organize BSA quality YPT programs and maintain hundreds of millions in liability insurance. How a local town rec league will do th
    1 point
  13. There are plenty of youth programs that are fun for youth without youth running the program and that are very popular and youth can't wait to participate in them. Sports, robotics, 4-H, etc., etc. There is nothing magical about youth led. In scouting, I think it helps make a sometimes tedious program more enjoyable for youth when we let the youth have more free rein and they truly do learn something if they are able to try to figure out the process themselves. However, the whole advancement system is an adult originated structure. Kids didn't come up with that. When you let them do what they w
    1 point
  14. If Scouting is not "fun" for youth, it is dead. So who is actually asking the youth what is "fun" to them? BSA didn't ask before the disastrous "Improved Scouting Program." Any youth here? Adult planning is sure to result in program that adults sincerely THINK is "fun." The Patrol Method has the youth decide what they will do in Scouting, subject to considerations of safety and law. Back before BSA misplaced Scouting, it was thought that youth planning, with adults only serving as resources, was more likely to result in "fun" to youth than adult planning. When I was i
    1 point
  15. Multiple times throughout this thread I have pointed out that scouting needs to be fun -- a game with a purpose. That fun has to be relevant for younger generations coming up though. Lotta people here seem to get their jam from doing things their way and holding on to old grievances. Every other youth organization I'm involved with is worried more about keeping and serving the kids than clinging to traditions. I don't hear or see this kind of talk anywhere but in scouts.
    1 point
  16. You are on the tail end of fall migration. Have each scout bring bins and look for Bald Eagles. They migrate into November. Lot of hawks still overhead too. Depending on where you are a lot of water birds are also showing up to overwinter. I've just started seeing wood ducks, common mergansers, black ducks, bufflehead, etc. If you are camping near a water source, might see something interesting. Bins can be used again at night to check out whatever is up there. There are apps and sites that can tell you what you can look for depending on what nights you are out. Watching the ISS go by o
    1 point
  17. 1 point
  18. most of our focus is on how to work on cooking. With the advancement and Cooking MBs requirements, have not totally broken the code on group cooking.
    1 point
  19. Everything can be politicized. Everything has been politicized. That's not a slight on Scouting as much as it is a reflection of modern America
    1 point
  20. Here's a quote from the Moderator Policy "When a discussion deteriorates into a stagnant endurance contest, a moderator may interject that both sides "Agree to Disagree" and instruct that discussion move on or the moderator may lock the topic pending review." We agree to disagree and move on? Or should I lock topic? @John-in-KC @MattR
    1 point
  21. Don't get me started on adult interference and PLCs. Worst PLC I ever attended started off on the wrong foot, when one adult said a separate meeting night isn't needed for the PLC and their Annual Planning Meeting, it could be done in 30-45 minutes. SPL not only didn't get a separate meeting, having to cram it into 35 minutes before a troop meeting, but the adults starting jumping in and canceling ideas before the PLC even discussed them. SPL got so fed up, he basically sat back and let the adults in the room run it. And trying to stop them and get the SPL back in charge was impossible to do.
    0 points
  22. As the BSA lawsuit grows, I fear the fall out with other organizations' youth outreach programs. Not sure if this was already mentioned, but NMRA is dropping its youth outreach programs. My son has loved and continues to love model railroading. There were locally sponsored youth groups plus fun events at our local model railroading convention (kits to build for youth, junior engineering program). That is now all ending due to litigation risk. If the BSA, with all of their overhead in terms of background checks & training cannot prevent lawsuits and bankruptcy, what youth serving orga
    0 points
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