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As the time that a vote total approaches, I encourage everyone to repeat the Scout Oath and Law several times to remind us how to treat one another. There are victims here who wish for the plan to fail. If it does, they will be pleased and if not, they will be very unhappy. Scouters wish for them to be compensated as they deserve some level of compensation. Also, this list is for Scouters interested in bettering Scouting. Many of us have been on these forums for many years. Though they want victims to be compensated, many (most ?) feel that the present plan is a good compromise.

I don't think anyone said that. What they said is that we shouldn't just do weekly meetings and eliminate the outdoor program. Honestly, scouting without an outdoor program is not scouting ... its school. So why continue? Risk management is not eliminating all risks. It is mitigating them while still ensuring the program/process/product can continue. My son downhill skis. Yes, he can die. He could get seriously injured. He wears safety equipment and skis within his ability ... but there is still the risk. The ski club makes me sign a wavier to tell me of the risks. My

This is Doug Kennedy, a member of the TCC. First, I want to thank all of you for your comments over the past 18 months. Your comments and those in other forums, whether I disagree with them or not, have helped inform me as I work to represent all Survivors. As many of you know, the Coalition has made some statements both in the hearing yesterday and in a press release this morning. I find them horrible and the rest of the TCC does as well. Tonight is a TCC Town Hall and I invite you to attend so that you can hear directly how we feel about several issues. As well, we are going to hold mo

The SCOUTER.com virtual campfire has been lighting our community now for more than 25 years. It's hard for me to imagine that so much time has passed, and the thousands of Scouts and Scouters around the world that have learned and shared together. These are obviously incredibly trying times for Scouting and enormous transition for the organization. But I have always believed that the very best of Scouting was at the grassroots, found in the mentoring relationship of a leader and young Scout, honed on cold winter campouts and sharpened by the lessons of leadership and service. And these fo

I have been reading this blog for months and finally decided to express how I feel about this plan. I have always and continue to believe there are thousands of fraudulent sexual abuse claims filed in this bankruptcy. I also believe there are thousand of legitimate abuse claims that have not been filed. I am frankly disgusted by the lawyers of the Coalition and more specifically those of AIS. The coalition and the “supposed non organization” (AIS) actively recruited “victims” without, in my opinion, any legitimate vetting. My attorneys required a vast amount of evidence, which I provided,

The bankruptcy discussion is depressing me. So I have need to focus of good news, like last night. While I have been involved in Scouting as a Scouter for almost 30 years now, and have worked with I don't know how many Scouts over the years, last night was special. I sat on an EBOR for a Scout who was in my first Tiger Cub den back in the day. He is the second one in my den to make Eagle (the first being my oldest), and having watched him grow up I am really proud of him. Especially with the challenges at home he faced. This is a young man who will go far in life.

Forums work well in many ways, but it is probably not the best way to discuss the difficult feelings of this bankruptcy while also discussing the impact to child sex abuse survivors. However, there are not a lot of avenues for this discussion so as long as it remains scoutlike it can continue. That said, I do ask everyone to be patient with each other and not necessarily jump on a single word or phrase as a line of attack. Again, if we were sitting in person, it would be easier to read tone or intent in messaging. Forums are a bit unartful to communicate emotion. I really don't b

What is legally right is not always morally right.

One mentor of mine never had children of his own. He came back from WWII, and the troop he grew up in needed a SM, and he filled the role. He served as SM of the troop until Uncle Sam called him to Korea. Came back from Korea, and resumed SM job because everyone wanted 'Sarge" back. Stayed on for over 20 years. Even then he worked summer camp until health started failing him. Man who made the biggest impact on me, more than may father, was my SM. He was the role model for me growing up, and my role model now as SM. He also never had children of his own. HIs nephew's troop needed an SM,

A friend contacted me privately, concerned I've not been posting. He knows I am on all the hearings and was checking in on me. Honestly, Eagle1993 does such an excellent job I had little to add. My attempts at comic relief are often not well received (by some) and get shut down. Literally. Last time, I crashed the internet with an incouous though highly relevant observation about the repetitiveness of the presentations and arguments. We shall see what happens this time as I attempt to be serious. For the first day in, let's say, 787 days I feel nothing. I hear nothing. I have nothing to resear

I want need to thank you. By speaking up here, you have put a (virtual) face on the issue. By sharing some of the stories of your abuse, you have made it feel real in ways that "numbers" can't. By opening up about the struggles you have faced as a result of the abuse, you have exposed raw truths which many of us have probably never even considered. I am terribly sorry it happened to you. But I am grateful you are here. now. at the virtual campfire. with other scouters. I have learned a lot from you. I especially want to say these things to @ThenNow. You have given me a lot to t

A few months ago, one of the posters here offered some great advice I thought. Type what you intend to say. Set it aside for a few minutes and look at it again before you press "post". Does it really say what I intend for it to say? Does it come across as respectful to the readers? We are in a challenging and painful environment. For some of the posters here, Scouting represents the start of a lifelong nightmare which has been brought once again to the surface. For others, Scouting has been a wonderful, life changing experience full of friendships and good memories. And an im

Great - another sit in a class and try to stay awake merit badge. Boy Scouts, in order to differentiate the program in the market place, needs to be action and activity oriented, not more schooling. News flash, there is a ton of sit in class stuff available to youth these days. As has been noted, better solution would have been to work some changes in to the EXISTING Citizenship MB's and move on

Taking over? Sounds like it already took over for you. Ask your wife. I know of many people that got in too deep, never said no, got burned out and then got angry. They left scouts, never to help out again and are bitter as well. To be honest, I've seen this often enough that I've come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the program. It takes too many adults to make it work.

After over 4 years of working in the field, today was my last day as a Professional Scouter. It's been an incredible ride, but it's time for me to move on and start the next chapter in my life. Thank you to everyone on this forum over the past years who helped me grow as a Pro. If you ever have any questions about Professional side of Scouting, or "the Dark Side", please don't hesitate to reach out. Volunteers are some of the kindest, most selfless people you will ever meet in this world. It was truly an honor to serve them, and I will miss working with them dearly.

So I have been given a lot of awards in scouting. More knots than allowed on a uniform, never thought much about them and kinda blew them off. Well tonight at our Bridge of Honor, I was awarded the Unit Leader Award of Merit. The thing that makes this stand out to me is that I was nominated and recommended for the award by my scouts. That makes it special to me.

Thank you all for the input. We spoke with the camp and they will make sure that troops follow the proper procedure and that no one will have sole use over any portion of the facilities.

Maybe just a moment to take a break in the discussion and upvote or downvote @RememberSchiff for his diligent and faithful monitoring of this site, and all the delightful and informative Scouting news and insights he brings to us. "Diligent" is how I think of his effort. (AND, moderators, all upvotes should be attributed to @RememberSchiffand downvotes attributed to me.) Thanks all.

Poppycock. The legal system found BSA with it's huge insurance and property assets liable. In the same context, the parents, police, schools and the rest of society covered up too. The issue is legally tying liability to all the other conspirators. This was looting for legal profit.

I just wanted to say happy father's day to all the Survivors who tried and have tried their best, for so long, to be the best father they could be. The secrets you kept to protect the partners in your life you cared about, how hard you tried to protect your own children, and the hard work to not let anyone know what you were battling are all the stuff to be proud of even when you feel like you could have done more. Chin up.

By the way, you also don't need an adult present when Scout skills are learned for advancement. Get those adults out of those groups, registered or not, and let the Scouts teach the skills. Let the older Scouts sign the younger Scouts off on the requirements. Only then does an adult need to be involved.

I've already mentioned this elsewhere but I'd chuck all of the advancement and turn the program into playing outdoors. Then, the cubscout handbook is nothing but ideas on how to play outdoors. The den leader handbook would be ideas how to play outdoors, safely. It's something nearly every kid would want to do. No schedules, no requirements. Pinewood derby is fine, as is kick the can. If the scouts want to do arts and crafts or go to the fire station, that's fine. And there's no need to keep track of how they played in order to give them bling because that's the definition of playing. The

I'm geographically separated from my family and my Pack for work. I'm home for a couple of weeks and got to attend our Pack Meeting tonight. I asked the COR to come so we can go over rechartering. She's also the Chapter Advisor for our OA chapter. I noticed she was wearing her sash which struck me as odd, but I figured she must have either come from some function I wasn't tracking. She got up in front of the Pack - I figured she was going to make some announcement about recharter or some other COR business. She then called me up and told everyone how much of a role I had played in the ch

Omni created a new docket for the appeals here: Consolidated Appeals of Confirmation Order Lengthy scheduling order is here: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/e4a87bc5-4d56-40e5-bff6-4bcc044476c2_22.pdf TL;DR on scheduling order - look for briefs from plan opponents by Monday Nov. 7. Response brief of Debtors (and maybe other plan supporters) on Dec. 7. Replies on Dec. 21. Oral argument date TBD.

One key difference between BSA and virtually any other youth program that heavily utilizes volunteers is that the BSA tries to keep theirs even once the volunteer's children are no longer involved. As a result, a uniform that serves as something of a badge of service has more value than it would if you were just using parents as volunteers for the length of their child's participation. It also helps newer Scouters gauge the value of input from more experienced Scouters. Not that it's foolproof by any means, but at least if someone has been around long enough to earn 4+ knots, you know t

Thanks for mentioning that. Probably a good time for me to pop back up. I just want to say thanks to everyone who participates on this and other forums (Fora?). I take my role on the TCC seriously and try to take in opinions on all sides. Like you, the TCC is waiting on the Judge's ruling and anything I'd say about that, or anyone else would say, is pure speculation. As well, while this is ongoing the handcuffs of "Mediation Confidentiality" prohibit my saying too much about the process. I'm grateful to have participated in the confirmation hearing at the beginning and offer some final w

I want to apologize for me cussing in my comment last week.I let my anger take control of my response.Please accept my apology.I don't want Scouts to shutdown.Even though I was abused I've seen a lot of good in the Scouts.My scoutmaster God rest his soul was by far the greatest scoutmaster a kid could ask for.I learned a lot from him.I guess my anger flared up when someone said how we want to only talk about the bad well we do.Most victims have been carrying this heavy load for a very long time by ourselves. And speaking for only me, Im 50 years old and I'm finally strong enough to share my st

Dr. Doug Kennedy made an impassioned speech to the court and asked the Judge to keep her focus on the survivors as she makes her decision(s). Jessica Lauria thanks the court for the time devoted. A few more letters/filings will come in on the docket including minor changes to the plan (coming in next week). Next Friday will be a general hearing and the only topic is the sale of the BSA distribution center. Judge thanks all of the staff that made this so smooth. Hearing was pulled off very well and great teamwork between firms. February 2020 until mid April 2022. Matter is un

Tonight was my last AOL Den Meeting. Scouts have 1 or 2 requirements here and there to complete, but all are essentially done. They are going to start attending Troop Meetings and getting to know the Scouts there. I started with Tigers 4 1/2 years ago. I have 3 Tigers left from that original group that are going to crossover.

This is a huge topic, but I agree that a complete review is required. My bio, resume, or whatever it is, on my profile, many positions held for 5 to 15 years simultaneously, I have had extensive experience as a scout, camp and Philmont Ranger Staff (one year responsible for the training of the entire Ranger staff), observing, teaching, and mentoring scouts, my three sons included. I have noted a tremendous diminution in the outdoor skills learned, or that are required to be learned, by scouts. And that few to none have actually mastered them. There is much to be said for requir

One of the minor problems I have with this badge, which is the same issue I have with the disability badge, is the requirement to find and talk with someone who is disabled or, in this case, different from you. This kind of turns different scouts, as it does with disabled scouts, into unwitting and perhaps in some cases unwilling "specimens" for investigation to get a badge. We've all had scout who are pretty zealous in their pursuit of knocking off a merit badge requirement. I hope counselors for this badge will talk about tact when seeking out someone to talk to. Not every disabled kid wants

Scouter.com is not well liked by National and believe me, while we are all scouters, we have various opinions of BSA. I think if BSA fails, we will help build up a new scouting organization. If you want to know what national thinks of scouter.com just read this article .. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/boy-scouts-confusion-about-girls-in-boy-scouts#.pfl5BBjVE We do our best to allow topics to be discussed without editing/censorship. You will find that this forum is much more open than reddit/bsa or reddit/boyscouts or any BSA facebook group. However, there are ti

@CynicalScouter Thanks from me and frankly, surely everyone, for tracking on the status of National's bankruptcy pleadings, and the procedural steps, past and pending, in the Bankruptcy case. And your commentary thereon. It is no small task to monitor, summarize, and report on the significance of pleadings filed. Your efforts surely enable many non-lawyers to meaningfully follow along on a largely otherwise indecipherable process. Thank you.

The mental fallout from my abuse was mostly dormant prior to the current lawsuit. It would still torment me in idle moments. Or at night sometimes when I lay in bed trying not to blame myself after so many years for something I didn’t even understand at age 11. After I signed onto the lawsuit I began to scavenge info from the web, constantly looking for updates. It became almost an obsession. Thats how I found this forum. The dialog here calms me to a degree. Perhaps being among birds of a feather, both as a survivor and as a former Scout. Please don’t lock the thread. It’s a va

This framing drives me crazy. BSA isn't being sued because BSA has money, BSA is being sued because BSA DID SOMETHING WRONG! That has been the finding of virtually every judge and jury that has heard these cases: BSA knew or should have known that pedophiles were using its program to access victims. BSA's failures, to act, to watch, to look, to enforce rules, etc. were the reason its members, volunteer and professional, were able to sexually assault children --- for decades. BSA DID SOMETHING WRONG AS AN ORGANIZATION! That's why they were sued AND LOST, over and over again. If BSA had

This has been debated previously and there are differing opinions. That said, organizations are responsible for both paid staff and volunteers. If an organization was so poorly run and organized to allow volunteers to repeatedly rape children, I do think that organization should be held accountable. In addition, there is evidence that BSA intentionally covered this up. While I understand society changed over time (background checks didn't exist in the past) I really struggle with the cover up that seemed to be occurring at national. BSA could have decided to fight this in court, but t

I was inducted into the Order of the Arrow back in the 1960's. I was a part of our chapter ceremonies team for years. I was a chapter chief and an advisor. I have been a Vigil Honor member for more than 50 years. Over the years I have seen a change in how the YOUTH perceive the use of Native American culture in the OA. I hear all the time about chapters and lodges who have difficulty fielding ceremonies teams, and when listening to the YOUTH who decline when asked to participate one of the most common things I hear is that they are amazed that we still dress up and play Indian. Many of t

I suppose if a NCAP advance team had seen this cache of water guns, the US contingent would have stayed state-side. https://25wsjnewsroom.imweb.me/74/?idx=15972542&bmode=view

Yes, I am glad of it. As for survivors, our "moving on" means reprocessing our claims for the Settlement Trustee, undergoing the scrutiny process, arguing our case if need be, and waiting many months or years for the envelope that could be wee Lilliputian size. Don't forget about us. Fortunately, we will have YP representation from tip to tail and a Youth Protection Committee perpetually at the table. There is more than a little solace in that knowledge but recompense is not unimportant to many (most?) of us.

This is an issue that the Lodge Advisors should have recognized and remedied. The "Buddy System" is not just for swimming.

I just finished reading Bates' report. Now I have a headache. It's well-written, but a bunch of spin. So we're too old to deserve a decent settlement? While I get the sol issue, if a suit is valid, there's no telling what a jury would do. My abuser was a BSA employee who signed my merit badge card. So there's not much question as to BSA liability. If they reduce my claim by 90% for sol, then scale it down because I'm old, I just don't know why I'm bothering. Maybe they could add a couple of additional minus-scaling factors and I will owe the BSA. But the concept of this being

Looking through the changes, I think BSA avoided controversy which is fine. I really question why we couldn't just add or change a few requirements in Citizenship in the Community and call it a day.

No one here, except members who are claimants, have any part of deciding anything in this bankruptcy. Let's drop the personal criticism of others who express in a scoutlike way their differing opinions. Thanks, RS @gpurlee@T2Eagle @Eagle1993 @MattR@elitts

I person like the 1952 to 1965 stent where you found your own path outside the first 10. In addition you can make sure there is a diverse skill set earned and only some merit badges qualify in those groups. I feel the system is broken, the current list is boring for many scouts and it emphasizes classrooms vs activities. Im not saying the below is perfect (from 1952) but it is much closer to where we should go vs where we are today Camping, Cooking, Firemanship, First Aid, Life Saving, Nature, Personal Fitness, Public Health, Safety, Swimming, one from the Outdoor Sport

Allow me to share a recent experience... I had avoided being an adult leader for many years, despite my natural tendency to answer the call. I really wanted to be a Scouter, but I wanted my kids to get the same benefits of Scouting that I did - namely the opportunity to interact with peers and adults outside my parent's eyes. When I finally volunteered recently it was like the floodgates opened. I'm slated to be the founding Scoutmaster for a Girl's troop that is linked to an established Boy's troop. But on top of that, I wanted to do everything that wasn't currently being done, be

@Gilwell_1919 I want to respond to this, but in the proper thread, which is this one. Let's be clear what Kosnoff has said. 1) He had stated that scouting should continue. He's repeated that over and over, but that scouting needs to continue WITHOUT BSA. 2) If you found an organization that had, for 100+ years, aided and abetted in the systematic sexual assault of children AND either a) did nothing or b) did not much, I think a reasonable reaction would be "this organization is so corrupt as to be unsalvagable. Start anew." That, to my ear, is Kosnoff's point. I am not saying

I would like to not lock the thread but we seem to be in a rut that we need to get out of before any progress can be made. Here are some observations that might help. First, human dignity is the cornerstone of the Bible. (yep, hang in there.) It is used to resolve conflicts. It is the goal of how to treat each other. The level of evil or sin is based on how much indignity one causes another. Shy of murder I can't think of anything more undignified then an adult chronically abusing a child. The main subject is child sexual abuse but we also heard about parental abuse yesterday. Next,

The following 2016 thesis submittal is really interesting. Interesting comments based on (starting page 28) Theissen polygon analysis of scouting membership data. Interesting figures start on page 28+. https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/24173/Hubbard_ku_0099M_15024_DATA_1.pdf?sequence=1 Obviously a pro-scouter. One sentence near the end is interesting and timely. "Scouting is not for everybody but for those who are active, the chief lessons are not discrimination, blind patriotism, or xenophobia; takeaways are self-reliance, critical thinking, the value of co

If the BSA comes out of bankruptcy having managed to hold onto the Summit, while LC's lose their camps, there will be alot of upset local volunteers.

I have major issues with BSA actively entering the political arena. By mentioning B. Taylor, they have gone way beyond selling war bonds and into anti-police propaganda. That is something that they can't take back. I don't think that scouts should actively engage in any social issues. That's not our role. We should be role models for society through our actions, not our words. I don't like forced anything - it reeks of insincerity. If your troop/pack is open to anyone who wants to join up and participate in this organization, then that's all that should be required. We are probably one